Very Bad purchase from upscale audio Acoustic Zen Adagio
This was not my first purchase from Kevin Deal at Upscale audio. I am a entry level audiophile. My PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP and Dialogue Premium Preamplifier have given many hours of enjoyment. I have purchased well over 1K in tubes from Kevin. This purchase took me over the 10K mark with Upscale Audio. I am not a rookie to audio or tube amplification. I have had a successful tube amp repair and design shop since 1993. My concern. Here is the description of the Acoustic Zen Adagio from Upscale audio's website.
This pair of Adagio's from our demo room are also the last pair of
Adagio's in our inventory. The Adagio is such a sweet sounding speaker
and is perfect for those who really like to get inside the music. The
pair we have are in the stunning Figure Red wood finish. The baffle
style is the original (and better sounding) non-tapered baffle, as
pictured. Price $2499.00 plus shipping Ok. I called Kevin and talked to him on the phone. I asked him if he would entertain an offer. I told him that I had seen the same speakers offered on Audiogon and Audioasylum for considerably less. He said I am a retail store and back my products. He also said this and I quote " Those people are just guys in their underwear scratching their asses." I am a store. I trusted the description of the speakers and I trusted Kevin. Total price. $2839. $2499.00 plus $340.00 shipping to NC. The speakers arrived and I couldn't wait to unpack them and hook them up. The packing was great. My anticipation was greater. Left speaker Tweeter DOA. The same speaker had a shameful reject finish. The lacquer was so clouded you can hardly see the wood figure. The back of the speaker was loaded with black specks under the lacquer. These speakers are seconds, rejects. I sent Kevin Deal 4 emails referring to the fact that this really was a bad deal. It has been 3 days and no response. On the other hand Robert Lee ( Owner of Acoustic Zen) responded immediately to my email asking for help with the DOA Tweeter. I sent it off next day air to him and today responded that it is on it's way back to me. Somehow Kevin Deal's Train ran off the tracks so don't ask for your money back
1. I vote that this looks like sunlight damage. One speaker placed in a spot that got a lot more sun than the other one. But that wouldn't explain the run on the finish - a second, independent issue with that speaker.
2. I think that Kevin Deal is neither the angel nor the devil as various posters have characterized him here. He is clearly very knowledgeable about audio and tubes. But I had an experience with UA that caused me to hesitate about future purchases as well. Looking for some 6DJ8/6922 tubes and Kevin had some 7DJ8 tubes that he claimed to be fully compatible. The words from that offer are seared into my brain: "Trust Uncle Kevin on this one." So I trusted, and bought, and of course they didn't work -- were destroyed in-- my BAT VK-3i. The story gets a little more complex from there since I did make the mistake of ordering a second set (different brand of 7DJ8 tubes, same claim on UA website) thinking it was a one-time event. Those blew as well. Viktor at BAT asked me why I even thought they should work.Kevin actually did ask me to send the tubes back and he tested and sent me back the portion of the order that were undamaged. But he never refunded me for the first set, which in my mind he clearly should have. So, experience somewhere in-between.
My take on the guy is that he intends to be honest and he is knowledgeable but if you veer from his particular logic stream he is enough of an ego guy to be difficult in that situation. I think it is more of a matter of learning how to "deal" with him if you want the benefit of his knowledge and products.
Did keven take or show any quality photos? That should be Automatic. he is a Liar. Acoustic Zen DoNot make a redwood veneer. these cabinets are made in China their burl was decent the red I doubt is even a veneer most likely a print the poly coat is heavy sprayed . orange peel is Very common .i had them I know a true professional would light sand between spray coats ,then 1,000. Paper at the end and look like glass.these are production speakers luck of the draw the top model is much better . His Ego is way out of control .because of all his lines the $$ in the $Millions he no longer gives a Shite .Time to find someone who still believes in an eye for an eye , and treat others as yourself !!
Just talk to Kevin sometime and decide for yourself. My prior post was deleted when I simply quoted what he said to me on the phone once. He's rude and crude. Much rather send my money to someone who is decent and doesn't treat you like you're a moron
I third or fourth the endorsement of Andy Bowman at Vintage Tube Services. Been very satisfied with every purchase and consult with him: there is no greater nor knowledgeable tube junkie on the planet. One caution with Andy: don't bother with emails. I don't think he even reads them. Visit his site at: http://vintagetubeservices.com/ and when you find a range of what you're looking for, give him a phone call. It will be time well spent. Unlike KD, he won't attempt to unload junk on an unsuspecting newbie.
I have spoken to Kevin in the past on 2 occasions and I had no problems with the man or his products. They do not answer emails promptly, I know that for a fact. In this particular case, I am going to say the problems with the finish did not occur at the showroom floor. I am going to guess these cabinets are made in China and the QC at AZ (if any) is lacking. If the entire production and testing is done in the PRC, then it would explain the defective tweeter as well. The manufacturer needs to replace the pair and Kevin should not be in the business of trying to defend the shoddy workmanship.
