DIRE STRAITS - BROTHERS IN ARMS
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Another recommendation for an album with great sound is Suzanne Vega "Solitude Standing" (A&M SP 5136). I bought it on cassette in 1987 and hadn't heard it for many years. Since finding a vinyl copy on discogs it has become a regular wife-annoyer (she objects if she hears the same thing twice in a month). Remarkable sound. |
I recently read about the TB and the hospital stay. It said that he wrote over 40 songs while there. I don't know why I didn't know any of this stuff way back when. You'd think it would have been big news but it was also a time when my life was moving very quickly and I didn't pay much attention to things around me. I do plan to give MBJ another chance. I hope to have all of his different original albums at some point. I often find that things I used to like, I now wonder why and things that I didn't like seem OK or good. Funny how that goes. Kind of like the Joni Mitchell albums. I probably had them for over 50 years and don't remember listening to them before recently. Two of them were really good. This has been an adventure and a big pleasure for me as well. Many thanks to you and all who had input. Great stuff. |
I totally get what you are saying about Mona Bone Jakon. But since you are obviously a huge Cat Steven's fan. I would encourage you to give it another listen. After being near death from tuberculosis when he was admitted to the hospital and his two year absence from the music scene, while struggling to recover. What we see is a new Cat Stevens appear. The "spiritual" Cat Stevens. He had spent that time contemplating his life and death and what was the important things in life. And what emerged from that experience was the birth of the Cat Stevens that was to come. He managed to get released from his current record label, and also managed to get signed by Island. Who promised to let him do whatever he wanted in whatever manner that he wanted. Mona Bone Jakon, was the first album of that rebirth. He no longer desired to be a teenage pop star. The songs on MBJ are sometimes not developed totally. But, there are some great songs. "Trouble", "My Lady D'Abanville", "Maybe You're Right", "Fill My Eyes". As Joni Mitchell said about her album "Blue". I must say about MBJ. I don't believe that there is an insincere note on the album. He was gaining his footing as a serious songwriter with serious things to say. And he would go on to release TFTT within the same year. MBJ represents a rebirth of the Cat Stevens that would take the world by storm. I encourage you, as a serious Cat Stevens fan. Invest in a CD at least, and give it another listen. There is some gold to be found in its simplicity. And it should be given a spot in your collection. If for no other reason than to make his transition complete. From one Cat Steven's fan to another. Just my humble opinion. This has been a pleasure for me. Thank you. |
Some great info. Thanks. Now, I have more to look for. I do not have Mona Bone Jakon. I think I had it on 8 track or possibly cassette ages ago but it is no longer in my collection. It was not a favorite of mine, as I recall or I would have replaced it long ago. My other favorites would be Catch Bull at Four and Buddha and the Chocolate Box. I just picked up an Island copy of Catch Bull at Four and look forward to comparing it to my A&M copy. Others that I have are The World of Cat Stevens on Decca. Very Young and Early Songs on Deram/London Matthew & Son two album set on Deram/London Cat Stevens Greatest Hits on red vinyl A&M Teaser and The Firecat on Island, two copies Catch Bull at Four A&M and now an Island copy Back to Earth promotional copy A&M Buddha And The Chocolate Box A&M Izitso on A&M Numbers on A&M 7 copies of TFTT, Island original pink label, Island pink rim, Island German blue label, two A&M copies and the off-center re-issue from Universal and the A&M dbx copy. I think that's it but often adding more. I'm going to have to check the other albums to see if I find any similar issues. Most are A&M but I always thought they were well done. Have more to compare now so will be interesting. I've certainly learned a great deal on this subject. Thanks for all the info. |
