Velodyne DD15 - worth repairing the plate amp?

What kind of deep bass are you getting and will it play loudly?

4.0 ohm measured. 

Running the Qsc in bridge now, works well. 

Yes, i need to measure the woofer. 12 ohm sound VERY strange though.

I have a DD-10 that's apart and it measures 12 ohms. I never checked the 15 when it was apart. Do you have a multimeter?

So, did a quick temp hookup. QSC CX702 (one channel) fed from sub out (cross over at 50 Hz) to passive Velodyne DD-15. 

Very tight. 

Surprised: The QSC (class H) driving 1 channel only has clipping light coming on at higher (not crazy, but loud) listening levels. 

Does someone know what impedance the Velodyne driver has? 4 Ohm?

Assume the driver is not 2 ohm, I will try bridged mode (and make some better cable connections, very sketchy right now for the quick trial setup). 

If so, I am using all of the QSC's 825 Watt! 

8 Ohms:
425 W per Channel (Full Range, 0.03% THD)
4 Ohms:
700 W per Channel (Full Range, 0.05% THD)
8 Ohms:
475 W per Channel (1 kHz, 1% THD)
4 Ohms:
825 W per Channel (1 kHz, 1% THD)
2 Ohms:
1200 W per Channel (1 kHz, 1% THD)
16 Ohms:
850 W Bridged (Full Range, 0.1% THD)
8 Ohms:
1500 W Bridged (Full Range, 0.1% THD)
4 Ohms / 8 Ohms:
2400 W Bridged (1 kHz, 1% THD)

Yes, EBC (Matt) already received the amp. 
I made a back plate (with speaker cable pass through) to seal up the enclosure (RTV silicone around the speaker cable, used existing screws). RTV should be hard now, so will test tonight if enclosure 'holds air' (enough). Also brought one of by Class D amps up, so (assuming rain day tomorrow) will hook it up and test. Plan to run Audicy with the receiver and sub connected for initial setup, then dial in sub volume a bit more (but cannot change crossover frequency). 

@keppertup2  Thanks for that contact information and your experience with them.

He's already done so kep.

Take the amp out of the speaker box.  Disconnect the two speaker wires after labeling them and disconnect the multi-pin connector.  Ship the amp wrapped in bubble to:

EBC Electronics LLC
908-458-6072
126 S 14th ave, Manville, NJ, 08835

The repair cost should be $150 to $300.

I have had EBC repair five of them.  They come back sounding brand new.

Good luck,

J

It could work. Mini DSP mentioned above is made for what you want to do. I’ve never tried one. But I’ve heard it works great. Look it up on YouTube. If interested.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4OY0MhMKTc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU-H-HD4bxg

Now an unrelated question: my main system (audio, TV) is in an extremely larger volume room (2 1/2 stories high, open on 2 sides to other 2 1/2 story foyer, and one story dining room and kitchen (guessing 1800 sqft plus big volume). I use Dayton UM 18-22 in sealed enclosure driven by LT1300 (taken from Elemental Design A7-450 sub). 

When the Velodyne amp comes back, is it possible to ADD it to the main system and pair it with the Dayton UM 18-22?

Or is it not a good idea to pair a 'controlled' (Velodyne, sealed) sub with an 'uncontrolled' sealed. 

Or worse, pairing two different (any) subs?

https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/stereo-34way-xover

The mini DSP uses a microphone and computer to equalize the sub much like the Velodyne software. But it is more sophisticated. They also make many other products for home and studio.https://www.minidsp.com/applications/subwoofer-tuning/dual-sub-with-mso

WayTooMuchStuff: Will run it as passive with external amp until EBC sends the amp back. Put the back plate on, need to seal up (silicone) the speaker cable pass through hole. Then get the Class D amp and plug it in, see what happens. 

rwwear: this is what I actually have 'sitting on the shelf', reserved for my 'resurrection project Infinity Quantum 2'. Goal is to tri amp (feed the 2 coils of the Watkins woofer with class D, low/mid class A/B, high/EMIT with tube or class A) using active crossover, for which I bought (never unpacked!) the MiniDSP 2x4HD. No idea how it works, or how to use it as a low path for the Velodyne. 

