What do you think of this power cord?
I tried one of their "Ref" power cords. Overall quality looked good, the male end that plugs into outlet was nice and tight but the equipment side was not tight at all. It sagged and felt like it could almost just fall off the amp. It did sound nice on my old class A amp though, didn't hear any difference on my current Mac integrated. |
One thing I should tell you is that my house was built in the mid-50’s and had the two prong outlets without the opening for the ground. When an electrician was doing some other work, I asked him about getting grounding receptacles in place of the original ones, so that I wouldn’t need to use those adapters. He told me that it would be expensive to re-wire the house but that I could still install the three prong receptacles if he replaced the existing circuit breakers with appropriate breakers. Thus, I wouldn’t have grounded outlets but it would be legal and safe to do it that way. So we did. Thus, I do not actually have grounded outlets. A new dedicated 20A line will be a nice improvement. Especially if you DIY which is very easy to do.Either way make sure it is just one line that goes direct to one outlet for the system. Use a multiple gang outlet box so you have at least four plugs on the wall. That way you can run your two Furman strips and still have wall outlets to plug a few critical things in direct. Yes the new line will be modern standards with ground. Because of this you will want to be sure everything connected to your system is plugged into this one line and nothing else. Otherwise you are very likely to get ground loop hum. If you have an electrician install this do not let him talk you into adding any other outlets or making any connections to this line. One 20A line direct from the panel to your system outlet is all you want. |
Bob, I see the unenlightened out in full force telling you that power cables are a waste of money and to go eat ice cream! Power cables do make a difference and although I have not heard them, Audio Envy get great reviews. Consider a used cable to get something better for the same price. If you can DIY then that's best value of all. I have Oyaide Black Mamba V2 which is stunning and feel it can compete with some big $$$ cables. https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/20028465790?iid=142383656227&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid... If you shop around you can find cheaper than this. I bought a 3M piece and cut in half to make 2 cables. I used different IEC plugs on the amplifier end and found that they sounded different. So using the same piece of cable I got different results. Not only do the cables sound different, so do the connectors. Anybody telling you otherwise has either not tried a good cable, has a poorly resolving system, as in bad or has substandard hearing. @cakyol, which category do you fit? |
Let’s add one more brand with inexpensive cables that look fine, are reasonably flexible, and come in different lengths. I would second that, bought 3 Zu Mission power cables on their eBay promo auctions , price/performance is just ridiculous, it is well under $100. ( And what’s funny 2m lengths are often go cheaper than 1m, even though they are preferable sound wise). They are pretty neutral, good at freq extremes and midrange is nicely clean, good bass also. Quite universal cables. In my system I preferred them to Cardas, Chord and Mark Grant cords that I used before. If you want to upgrade a stock cord, it’s a no brainer. |
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I made my way to the breaker box in my garage (whew!). The breaker for the room where my stereo system is located is a 15 amp breaker. Most of the outlets in my house are on 15 amp breakers. One thing I should tell you is that my house was built in the mid-50’s and had the two prong outlets without the opening for the ground. When an electrician was doing some other work, I asked him about getting grounding receptacles in place of the original ones, so that I wouldn’t need to use those adapters. He told me that it would be expensive to re-wire the house but that I could still install the three prong receptacles if he replaced the existing circuit breakers with appropriate breakers. Thus, I wouldn’t have grounded outlets but it would be legal and safe to do it that way. So we did. Thus, I do not actually have grounded outlets. Neither do I have a power conditioner. I have two Furman power strips that all my equipment, including a large TV, are plugged into. Every spot on the strips is in use and I could use more. I could check to see how expensive it would be to have two dedicated outlets installed, if that would help given my current situation. My understanding is that the dedicated outlets could be grounded, right? |
Maze Audio REF4 is a very good power cord in terms of materials, design and build quality, making it a very good value. It is comparable to cords costing four times as much. The reason? Buying directly from the manufacturer. And it will get you at least 2/3 of the way toward the sound quality of the “insanely expensive” cables such Shunyata. I use both in my system. I also like the Signal Cables Silver Reference ($250 with upgraded Furutech connectors.) That one replaced the PS Audio AC-12 power cord that costs $1,000. |
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You didn't mention whether or not you have a power conditioner. I had a very slight hum/buzz with the volume turned up and nothing playing until I got a power conditioner and the noise vanished. It also provides protection form spikes, like lightning hits. I'd recommend one, and as far as a power cord goes, I think $100-150 is right. According to the cable company, the longer the power cord, the better (opposite of interconnects and speaker cables), but don't make loops out of excess cord as that creates a magnetic field. Try to keep cables from touching each other, especially if running parallel. I have entry level signal, gutwire and wire world, and they're fine. Just make sure it is flexible. My signal one is thick and hard to maneuver. |