@billpete Interesting! So this problem was widespread throughout the world! So we seem to know this much. 1) The original Pink Label UK releases were done correctly. Which would explain why Cat Stevens and the producer, Paul Samwell-Smith didn't catch the issue. They would have heard the initial UK releases. Which were fine. I doubt that they would have been concerned about worldwide distribution, and would have left that up to Island Records. They moved onto other projects. 2) The original A&M releases were faulty. A&M would have handled all of North America distribution and also the original Japanese pressings were distributed through A&M and released with A&M labels. So there is a good chance that they are faulty. 3) The problem in the UK seems to have began with the reissues on Pink Rim Island recordings. They would have more than likely made new pressing plates for the reissue. Which seems to be the standard for reissues. 4) We now know that the German Blue label suffered the same fate. It appears to be one of a plethora of German reissues with varying labels throughout the years. It does not have a date for the reissue. But it appears that it was a much later reissue. The original German 1970 release was issued with the Pink Label. The same as the UK release. It would be interesting to know if that first German release was done correctly. 5) In 1980, Mobile Fidelity released a 1/2 speed remaster, and in 1982 released it as a more expensive MFQR release. We haven't any information as to whether those remasters were done correctly. However, they definitely would have used the original master tape. They would have been purely analog remasters. Since digital did not exist in the technology at that time. 6) Then we jump ahead to The 2008 Island "Back to Black" Remasters. They would most likely have been remastered from the original master tape. There is no way of knowing if digital processing was used. However, they do not suffer from the same problem. And sound great when compared to my A&M first pressing. 7) And then of course. There is the 2011 Analog Productions. Which is when this issue was brought to light. At the time. Analog Productions had just built a brand new state-of-art analog remastering facility. Especially designed for remastering analog from the original masters without the use of any digital processing. To launch their new product and label. They chose TFTT as their first remaster. Since it was such a well recorded and beloved classic. They made a deal with Island Records for a limited release distribution. And were supplied with the original master tape. They even have a photo of the tape included with a description of the process as an included insert. Needless to say. They discovered the improperly decoded issue that plagued other recordings. And chose to do it correctly. They even decided to use the original Pink Island Label. And they sound fantastic! 8) Then we come to the 2020 remasters that Yusuf/Cat Stevens was personally involved in. They do not suffer from the issue. This improper decoding issue seems to have been on an enormous scale. And have had an enormous impact worldwide. It was a colossal F%#%Up, to put it mildly. I am curious if you have an original release Island copy of "Mona Bone Jakon"? It didn't do well at the time of its release. But riding on the heals of the enormous success of TFTT. The demand increased. And a reissue of the album was released. I believe that my A&M release of MBJ suffers from the same issues that my A&M TFTT does. I have nothing but the 2020 remasters that are streaming on Qobuz to compare it to. And they are being streamed at 44.1k/16 bit. If you should have a couple of different pressings of MBJ. Would be willing to take a listen and see if you can hear the same issues with those pressings? I am curious. And if, by any wild chance, you should have access to the 1980 Mobile Fidelity remasters of TFTT. I would like to know how they compare. What an interesting discovery. Thanks for all of the information that you have provided.
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OK, so I got to hear the German Island pressing of TFTT. It is solid blue label, not pink. One side has a dark blue label and other side has a light blue one, kind of odd. It has the same issues as the pink rim Island. Loss of detail. The solid pink label Island is the best I've heard yet. The collection is probably not complete yet. Crazy how that can be but there are others that I'd like to hear. It is rather amazing how many versions there can be of a given album. Into the hundreds. This has been a great learning experience for me. Thanks to all. |
Chris Thanks, that's pretty interesting. That song is the first on Side B of the record that I have. It's different than the other Opus 3's, in that the jacket is rough paper, not glossy like the others. The recordings are very revealing of a live performance. They don't seem to miss anything. I appreciate that. Bill |
@billpete yeah, the self titled album is their first. |
@billpete Falling Further In is their second recording. You have to order the newest cd directly from the band via Bandcamp. https://octoberproject.bandcamp.com/album/the-ghost-of-childhood-2
