What define "musicality" ? And what constitute "musicality" in audio ?

JIm, your words are running a little ahead of you. Difficult to read.

Did clearthink hijack your account?

Thanks Blindjim and Inna and Jtcf, for your remarks or experience...

mahgister

Musicality is realistic texture and timbre in passages that engages the listener. Musicality in the Audio gear makes the engagement (event) happen.  Very good information and points of view as above.

Happy Listening!

Jafant thanks...But I have a question, at which step of your audio history do you gain that " musicality" experience in your audio system and why? What are the factors that makes possible this "musicality" experience audiowisely speaking ?

When I first came to Audiogon I asked if there was a glossary of some sort with terms used to describe sound and music. I think it was member david_ten who provided this link.

This is a very handy and very extensive resource:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sounds-audio-glossary-glossary

As for the O.P.s' original query...

Apart from any testing, graphs, specs, etc.

Group consensus....but I'm just voice in the wilder mess...;)

Musicality is a mirage, a spectre, a chimera, an illusion. There is no standard for musicality. And there is no ideal for musicality, just like there’s no ideal for sound quality. Everything is relative. As Bob Dylan says at the end of all his songs, good luck. 🤗

Three points:

 

First: In the words of Jeff Foxworthy…”You know might have a musical system if….” This is where things get hung up…..so…

 

Second : What defines musicality…is a lot like defining great pizza or great wine…it is in the eye, mouth, ear of the beholder.

 

Third: And now a possible real world definition….you turn on the music and you listen…and never once did your brain try to cut in and tell you all of the things that might be better…such as…”hmmm, I wonder if a Be tweeter would make that trumpet sound better”.

So, if you are able to just listen and enjoy, then just maybe you have a musical system....and the rest of the descriptions and definitions don't matter.

Geoff,you sound like an old men saying that this or that is an illusion...For sure "musicality" is a metaphor for some experience that is relative like an "horizon"...

I am just curious to the history and methods,or purchase, of people here in an audio forum, about this experience that is an horizon toward with all we navigate...Sometimes someone shout "terra" "Terra" and the goal is relatively reached, with this person and his boat(audio grid)… I dont sail anymore now, I am on my island, I have shouted "terra", and I dont think to buy another boat...

By the way, I read about your "peebles" on cable some years ago, that inspire my experiments with stones...And that work, and I dont mock you like stupid people who dont experiment and dont have open mind...That work really on my cable and that was a step toward this experience of "musicality"... Thanks for your inspiration...

But now Geoff you said to me that,no, I am not in India but in America, my goal was an illusion in this travel...Perhaps I am wrong, I am not in India,but I love America,the New India, and for me this great feeling of discovery I called it metaphorically "musicality" or " the new India"... My illusion is my treasure old man...The "terra" was in sight in the end...You know it only if you buy a ship and go for the travel...Thanks Geoff, for some equipment you give to me  along the sail...
geoffkait14,271 posts

03-12-2019 4:05pmMusicality is a mirage, a spectre, a chimera, an illusion. There is no standard for musicality. And there is no ideal for musicality, just like there’s no ideal for sound quality. Everything is relative. As Bob Dylan says at the end of all his songs, good luck. 🤗

snapsc149 posts

So, if you are able to just listen and enjoy, then just maybe you have a musical system....and the rest of the descriptions and definitions don't matter.

And yes I have "musicality" now, I listen to all my files with the same forgetting of the sound, particularly those files I was listen to no more because of their bad  sound...Their sound was most of the times not so bad, it was my system that was not able to give me some basic rendrering of them... Now I listen without changing the files by boredom, or hate, or indifference most of the times... A good system makes what is good, very  good, and what is bad better... For me this is "musicality" gain in my audio system... I am only interested by your history in audio, your way to gain that experience of "musicality" and the reason why you gain it finally, even if it is a relatively hard concept to define, a metaphor, that experience exist for each of us in different modes, or versions, or occasions... Thanks for you interest, understanding and participation...

I agree with Geoff. Saying a system has 'musicality' is like saying a steak or cup of coffee has flavor. On the one hand it states the obvious and on the other hand it doesn't convey any useful information. 

And again, if everyone has their own definition of it then it can only really serve to confuse things.

  N80, I perfectly know that there is no definition perfectly clear of God nor "musicality"...

But I am here to learn and listen to your own story about that experience... For example in your case how luck or inheritance transform a life without music with a life  with music and a relative "musicality"...

I perfectly know that this term is a metaphor... The experience is not, "God" is a metaphor, living "musicality" also, in the 2 cases, real experience are possible and sometimes real but always  relative to each of us... 