Cleeds - Nonsense. The current rating of any appliance is the current rating. I don’t care if you’re talking about a refrigerator, furnace, or audio amplifier. An audio amplifier is typically spec’d to include current draw at idle and maximum power. Good morning, I completely agree. Current ratings on labels for items sold in US have plenty of safety factor built in. True, there is a relationship between speaker load/impedance/frequencies. But you are not going to trip breakers or start fires based on the music you play - well, maybe some music might :). Bottom line, if the device came from manufacture with a standard NEMA 5-15 plug (assuming legal/approved US product), it will not exceed 15A period (probably much less). I have seen too many amps that claim a gazillion watts times 7 channels and still run all day on standard 15A outlet. The math does not add up. Manufactures often exaggerate wattage ratings but the ratings on the labels are more realistic and verified by third parties. Happy Listening! |
As I said previously, please read some more books about amps, especially when the speaker load drops to 1 or 2 ohms of impedance at certain frequencies. Here is some very basic education to start with: https://geoffthegreygeek.com/speaker-impedance-changes-amplifier-power/ All this is for over-engineering and increasing the safety margins so you can sleep better at nite :) |
cakyol Please read a bit more about amps, dynamic & transient loadsPlease feel free to share any documentation to support your claim that appliances have current requirements in excess of that defined by the manufacturer. That appliances have "dynamic and transient loads" is a given and doesn’t support your claim. Please feel free to share any measurements you have made that also confirm your claim; if you choose do do that, please identify the appliance so that we can attempt to duplicate your measurements. These are very easy measurements to make. Are you familiar with the NEC? IEEE? OSHA? It amazes me how quickly and loudly some will argue about things that are easily measured. There’s no reason to dispute this stuff. <SMH> |
cakyol Huh? The back panel measurement is done with a 1khz STEADY sine wave signal ...Nonsense. The current rating of any appliance is the current rating. I don’t care if you’re talking about a refrigerator, furnace, or audio amplifier. An audio amplifier is typically spec’d to include current draw at idle and maximum power. You cannot accurately determine an amplifier’s current requirement by using calculations involving solely its audio output in watts and your rules-of-thumb. And why bother? The info you need is almost always on the back panel, the user manual and the spec sheet. |
cleeds, That is why the factor of 2.5 was mentioned.... to account for differences in the class of the amplifier and more as described below: The back panel measurement is done with a 1khz STEADY sine wave signal. The REALITY is that with music, especially if you happen to be listening with max power on, the dynamic passages may require a lot more power. In addition, the speaker load impedance is not constant. With different frequencies, it may sometimes drop down to as low as 1 or 2 ohms, in which case a LOT more power is drawn than mentioned on the back panel. The safety factor of 2.5 takes into account all those situations. I just did not want to go into all the detail but it seems like some people need the explanations. |
cakyol How much power does your amp require ? Add up the wattage of all channels (in case you have a multichannel amp) of your amp, multiply that by 2.5 to account for losses and very dynamic music passages and the peak power requirement, and that is how much power you need to draw from your mains outlet. Divide that by your mains rms voltage (typically 120 in the US) and that is roughly your current requirement.That's a pretty silly exercise. To determine the power an amplifier requires, just look at its back panel or spec sheet, where its current draw will be listed. The correlation between actual current draw and audio output in watts is dependent on the amplifier's class of operation. |
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Grounding is a safety consideration. Do what the manufacturer and the NEC recommend regarding grounding. Your electric power runs miles over aluminum wire. At your house it changes to copper. Normal builder grade copper Romex - anywhere from a few feet to a hundred or more depending on the distance from the panel. A 20 amp circuit will be 12 gauge. A 15 amp circuit will be 14 gauge. Unless you installed a dedicated circuit, there are other power users on the circuit with your sound equipment. However large your power cable is, the IEC320 connector on the end of it, and thus the cable too, is only rated for 15 amps no matter how large the wire. From there, your plan is to change the last three feet of this long series LC circuit at great expense and expect to make an improvement in sound quality that increases in relation to how much you spend. Think about it. |
@amadeus888: That is another question — the Audio Envy OE p3 cable is grounded, while the OE p2 cable is not grounded. The site states that one cable should be grounded and the rest not grounded. I’ve not read that about any other cable. What do you make of that? If you have more than one such cable, do you follow this advice? |
I have Audio Envy OE powercord. I compared it with AQ Blizzard for the esoteric k07xs sacd player. Tue Audio envy Is far superior.All the cables(speaker and interconnect cable) have the same character. Details, natural. neutral and fluid. But the cables need 200 hours burn in as minimum. Before 200 hours you perceive the details but very bright and fatigueing sound. After the cable become very natural.I guess that it isn good for the very cold and analitical equipment.They destroyed the PAD Aqoueos rca and audioquest volcano in my system. |