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The pink label is the best that I have. The next best is the pink rim Island but it shares some of the same characteristics as the A&M's. It's as if it's a version of the A&M's but done better, if that makes any sense. Any Island records that I have are always better in some ways than their US releases. I always thought it was the best but only because I never heard what it could or should sound like. If @bdp24 hadn't brought it to my attention, I'd never have noticed as I had nothing better to compare it to. If my 180g had a properly centered hole, I might have found it to be better than the A&M's, as these reissues were "touted" to be. This has been a real learing experience for me and I've picked up a number of things to add to the collection. |
@billpete The first two albums feature Mary Fahl as the lead singer. She went solo after that. They are both excellent albums. Their newest album, The Ghost of Childhood, have two ladies singing. Very different, but really excellent. You can stream it on Qobuz. I had to buy the cd direct from the band via Bandcamp. It's a signed copy. |
@billpete Thank you for letting me know about the pink label copy. That is good to hear! So here are my findings. I ordered a 1st pressing A&M copy. It has the same issues. So, at least, with the A&M USA releases. I believe that @bdp24 is entirely correct. They reek of incorrect Dolby A decoding of an unencoded tape. The moment that he brought it to my attention I could hear it. I can't speak to the Pink Rim copies since I have never heard one. The copy that they are streaming on Qobuz had to come from A&M because it has the same problems. I also purchased the 2008 Island "Back to Black" 180g remastered. Whatever issue happened with A&M releases. Did not happen with this remaster. It was like hearing the album for first time. The attack of the drums and the pick of the guitar. The vocals. The piano. Everything opened up. I can't tell you how it compares to the original Pink Label UK release. But it sounds awesome in my book. Since all I have to compare it to is the A&M abomination that was released onto the world. Now, following in your footsteps of never having enough. I could not help myself. I had to hear the Analog Productions 45 rpm 200g remasters. So I reached down deep in my pocket and purchased a pristine copy. It was a bit disconcerting at first, when I heard the space and detail that is this pressing reveals. But once I wrapped my head around it. It is absolutely stunning! There are details that I have never heard. It also has such a transparent background that I can't tell that the stylus is on the record in the silence. It will be hard to beat this. As good as I thought that the 2008 Island remaster was. This is far superior. Unfortunately, I don't have the 33-1/3 rpm version to compare it to. But I bet that it sounds really good as well. I had my eye on that German Pink Label. I would be interested to know what it sounds like. One question for you. Would you say that your Pink Rim copy sounds closer to you A&M copy or to your Pink Label copy. I am trying to determine if the Pink Rim copies suffered from the same fate as the A&M copies did. |
@billpete Test Record Number One? Yes, it's in Swedish, but he sound is universal. Many years ago I was in contact with Therese Juel, and she sent me her translation of the lyrics:
I had to doctor her English a bit, as her original made no sense to me.
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I've been doing similarly. Sorting into groups that I am likely to listen to, those that I will never listen to and so on. The biggest part of the collection is probably ones that I used to listen to but grew tired of, or that have too much noise etc. I still need to trim the listening room group since many are duplicates. I have ones that I listen to and others that are just part of the collection and have been replaced by better copies. I keep finding more "audiophile copes" that I wish I'd never bought as they miss half of the music, compared to an original. There was a period when I though these new 180g and 200g copies were better but more times than not, they are not at all. I did listen to my Opus 3 records. I appreciate the recordings but it's an odd mix of music. Some I like and some, not so much. One is all in Swedish, female vocalist. My grandparents would probably have appreciated it as they would understand it. :) They are really good recordings. |
I finally got to hear the pink label Island copy of TFTT. I think it's safe to say that it is the best version that I have and I now have about 7 copies in 6 versions. Still waiting for a German pressed Island copy. Maybe that will be enough. :) At any rate, the details are more clear on this pink label copy than they are on my others. It is very easy to hear the pick and the plucking of guitar strings. The dynamics are also stronger, drums more real, making the listening experience a more "live" feel. His voice seemed to be quite well done in every version and is on this as well. I'll have to direct compare with some other copies over time but I am very pleased with this copy. Was also very clean, only one pop on side one, hopefully a speck that I can clean away, otherwise it is easily a NM copy. If you ever find a pink label copy, I'd encourage you to pick it up if you can. The clarity and the dynamics do stand out more so than the rest of them, making it a nice addition to the collection. I also picked up the Matthew and Son double album. Have not heard it yet. |