I did misunderstand Kraftwerk. The Berhinger should work.

Waytoomuch, Have you tried Mini DSP with the Velodyne?

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

For me, the Amp Man repair approach is a no-brainer. Selling off savagable decent hifi gear at fire sale pricing doesn’t pass the "4th grade math" test IMO. The net, net value to you is higher with a repaired unit, even if you’re ready to move on.

So many good subs to chose from, so little Hz. There are many good choices out there, including retaining your old pal, the DD-15.

Thinking outside the box, if you decide to keep the DD-15 and want it to sound better than new, there are some simple DYI "tweaks" you can do to at home in your "spare" time. Once you determine your amp is repaired, healthy, and field tested for a period of time, grab the soldering gun, wire strippers and silver solder and get after it.. If you want to personally contact me, I’ll provide a few ideas that we’ve performed in the past that pay notable sonic dividends.

As some suggested, if you want to incorporate modern performance/technology without completely abandoning the Velodyne, you might consider the passive approach. This will make the Velodyne pretty much "obsolete proof" by allowing you to upgrade amps in the future as you see fit. You’lll lpay a premium for a chassis, faceplate, etc for a stand-a-lone mono amp, but the performance and flexibility may be worth it.

So, that’s the low down from this humble contributor.

I think you misunderstood: The Behringer (1000W or so into 8 ohm, 2000 into 4 ohm) external amp is driving the 15" Velodyne, signal to Behringer is the sub out from the receiver (and using the receivers low pass). Pretty sure the Behring can provide enough steam to drive the DD15 in its sealed enclosure.

Wondering if someone ever measured the DD15 WITHOUT the software/control hardware (just 'as is'). Looks like a 3 cu*ft enclosure, so figure roll off should start fairly high (at least 30 Hz?).

We'll all be interested in the outcome. He probably doesn't have the amp in stock if it needs one, does he?

I just don't believe your receiver will have nearly enough power for the sub.

Package the plate amp up and shipping to EBC (NJ) today. Made a seal plate (not finished) and will run the sub with Behringer EP2000 direct from sub out of receiver until the Velodyne amp comes back. 

Correct.

So not just software, but associated "plus" hardware = not applicable for DD15.

I don't think you can. The cabinet and drivers are different as well as the boards.

So if fixed, get the new "plus" software for the 'non plus' DD?

@rwwear No the DD series has automatic room and main speaker EQ if you run the output into your preamp. But I never use the electronic xover in the sub for the main speakers. I want my mains to run full range without any other electronics to distort the signal.

You weren't alone and may have been the impetus for the now twelve year old Velodyne Plus software redesign. The Plus Auto EQ now produces an improved and stunningly unnoticeable integration during the approximately twenty minute optimization cycle without any adjustment of the main speakers. 

It's could be that your amp is not using as much power. I'm not using my subs for a surround system.

My Eureka moment actually came when I selected 'small' for my front speakers (even so they are BIG floor standing speakers) and send everything below 50 to the sub. Not sure WHY it sound SO MUCH better, likely because the receiver does not have to deal with all the heavy lifting for the low octaves. Now I even run my Nautilus 804 as 'small',  the 18" in sealed enclosure driven by LT1300 (ICE design) sub amp does the heavy lifting. 

Another option is to use a Velodyne SMS-1 with a power amp to replace the subwoofer plate amp.

That's a possibility but remember the DD has a 1350 watt amp and EQing a sub down to below 20hz requires exponential amounts of power.

No the DD series has automatic room and main speaker EQ if you run the output into your preamp. But I never use the electronic xover in the sub for the main speakers. I want my mains to run full range without any other electronics to distort the signal.