Ok, so my amp is rated at 400 watts when playing thru my 4 ohm speakers. So double that is 800, and 2.5 times that is 2000. Max current requirement is 2000/120 = approx. 16.6 amps. Not sure what amps that circuit is on (can’t get to it easily due to junk in garage), but I haven’t blown anything yet. Of course, I have other equipment on that line too. I seldom listen to music loud; more to relax and enjoy. So 12 AWG is fine for power cord? |
Hi bob540, How much power does your amp require ? Add up the wattage of all channels (in case you have a multichannel amp) of your amp, multiply that by 2.5 to account for losses and very dynamic music passages and the peak power requirement, and that is how much power you need to draw from your mains outlet. Divide that by your mains rms voltage (typically 120 in the US) and that is roughly your current requirement. For example, if you have a stereo amp with 300 Watts RMS per channel from a 120 Volt supply: - your power requirement is (300 + 300) x 2.5 = 1500 watts. - your max current requirement is 1500 /120 = 12.5 amps. to be on the safe side, say 13 amps. Most houses are wired with 15 or 20 amp max Romex mains cable, which will most likely be 12 gauge ( https://www.cerrowire.com/products/resources/tables-calculators/ampacity-charts/ ) So ANY multistrand pure copper wire <= 12 gauge would work. In fact, at the 60 Hz mains frequency, even a solid wire would be much more than acceptable but a multistrand cable will bend more easily and be flexible. THE BOTTOM LINE IS, YOU DO NOT NEED ANY FANCY CABLES FOR POWER. ANY fully copper cable 12 and lower gauge will work more than satisfactorily. Having said the above, if your amp is more of a welding machine than an audio amp (power requirement > 2000 watts), then you have to think of using 220/240 volt mains anyway, in which case, all the calculations will have to be remade. So save your money. DO NOT spend too much on power cords and maybe even speaker cables. Where you should spend your cable money is on properly SHIELDED cables on your phono stages and ANALOG low level signal stages. Also, just like power cords, you do NOT need to spend money on DIGITAL (HDMI, ethernet) cables either as long as they are within the speed specs, they do not bring any benefit, it is all snake oil. As "turnbown" also very importantly indicated above, make sure whatever you re buying is UL certified unless you want to make your insurance company happy for not having to pay you for the fire which you may cause. |
Among other things, the weak point of most power cables/connections is heat dissipation. We do FLIR (infrared imaging) test of cables in burn-in and here are some images:
https://www.onfilter.com/cable-temperature We use pretty good industrial-grade cables, yet even they "shine" when it comes to a couple of hours under nominal current. |
When it comes to gauges, I am not sure how it goes. Zu describes their cheaper cables as 9/13/13 and most expensive ones as 9/9/9 and gives other measurements (resistance, etc.). Signal Cable says 10 and that is it. On the picture, they look very similar in size. Speaking of end-game equipment, Zu lists "Life Expectancy: 100 years+" Can you beat it? |
bob540, Let’s add one more brand with inexpensive cables that look fine, are reasonably flexible, and come in different lengths. https://www.zuaudio.com/cable?category=Power They do sell on eBay via auction. It is them, not somebody else selling their cables. Their offers on eBay get regularly updated so, if you do not see what interests you today, check it out in a day or two. https://www.ebay.com/sch/zu_promos/m.html?item=363074552303&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 |
@bob540 - You might want to include Signal Cable on your short list. The MagicPower PC is 10AWG and at $79 (3ft) is a bargain. Many happy users. http://signalcable.com/magicpower.html |
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@cakyol: I am interested in your comments regarding wire gage. I was thinking that 10 gauge would be superior somehow to higher gauges, and even the inexpensive Maze cable I asked about is 10 gauge. Then I took twoleftears’ advice and checked Cullen and Audio Envy. Cullen has a Crossover model that is less than $200 but is only 12 gauge. They have 10 gauge cables, Crossover II, but they are twice as expensive. If, as you say, 12 gauge is fine, I could buy a couple of the 9 gauge cables and could spend less than $400. Carbonmiller, those Synergist cables you recommended are good, I’m sure, but I’m not looking to spend thousands of dollars on a PC. Audio Envy might make good cables, but there was something about their site that didn’t seem as professional . . the wording and such. |
Other than aesthetics, I doubt they offer anything else that a simple standard copper cable cannot provide. 10 gauge is an overkill and does not make sense on a 120 Volt circuit since it is able to carry about 45 amps but your typical household outlet and panel fuse will only allow up to about 20 amps. If you have an amp with about 1000 WRMS/channel, then maybe you may need such a wire. But then again, such amps are typically wired to a 240 Volt circuit. |
I can't speak the the "Eden Series" from Maze Audio but I am trying out the "Ref 4 Krell Cryo" power cords in my system. I have 3 in place right now: 1) between my Bryston MPS2 power supply and my Bryston BIT-15 power conditioner, and 2) between the wall and my BIT-15 power conditioner. I have a 3rd that will go from either the wall to my Bryston 4B2 power amplifier or from the BIT-15 to my Bryston 4B2. I have been listening intently in the evenings and trying to imagine if I can detect much sonic difference. I would say that there is a definite difference compared to the stock power cords. I do feel that the increase in detail is immediately noticeable but that with repeated listening things simmer down and the detail and the quietness and smoothness balance out better over time. The woven construction with the brown jacketing, combined with the polished silver of the Krell plugs is pretty great looking. For what you pay, I am not disappointed. I don't have much experience with other aftermarket power cords, just my subjective recollection of changes in sound quality compared with stock. |