When I make changes to the system I just play all the music I love to listen to, and much of it isn't boutique audiophile reissues or anything like that. A lot of it is jazz and classical and early music records from the 70s I have listened to for decades. Some of it is more recent reissues (Tone Poets, AP reissues, etc) that I also pull out. |
Great story. You must have been the talk of every airport you went through. :) Quite a trip. Doubt I'll find the Benjamin Britten LP in my collection but you never know. I still have my father in law's collection to look through. I gleaned the important stuff on first glance "The Crepitation Contest", can be enjoyed on even the most modest of systems. :) He actually had a fair amount of mostly classical, maybe 200-300 or so. Still boxed up from moving to Missouri 12 years ago. I've taken notice of KEF Reference speakers as they have about the same range as my AR9's. Being newer, they are likely to do it better but I don't know. I did a search to find full range speakers that matched or exceeded the original Teledyne AR9's. It's a small crowd and the prices usually range from slightly above 10k to 300k. Out of my league. KEF 107 and R107's can be had (used) for less than 2k. They might be a consideration if I ever decide to move from the AR's. They are now on my radar. There is a pair on ebay right now that I would have to think about if I hadn't already spent so much in the last month or two............and I'd like my wife to stay. :) I have to research this exotic piano. 108 keys? I've never heard of such a thing. Not doubting you, I'm just surprised to hear of such a thing. I had a square grand that only had 66 keys. It was very ornate but sonically not so good. I used to sit across from a Steinway concert grand every Sunday when I was a kid. My dad played the pipe organ and a woman played the Steinway. They were both very good and I'll never forget the sound of either. I also lived in my grandfather's farmhouse with my wife after we were first married, mid 70's. He had a self contained pipe organ in the house, also an upright piano that he hand built. I didn't play well but played some. I wish I'd taken it more seriously when I was a kid. Hated piano lessons because of the childish crap we had to play. I wanted to play classical music. Too short sighted to learn the basics. |
The latest Stuart and Sons 108-note concert grand piano also hits a very low 16-Hz - see Audiogon Discussion Forum on pianos! As far as I know, there is no technical reason why CDs should not go very subsonic - close to 0-Hz. |
I took a vinyl copy of the Telarc 1812 when I auditioned the Holbo turntable! Almost all my vinyl pre-dates CDs, and I have a few dbx companded records which I can no longer play because my dbx capable player got stolen, together with everything else just before I did a round-world business trip. I listened to Quad speakers in LA and Salt Lake City, then visited Peter Walker of Quad in the UK who told me he thought classical CDs were brilliant. I bought Quad pre-amp, amp and ESL 63 speakers in the UK and an early Philips CD player in Singapore, plus every CD that I could find. I went through Australian customs with the amp in my suitcase, the pre-amp in my briefcase and declared the CD player. The customs officer invited his mates over, and as they opened the box, about 50 CDs fell out. It was the first CD player they had seen. No worries, mate, enjoy! I had to ship the speakers, and there was plenty of weight available, so my dad gave me his old Garrard 301 which I have just started to restore, hence I am buying selected vinyl again. (Wollongong City Library had a huge selection of classical records which they lent for free so not much need to buy any in my good old days). There is one Decca (London?) vinyl recording which I would use for auditioning, if I could get one at a reasonable price. It is Benjamin Britten's recording of his Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra which dates back to Decca's heyday around 1963. It has never been out of the catalog, at least in its digital form. Under 20 minutes long, it covers every instrumental section, until subsiding to almost inaudible triangle tickles then rising to a crescendo of complex cross rhythms. A serious critic has said it is his favourite piece of classical music, to boot! It is the only piece of music I needed to play when considering purchasing my KEF Reference 1 speakers - my dealer had it already queued up on his streamer! |