I would never post a bad purchase on a social site before I tried to do all I could to remedy the situation. Having your own business I would think you would have the same consideration if someone had a issue with your work. I think it is a bad decision on your part.
Well, at the end of the day I think both parties could have handled it differently, however bottom line, the OP got a pair of excellent sounding speakers, used (demo is used), with a list price of $4500.00 for $2839.00 delivered. If Deal pays him $300.00 that brings it to $2539.00 delivered. Now, in a followup post by the OP he says: "
I figure I paid about $500.00 too much for these speakers." At this point, they are only 200 bucks apart. Seems like a ballpark deal to me.
So now Deal is saying he will give a full refund minus shipping or give a $300 credit? And that all the OP had to do was call him in the first place and we would have taken care of him? Then why was his first response at AA was that they were perfect when shipped with no offer for a refund and that he didn't know there was a bad tweeter? He also made disparaging comments about the OP. Yeah, he really seemed willing to remedy this from the start. NOT! Why didnt he test the speakers to make sure they were in perfect working order before shipping? The fact that he was remiss in fully inspecting the speakers before shipping dictates he should not only offer a full refund, but pay shipping. His initial response on AA speaks volumes about his character. He's gone from offering no remedy other than letting Acoustic Zen send a replacement tweeter to offering a $200 credit to his latest offer. For someone not following the thread he sure seems to be influenced by it. Let's hope continued criticism will get him to offer full restitution.
slaw, I am very sorry. The only point I was trying to make is that Upscale Audio reached out to its customer with a resolution and was trying to contact the customer. rbogartr needs to contact Upscale Audio for a resolution.
Of course, rbogartr can handle this any time he wants. Since he posted the problem here and on another sites, I thought he was anxious to get it resolved. Hopefully, a phone to Upscale Audio is needed and postings here cannot solve his speaker problem.
The whole thing should not have been posted on an open forum. It is between the buyer & seller. Since the OP posted it, comments are going to happen. " At the end of the day" means just that. Pull the emotion out from the OP, KD and everyone else posting here. and what do you have? Just what I said. Do we know what really happened in the communication between the OP & KD, no only he said - he said.
I don’t know why the OP posted this: " My concern. Here is the description of the Acoustic Zen Adagio from Upscale audio’s website.This pair of Adagio’s from our demo room are also the last pair of Adagio’s in our inventory. The Adagio is such a sweet sounding speaker and is perfect for those who really like to get inside the music. The pair we have are in the stunning Figure Red wood finish. The baffle style is the original (and better sounding) non-tapered baffle, as pictured. Price $2499.00 plus shipping"
The above is the description from Upscale’s website current listing of the Acoustic Zen Adagio Jr. speakers, NOT the Acoustic Zen Adagio’s speakers that the OP bought.
There seems to be missing info from both parties and makes me suspect things are just not the way they seem, however, at the end of the day the OP gets a nice sounding pair of speakers at a reasonable price (warts & all). If the OP can live with the flaws and the rebate fine, if he ships them back for a full refund fine, however he won’t have the nice speakers. Both parties need to handle this off the forum, report the end results if one or the other deem necessary. There are no winners in this.
about 25+ years at Audiogon, I am so glad that the truth comes out about Upscales Audio and Mr. Deal. He is one Redneck Asshole, disrespectful and extremely racist person!
If you're referring to the speakers this thread is about, Figure (or Figured) Red is available as a finish from Acoustic Zen. It is not as popular of a finish but it is available.
I'm just reading this thread now, and I have to say that I am neither shocked or surprised by rbogartr's experiences with Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio. Needless to say, I am not a fan and will not do business with Kevin.
Several years ago I was interested in acquiring a tube amp, specifically a Manley Stingray. Upscale is the local dealer for Manley products.I had the money burning a hole in my pocket and called Upscale on Saturday to see if I could make an appointment for that day to listen, although Upscale is approx. 80 miles away. Got Kevin on the phone and he asked me my name, which I gave him. He then responded that he didn't know me and he knows ALL of the audiophiles in the L.A. area. Kevin then asked me which other dealers I had bought from, and if I had ever purchased any gear on Audiogon. I thought the questions were peculiar and rude but I answered his questions honestly. Kevin then told me that he didn't have time for guys who bought gear on Audiogon and he hung up the phone on me. This is absolutely a true story.
To reiterate what others have said in this thread and on others, there are lots of good, caring audio dealers that appreciate and serve their customers in the manner that they should be. Life is too short to buy from bad audio dealers.
He's a bad dealer, I don't even know why he's a dealer as he gives off that he is grumpy or that he's doing you a favor.