Since my two DD-12 Plus are working fine I haven't visited Velodyne Acoustics GmbH in a while.

Early on they had links to internationally located service providers who seemed to have changed over time. It appears they're now using the RMA form method to begin service concerns.

@rwwear  You have to make sure the amp is for your model because they have to be programmed for different DD subs. The DD-15 and DD-18 use the same amp but different programming. And they all look alike. 

The fellow who helped me during my visit to Morgan Hill mentioned something about different model programing within the same series. 

To my knowledge DD Plus is the only processing were its Sweep Tones are played through both the main speakers and the sub/s as Auto EQ develops the subwoofers digital parameters to support the main speakers analog timbre and low frequency output all within the room. Afterwords the user can make further presets adjustments to taste.  

Another option is to use a Velodyne SMS-1 with a power amp to replace the subwoofer plate amp.

The DD series does have a video output which is very helpful. The DD Plus is the newer model. It also has computer connections. The DD Plus series uses the same amps as the DD models. That's one reason the amps are still available.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Robert

I forgot to point out that Origin Acoustics is the US distributor of Velodyne. They do have parts but it was more expensive for them. Although they would be better if you needed to send the plate amp to them for repair in the US.The caps were bad in mine as well as the SMDs on the board. I don't think you will have good luck using an outboard amp because of the EQ and power that is involved with the DD series. But you may if you used something like mini DSP with a powerful amp.https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

Thanks rwwear. Paul from EBC (thank you for replying !!!) commented regarding the suspicious caps

"they are not leaked. it is a glue the manufacture used to hold them in place. it degraded over the time and became cranchy but should not be an issue.does it have video menu when you connect it to a tv/monitor?". 

Next, I will make a plate to fill the plate amp hole, get one of my class D amps and hook up to sub out of receiver and connect the Velodyne to the amp. See how it sounds.

Will also try if I can (as Paul suggests) to hook up to a TV/monitor. 

Kraftwerk and m-db, I replaced the 2 caps and all the SMDs on the board. They are quite numerous and small. And you have to pry the boards apart from the foam insulator. Which is glued. I used a steak knife. The sub worked but was much lower in volume than my other one. That does not mean it won’t repair yours. But my amp was bad. M-db, they do not have the whole plate amp, only the amp itself because they still use them in the new subs. They will repair the whole plate amp but shipping to and from Germany will be high. The amp module just plugs in. You have to make sure the amp is for your model because they have to be programmed for different DD subs. The DD-15 and DD-18 use the same amp but different programming. And they all look alike. Here’s a picture of the amp. https://www.ebay.com/itm/145278181171?hash=item21d3411f33:g:MQcAAOSwroNk9GcZ&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Dlasd1VpHEE7IZzv%2F56e1lWtlfQ2PXUvSHuVeapZpoxPQ1UD452WTaWHIocJVvedVfo3hbabQ%2BtmOf%2BqqSCDoEIcNFehjJDa6m8hoXp4GPt2Cuyg25ntkxeOhcoHljjSZzIPtPiowt1qZR2b5HY1zQJUqnV1VVPTqO158QP%2FUmCBN1lIhMFVFWLkw1KO2oFF8GBCK1gKxHffCRCd0KS5psP10q0G0dhD67b1v7kQGIbm0SpNx5tWsmp9Cl09X6ImWgjUIaAKn3LISHO%2FOQWbcduTnEtsUr35tY4F6rpSmXD%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8jS6u_dYg

rwwear is it possible (photos above) that the 2 small leaked caps in the incoming small power board are the issue? $370 for NEW (??) amp would certainly be the way to go; will contact them how much shipping within Germany is (and then see if I can arrange overseas with my suppliers/contacts). 

crustycoot Have quote from EBC NJ, but long wait (currently as short as 6 weeks, but ’warning’ is "up to 12 weeks". Their cost $320 (incl return shipping,excl tax and outbound shipping), $360 total. Amp Man $350 plus tax plus outbound shipping ($400 total).