Most of my classical collection is made up of very old records (50's 60's and 70's) and a few cds. I would pick them up at garage sales and thrift stores, looking for certain labels, artists and conductors whose name I recognized. I was amazed at how many perfect copies and even sealed copies of very old records that I would find. I found that quite a few even very old recordings could actually be very good. Most of my newer stuff will be Telarc, Crystal Clear or any other D2D that I could find. Quite a lot of Deutsche Gramaphon too RCA had several different types, dynagroove and red label maybe were their premium ones? RCA probably ruled back in the 50's and 60's. Columbia was around but their recordings were not very good. Look at an old Columbia and the grooves all look identical and thin, zero dynamics. Look at the Telarc 1812 Overture and you can literally see the cannon blasts. Can be tricky to track. EMI can be very good and some are EMI/Angel, also can be good. London Phase 4 and London ffrr are both good. Decca also. I'm not a real classical aficionado like yourself but I grew up listening to it and have a fair collection of classical LP's that I listen to from time to time. The bulk of what I collected in classical was organ music, pipe organ that is and Virgil Fox is my favorite organist. Pipe organ is excellent to test your stereo system. No other single instrument even comes close in the range of what it can do and nothing plays deeper bass other than possibly some modern digital synthesizer. Theoretically, I suppose digital can reach lower than anything but the lowest I've ever heard (felt) recorded was 16hz from a pipe organ. I don't think my speakers can quite get there but they do reach 18hz and that's pretty close. Cd's cut off at 20hz, still very low but not quite as low as some vinyl. No idea about what streaming can do, possibly no limit? I don't know. Sorry to ramble. |
Going through old classical part of my collection. I came across a 3 record set on Vanguard Op. 3 from 1964. Says L'ESTRO ARMONICO Op.3 Vivaldi with Chamber Orchestra of The Vienna State Opera, Mario Rossi conductor. Not sure where I got it but probably a thrift store find. The records are very stiff like old 78's. They do say LP so I guess they are 33rpm? Each record is in a gray paper sleeve with Vanguard recordings in white lettering and some white artworks. No jacket other than a clear plastic envelope that is marked Simply Vinyl S160 vinyl LP. Also says Classic Albums, 160g virgin vinyl pressings. The outer sleeve can't be original, has a web address. simplyvinly.com. The records are stamped Rock Valley College, which was a Jr college back in the day, now part of NIU. They must have sent all their records to a thrift shop at some point. Just glad I never made that mistake.:) |
On the Shostakovich, the pianist is the brilliant Canadian Marc-Andre Hamelin. The newly released vinyl is a tariff short of the original CD / SACD release - it drops the Shchedrin concerto, which is a pity as it includes a jazz band. The digital versions were released in 2003. Hyperion is one of the best British recording labels for classical, and seem to be just getting into vinyl! The Beethoven Triple Concerto I was thinking of features Nicola Benedetti (violin), Sheku Kanneh-Mason (cello) and Benjamin Grosvenor (piano) but is a new Decca (London?) release, not Hyperion. My mistake. I have ordered the new vinyl stampings of the 2001 recordings of Saint-Saens Piano Concertos from Hyperion with Stephen Hough, but they have not arrived yet. These recordings all get top reviews from Gramophone magazine and are available from Presto at https://www.prestomusic.com/ |
@bilpete if you like classical definitely check out the Original Source re-issues and also AP reissues of early Decca, EMI, and others. Amazing sound from recordings from 1950s and 1960s. WOW. Also Impex, Chesky, Testament labels - they have a few classical reissues. And check out the Tracking Angle - Fremer's website - excellent reviews of all vinyl re-issues of all musical genres. And I have been collecting and playing early Decca recordings from 50s, 60s, 70s. Especially those recorded by Ken? Wilkinson in Kingsway Hall. WOW. |
Don't have most of yours but we all have our go to's. It's been interesting and I'm glad to see how many appreciate Tea For The Tillerman. It is one of my all time favorites. Doesn't see as much play as it used to but every now and then, gotta hear it. :) First enjoyed 55 years ago, just as good today as it was then. Lots of us going through our collections to see which ones we have, learning more and being inspired to seek out more. All good stuff. Happy listening to all |