I recall one instance where I had him on the phone inquiring about some Pope 6sn7 tubes. He didn't know that I had purchased some Cary F1 components in the past which he modded.
His response, "I have 2 customers here in demo room, I don't have time to be answering your questions about tubes."
Then he proceeded to laugh. And he hung up.
Such an a$$.
He is the worst dealer I have ever dealt with. Nothing of mine will ever come from UA. Ever.
Joey he did that to me once , I felt he does not care to sell me tubes, So 10 yrs later ,I gave him onother chance, I emailed him, and sold me a nice tube for my preamp...
I have not read through this thread in its entirety, but unless I'm missing something it seems to me that one of these speakers has a manufacturing defect (like it or not, high gloss finishes like this add to the price of the speaker, so they are part of what you pay for and thus should be covered by the manufacturer). Have you spoken to the manufacturer about fixing the defect?.
I have not had good experience with this guy either. He just doesn't seem to be able to get over himself. When I spoke with him he was extremely arrogant and insulting and I was his customer.
The dealer of the speaker, in this case Upscale, sells the Poduct/brand of the speaker therefore, the dealer should take care of their customer then take it up to the manufacturer. Kind of like, the dealer guaranteed their product and then get credited by the manufacturer, simple.
I can only guess that "Uncle Kevy" has done very well for himself. How in the world do you explain someone who is so arrogant, offensive, and condescending to his own CUSTOMERS!! Maybe it's a case of forgetting to take ones meds--I don't know. But I do know this. There are many fine folks in our hobby to do business with. We have tons of choice and this guy hardly has a monopoly on anything. So exercise your choice. That is, unless you need to be beaten down so you can be Uncle Kevy worthy.
This is an odd thread. I had assumed that the intent of the op was to warn everyone of his experience. I'm not so sure of that anymore... To be fair, this to all, I don't know Kevin Deal... and all of us Audiophiles are crazily opinionated. So with that, I can see Kevin having that reputation. It doesn't necessarily mean that he is a bad person or that he was intentionally trying to deceive someone. I've seen a dozen or so people tell rbogartr to call Kevin, we've seen Kevin reply on a different site. It looks as though a refund of $300 was offered in lieu of taking them back...He also says that he tried 3 times to contact rbogartr. So does that mean the Kevin has the right to deal with someone with arrogance or belittlement? Absolutely not! rbogartr started this thread and then just let it run wild. Since it was taken to a public forum, it might be nice to see if rbogartr has done his due diligence to properly wrap this up also rather than turn this into an attack. (of course it could all be warranted) @rbogartr I worry a bit about killing someones reputation unfairly, that may not be the case here, but it would be very nice to get an update about your conversations with Kevin?
Rbogartr, One hundred and forty one (141) Audiogon members have made comments and suggestions regarding the tweeter and finish problems with your Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers. It was an amazing amount of useful information that I hope you found useful.
In summary, I believe the major suggestions included a cash refund, speaker refurnishing or return the speakers to the retailer.
Have you decided what you are going to do? Please let us know.
So you spread this "bad deal" all over the 'net without even trying to resolve the problem? I've bought tubes from Kevin and he's always treated me right. Wow.. I feel sorry for your next victim...
Previously I had jumped through this thread reading comments here and there..... I just went through and read the entire thread and found where rbogartr posted on the very first page that this was too stressful for him because he recently lost his wife....He lost $500, but was still looking forward to getting the replacement tweeters and enjoying his speakers.... I'm sorry that I missed that portion rbogartr and am truly sorry for your loss... I can't imagine losing my wife.... I do want to encourage you to still contact Kevin and at least take the $300 refund that he offered. I can see you not wanting to deal with it, but it appears mistake or not that the cabinet issue was not exposed. You never know, he just may want to make it right and it would be better for all.... good luck, I hope that you have family and friends around you in this tough time.... Tim
Nicely put Tim. Many fellow 'philes feel the same and offer our condolences to rbogartr during such a difficult time. Perhaps we all need to tell our wives how much we love them before our next listen.....and maybe then put this thread to rest.
Personal issues does not absolve besmirching a business. It's clear that Kevin has offered to make it right. I find the OP's characterization of Upscale Audio without merit.
@miko71, if this was an isolated case I would tend to agree with you, but reading through the entire thread here and on AA, this appears not to be the case.
The issue has been resolved. Kevin again offered to provide a shipping label and pay for the return of the speakers. He also said he would refund every penny I paid. He offered a $300.00 refund if I wanted it instead. I chose not to pack up the speakers and send them back. Kevin is providing the $300.00 credit. I expressed my regret for taking this issue to this forum before exhausting all other avenues. Robert Lee returned the tweeter with some silver solder, and the owner's manual. I installed it and the speakers sound great.
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