I am fond of your story with "musicality"... I enjoy learning...Especially your evaluation and the reasons behind that "musicality" experience in your own life with your own audio system...

I think it also has to be recognized that for many, the joy is the search for musicality... the journey.... and maybe not the ultimate destination. 


For  those that have the money and time... the fun may be trying new equipment... achieving new sounds and maybe even sharing their journey. 

You are right Snapsc, the joy was the sailing...the journey... But I dont have the money to try many equipment... And I was craving for listening my music, the music I know sometimes for 50 years, but with real quality sound...

Without money, with  some wise purchase, and with my own experiments, and some device of my own design, I had it now; and I dont feel frustrate now when I listen my music because I cannot afford the new gear I read about... Then the joy is perhaps not only the journey but touching the goal in some extent, especially without too much money...

Because I am curious I want to listen your own history about this journey and the means you use for touching the goal (relatively for sure)… 
Thanks and my best to you.. 

Alot of audiophiles listen to the equipment and that's ok. Some of us use the equipment to listen to the music. That's better. My grandfather had a single speaker radio that he listened to everyday. He knew more about music than most people could ever dream of. I remember when I was a kid at Papa's house the music was always on. It was a house that was always musical. I miss those days..and him. Musical is a very subjective term. Enjoy it when it happens as it's a joy denied to many. DH

Great post! Dickhertz,thanks my best to you...

Well it is all about music so no surprises there.

One could spend their time listening to sound effects I suppose if they really want to focus on other things..

I think one can learn a lot about sound and perhaps even which direction to go by listening to certain “sound effects” and using them as a tool. You know, things like thunderstorms, rain hitting pavement, audience applause on live recordings, the glissando on guitar or harp, vocal artifacts like breathing and smacking of lips, movie soundtracks like Apocalypse Now!, which as a plethora of well-recorded spoken words and “sound effects.” There are some Pink Floyd albums that can be used to evaluate system sound quality, too, obviously.

Nothing better for reference to determine accuracy of sound reproduction than naturally occurring sounds one is very familiar with already. 

You never can be sure where recorded music has been prior to reaching your ears.

Does a a rooster crow or thunderstorm sound better with tubes?

Last weekend I ran a live show for an astonishingly great string quartet that was astonishingly great. They all used mics they'd brought...tiny condensers...miking violins is always tricky, but these little mikes worked swimmingly and man...astonishingly great (did I mention that?), and they felt the sound was natural and excellent, which I need to hear for my fragile ego...you can make the case for live music played by great musicians to display musicality, as why else would they show up? I'll tell you why...MONEY....

Answer to mapman’s question - everything sounds better with tubes. Especially water sounds, applause, train sounds, voices, helicopters, guitars, violins. Perhaps surprising to many Sony Walkman CD players sound like tubes, at least my hopped up ones do. 

I really think that natural sound and piano are real test of how natural and musical sound an audio system... But a big classical orchestra is one of a test... 

I knew a guy who for 50 years  used only applause as his guide and he could  make your system sing . I tried to learn his method but it was beyond me .

For me musicality = a strong emotional response to what I'm listening to.  As example the first track on Satchmo plays King Oliver. St. James Infirmary, played on a the right system, gives me goosebumps.   If I hear it on the radio - it's just good music.  A good system is able to deliver more, of the right sounds, that our brains decode, that results in an emotive response.  

When I encounter a great piece of architecture, I just start dancing...it's actually pretty easy.

Making me tap my feet, move my body, dance, eyes water up or overwhelm me with unexpected emotion is a good sign.

Very grateful for words of wisdom a seasoned "audiophile" shared with me some 30 odd years ago I'll always remember:

Judge gear in my rig (or the rig) by how it compels me to listen.

I should feel "I want to or can't wait to turn the system on". Like an itch I can't help but scratch lol.

Someone mentioned food being tasty. I've cooked in quantity (like 20 servings) that did not seem to stand out in taste but leftovers were gone in 2-3 days. I looked forward to eating leftovers. What *did* stand out was noticing I enjoyed and ate the rest of it cold.

I made the same dish other times and although it seemed tasty at first, the leftovers stayed untouched in the fridge for almost a week so I had to keep reminding myself to eat it before it went bad.

Just my observations that tells me something must be "righteous", though I'd be hard pressed to nail down what that is sometimes.

@n80. Thank you.

I view musicality as puffery. It is like saying authentic Italian food or best pizza. 

Very interesting story stray_cat,it is like my own story....I discover that I enjoy that quality the day I listen less to the sound and more to the music...It takes me some years of  experiments and purchase....My best to you...