VAC preamps - too expensive?

Vac goes with everything. Everything

If you like VAC, want VAC and can afford VAC, then you are in a position to own and enjoy  some of best and most prestigious museum worthy pieces out there. Go for it!  Life is too short to wait. 

Thanks @mulveling.  Your systems must sound absolutely amazing.  I’m not sure if my YG Acoustics speakers will play nicely with tube amps though.  YG is usually shown with SS amps, and I know their showroom uses D’Ag amps.  I still hope to listen to the VACs.  Have a great weekend!

Bingo regarding everything that you posted. Yes, we buy and enjoy VAC! How is your Master 300iQ amp? I’ve gotta listen to that somehow somewhere.

@kmmd  They're absolutely amazing - biggest component difference I’ve ever heard in my system. Took them on loan from my dealer and wasn’t expecting to buy them, because my speakers are 96dB and the 200iQs were already quite good - but it was a huge upgrade. The Master preamp & phono are a 100% ideal match, of course. It wasn’t really responsible for me to buy them either, but I made it work somehow lol. 

Time to stop messing around - main rig is now 100% VAC and will stay that way. Small rig is the "sandbox" now, and I'm trying to work some VAC magic into there too - hence the Renaissance 3. 

@mulveling 

 

Bingo regarding everything that you posted.  Yes, we buy and enjoy VAC! How is your Master 300iQ amp?  I’ve gotta listen to that somehow somewhere.  

@kmmd

His fixation here, when he’s clearly NOT the target audience for VAC gear, is kinda weird (as is the account hopping). He mentions Dan D’ag, but we know he wouldn’t buy that gear either because "too expensive". He could also buy a used VAC Renaissance Mk 2 or Phi Beta (my friend has one - sounds great!) which DOES have remote-selectable inputs, but of course he won’t (some excuse will be invented, as necessary). Those extra relays and digital controllers DO affect the ultimate sound quality, and VAC listened to guys like me who wanted the more pure path, because WE ACTUALLY BUY VAC GEAR lol.

Having a remote that controls the input Will not affect sound quality. Vac is charging a premium for the product and it would be nice with a remote that's fully functional.

The company is too stubborn to offer this feature. 

D'Agostino offers a remote with Bluetooth. 
vac Products are very overpriced like so many other audio components.

Hey emerging, thanks for showing us that you and the OP, jumia, are one in the same.  I’ve known that.  Your fixation on a full remote and option to remotely change the input selection is just plain ridiculous from a purist point of view.  Please give Kevin a call and ask why.  Kevin is a true gentleman and definitely stands behind his products.  I’m hoping to send my Master line stage in for the phono upgrade later this year.  Btw, my Theta CB just came back after being upgraded to the CB V.  Loving it so far.

@mulveling 

Thank you for your great comments. My trollish rhetoric is due to the frustration I had trying to make a decision about this vac preamp, which was plan to be incorporated into a Home theater arrangement when used for stereo listening.

Unfortunately, vac does not make a remote that allows input changing despite offering a home theater button on the face of the component which is kind of weird. My family didn't like this functionality and that trumped it's performance qualities and plus it may have been located in a separate room. I did buy a different preamp at a very comparable level so everybody was happy

Why these guys don't put this type functionality on the remote is beyond me and when I spoke to a person at the company about this issue they seemed a bit arrogant which I can live with should I have chosen to buy the unit.  It wasn't the owner guy. Nevertheless who knows where I may end up and maybe Vac Will honor a spot somewhere under my roof.

My Phi Beta preamp has been the beating heart of my main system for 12 years, on 14-16 hours a day and requiring zero maintenance beyond changing tubes every couple years. Love it.

Sounds like Vac Products require lots of maintenance. What do they do to it and why is it necessary? Super inconvenient for a quality product

You come off as a troll, but just to clarify for the benefit of others:

No, they don’t need more service than other brands. My Ren 3 went in for cosmetic touch-ups needed due to a slightly careless prior owner. And when a component lasts for 15+ years, then it’s prudent to refresh any electrolytic capacitors, regardless of brand. I would wager VAC products have a much longer "usage" lifespan than average, because they still sound great 20 years later.

I have not personally had a failure with any VAC component - 15 years, 9 (I think) components.

Sounds like Vac Products require lots of maintenance. What do they do to it and why is it necessary? Super inconvenient for a quality product

Going back to the many skeptics and sour grape guys in 2021.  Tell me.....how many companies are there where the CEO (Kevin Hayes) is highly likely to answer the phone when you contact the company??....and then he will speak with you for as long as necessary to thoroughly answer your question!! My Sig Mkii se with phono stage is an amazing piece of precision equipment that compliments my entire system. I can only dream as to "how much" the Master series could improve upon the sonic results I am so fortunate to experience.