Looks like the 2 small caps on the incoming power board leaked out. Not sure if other components got damaged by it, or if only the 2 caps need to be replaced, or maybe the entire small board. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18LVto77k__xPTrGlQ4Q3esq5PzzkAk5a/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I1TsCafd4P1z3w5DEDdw_B3MWv48PMd3/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZKaSQHnQC_jouzuFT03W9LzfpeVrpU_S/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cR_o3tYEfWqLq3c8pqSGbQOu3eIMXhYL/view?usp=sharing

the amp man repaired my 2011 DD 12+. i sent him the amp plate. he made repairs. works great. if you could find a DD 15+....... never mind...$800 bucks......

@rwwear     [Velodyne Acoustics GmbH | Alsterkrugchaussee 435 | 22335 Hamburg | GERMANY Tel.: 0049 - (0)40 - 238 307 880 | Fax: 0049 - (0)40 - 533 204 59.}

Terrific first hand information.  Your's is the first I've heard from anyone who has dealt with Velodyne GmbH directly. Interesting to have idea about shipping cost. Thanks for posting.

Did the plate they provided appear to be new old stock or repaired? 

The DD-15 is still a great sub. I own two. I recently repaired one of mine myself. I ended up having to replace the amp which costs around $370.00 from Velodyne in Germany plus about $180.00 for shipping. I had replaced all of the caps on the main board but it didn’t fix the problem.

The DD-15 was $5000.00 new and still competes with the best available. REL is not a real sub IMO. They don't even go down to 20hz.

You can’t just replace the plate amp with an off the shelf version as someone suggested. The Velodyne amp is 1350 watts plus eq and much more is involved.

try the folks in new jersey, they are velodyne repair wizards!!! and very reasonably priced as well.

I sent my plate amp in for repair (DD15) and it only worked for another year. I wasn't into paying $400 per year to keep it going, so I moved on. SVS has some nice stuff with free shipping.

mijostyn Yes, the single mass accel/decel of the driver's mass 'moves' the sub. But the push/push also causes movement (flexing the outside walls of the enclosure) in the same way. So also imperfect.

Not relevant, because this post is not about the best subwoofer design principle, but if the $400 repair of a DD-15 is a better investment and creates a better result compared to a similar budget ($800 total investement) other solutions. And how well a vintage 2008 DD-15 compares to sub $1000 new technology subs. 

@kraftwerkturbo ,

It is not push pull kraft it is push push and totally relevant to this topic if you want the best performance. Take any subwoofer and play a bass heavy number at highish volume. Put your hand on the subwoofers enclosure. You will feel it vibrating, even if it is spiked to the floor. This is distortion. Ideally you should feel nothing. A sub like the Martin Logan will have 90% less vibration = less distortion. If you like distortion go with a single driver design, even s servo driven single driver design is going to have more distortion. 

CORRECTION: My Velodyne Plus subwoofers have been in my service for 12 years, not 22. Velodyne CA. Digital Drive Optimization technology may be over 20 years old beginning with the SMS-1. My apologies.

["On the other hand my current Plus 12’s and the 10 Plus are over 22 years old."  "set between +1 - +5dB between 38Hz - 15Hz for the past 22 years."] 

I just picked up an Earthquake MiniMe DSP P12,  at $640 ($1300msrp) it was a great value and perfect for movies and non critical music , but my brother's HGS 15 walks all over it.  

Those big Velodyne have great pitch definition and really dig deep.  

whart Those Class D plate amps with 'electronic' (can't think of the term) power supplies (without the huge/heavy transformers and coolers) are very light and cheap to ship. My LT1300 plate amp is 40 lbs, this one is maybe 5 lbs. 

@m-db Mine was a DD18 made in 2006.  I'm not complaining about the failure.  It went 17 years with no problems and I got it fixed for not that much money.  

Time to move on.