This. And they also happily service all past products, which can't be understated. That's pride in your product.

Actually spoke to Kevin just last week. I'm having a Renaissance 3 preamp reconditioned - it's the perfect sonic match for my small office rig. In the main rig I'm now running a full VAC Master preamp + Master monoblocks stack, which far exceeds the performance of any other system version I've had. It's finally stopped the component swapping, and every single session since December has been bliss. Nowhere to go from here since I can't afford Statement, but no complaints :)

Find the right VAC to match your system, then sit back and enjoy. If you build your rig like you select car insurance, then why even bother?

Kevin is a stand up guy, he services EVERYTHING they ever sold, decades later. I had my Pre amp and Amp updated this year. When I visited a few weeks ago to pick up my amp, it wasn’t boxed up yet. So Kevin sat with me for 45 minutes in the shop while I waited and we talked about VAC stuff. He even went to find the record on my amp to find the manufacture date. He keeps files on everything ever sold. All their stuff is hand made, I’ve talked to Brent several times-they all are most friendly and helpful. You get what you pay for and the service after the sale is phenomenal. These are life time pieces. I’ve had mine for 20 years!

Going back to the many skeptics and sour grape guys in 2021.  Tell me.....how many companies are there where the CEO (Kevin Hayes) is highly likely to answer the phone when you contact the company??....and then he will speak with you for as long as necessary to thoroughly answer your question!! My Sig Mkii se with phono stage is an amazing piece of precision equipment that compliments my entire system. I can only dream as to "how much" the Master series could improve upon the sonic results I am so fortunate to experience.

Thanks for the info, and it makes sense.  I wonder if anyone has run REW frequency response for a component with fuse swaps.

Yes, I’ve just replaced the Purples in my Lampi dac and VAC preamp with the QSA. Extraordinary difference.

The "bump" I referred to is how sound is engineered, from what I read. True neutral is a perfectly flat response curve. Apparently, most people would not like the sound of that. So for a more palatable, "balanced" sound, a little bump is added on each side of the middle. If more gain is given to the bass, that means warmth. If more on the upper side, that means greater sense of presence and detail, as I understand it. For example, when the SR Orange came out, the initial review on Agon noted that instead of the Red’s "neutral" sound, which I didn’t like, the Orange seemed to include a mid bass bump, because it had gained a bit of warmth. That was continued with the Purple. One upshot of this is, as I understand it, that when audiophiles speak of neutral, what they’re unknowingly talking about is a frequency response that has been modified from flat, and not necessarily in a balanced way.

@highstream

That’s interesting regarding the VAC power supply fuse holder. I’m 100% sure I loaded from the top, since my preamp sits inside my entertainment center and can only be accessed from the top.

I found the M1 fuse in my N20 to provide a neutral sound and more definition and presence. I’m not sure of a “bump.” I don’t think that I’ll move to the M1 for the VAC due to the long burn in time. Have you tried the SR fuses? I haven’t tried the purples but have an orange in my Theta. They don’t seem to take as long to burn in, but they blow pretty easily.

@kmmd Unless the design has changed, the Master's fuse holder is a bottom feeder. So unless the unit is on an upper shelf, it needs to be pulled out and flipped over to change fuses. I installed a QSA red/black. While I had liked the AM Ultimate, the Ultimate Premier seemed a design change toward neutral with an emphasis on presence. At least the latter entails an upper end bump, the opposite of what creates a sense of warmth. Alfred at Highend said that if I didn't like the UP, the Master wouldn't please either. 

@highstream

I changed the fuse to an Audio Magic Ultimate Premier a while back. The tray slides out about an inch or so and locks without coming all the way out. There are two slots from what I recall where the outer fuse is used in the circuit. I loaded it from the top.

Have you tried the M1 Masterpiece fuse? It is quite a fuse, and I was the one who purchased the used one from USAM several months ago for my Aurender N20.

 

Yes, it is the same small slow blow 4A fuse used for the Master as well as the MkIIa SE preamp that I had.

 

@mulveling

Thanks for the good chuckle.

 

Btw, my Theta will be going in for the CB V upgrade this week.  :)

Vac amplifiers are over priced.

I recommend you use a Topping power amp with the pre-outs from an AVR receiver.

Vac amplifiers are over priced.

I just searched  VAC 200iQ amplifier,and see a  guy buy new with $14000 and sold $7600.

I just can't put the linking into here,it might have some limitation with forums.

It is the current model,so it won't be long time.

Is that to say this products with  value for money is not good?

Am I right?

That is absolutely normal and expected used pricing behavior for a $14,000 MSRP tube amp which has been out for 7 years.

I just searched  VAC 200iQ amplifier,and see a  guy buy new with $14000 and sold $7600.

I just can't put the linking into here,it might have some limitation with forums.

It is the current model,so it won't be long time.

Is that to say this products with  value for money is not good?

Am I right?

 

Anyone changed the fuse in the Master preamp (same as others?)? Does the tray come all the way out? If not, does the fuse insert from the bottom? I changed it a couple of months ago, probably before I put it in my cabinet, but am not succeeding now and don't want to use more force until I know more. Thanks,

But the remote doesn’t offer input selection capability so this is inappropriate for home theater use.

It’s very sad because I wanted to buy it but the family would be hard sell since the remote can’t change the inputs on it and also because it probably would be located in a separate adjoining room with the other gear.

But this company is indifferent to this modification and doesn’t wanna come into the modern age for whatever reason

 

 

Surely OP is enjoying his new tube preamp by now, right?

@fthompson251 Cool, the Renaissance III preamp is sweet. I especially liked its phono stage. It was very well built, with a hand wired line stage, and I vastly prefer its aesthetic over the Renaissance V. I have a friend who still pines over the 300B Renaissance power amps and tells me how great they were. But the new Master 300 amps are just stunning; they simply blow me and my 200iQ’s away 😲

@fthompson251 

That's great and I'm sure you're enjoying.  I was curious whether there were upgrades available for my Ren Mk V.  I suspect not but I shot VAC an email.

@three_easy_payments

 

The Pre amp went from Mk II to Mk III, so it is like new now. The Amp is @ Mk II and will be Mk III Signature. Both units will be like new and I have had them both for over 20 years, they are very well built.  In this version in it's day it was a $22,000.00 amp. 

@fthompson251 

I had them upgrade my pre amp and will visit again in January to drop off my Amp for upgrade. 

What type of upgrades did they do for your preamp? 

I had the chance to meet Kevin Hayes today when I visited their shop in Sarasota. I also spoke with  his tech Brent who built my amp and serviced my pre amp, quite nice fellows. Very personable to me. We talked about tubes, my gear and the fact that Kevin still to this day has a Renaissance amp in his personal system at home. He showed it to me. He showed me some old proto type amp chassis, it was fun. I had them upgrade my pre amp and will visit again in January to drop off my Amp for upgrade. He was very enthusiastic about the Mk IIIs upgrade that I plan for my Renaissance 70/70 map. So am I!

I have a long history of buying gear I "can't afford" ,   if I had VAC kind of $$$ I would definitely consider them.   

I always stretch my budget, I would rather save for a year or two and buy something that is over the top.   Worst thing is buyers remorse, you avoid that to some extent when you make a smart, thought out purchase.    

Buy once, cry once....

Btw, when did you start this thread? Hmm, still no tubed pre? Yeah, just stick with an HT pre/pro with a good remote and you’re done

Initial post June 2021. 
Agree with your suggestion. The VAC preamplifier isn’t for him it clearly seems by now. People who buy the VAC unquestionably understand what it is and more importantly, what they want.

Charles

 

Trinnov it’s a nice unit but very few people you 16 channels. If you’re only using seven or eight channels which is quite a bit, this unit would seem wasteful.

Not sure all the excess bodes well for good sound.

Would be nice if Home theater processors became to chassis with the hopes of improving sound.

This is exactly why Theta Digital sells 4 and 6-channel DAC cards. You can go for their Xtreme or less pricey Premium cards. The Casablanca is fully upgradeable, and you don’t have to buy the latest version V. Mine started as a III HD and is now a IVa. I can upgrade to a V whenever, but I don’t feel the need to do so at this point.

 

Btw, when did you start this thread? Hmm, still no tubed pre? Yeah, just stick with an HT pre/pro with a good remote and you’re done.

@audioguy85 

I never understood all the hype behind that Border Patrol DAC. Perhaps it was a system synergy thing at the time but it left me completely unimpressed. 

Trinnov it's a nice unit but very few people you 16 channels. If you're only using seven or eight channels which is quite a bit, this unit would seem wasteful.

Not sure all the excess bodes well for good sound.

Would be nice if Home theater processors became to chassis with the hopes of improving sound.  
 

But I spoke about like in Conrad Johnson gat2 vs vac which fall short for home theater use due to functionality limitation by not having a remote select inputs.

“They need to modernize their functionality. They have a home theater knob on the front of the box and yet the remote can’t control input selection. I believe volume can be controlled by the Remote.”

No, the volume from a HT processor/preamp can’t be controlled by the VAC. That is why it is a “BYPASS” to allow the front Main channel volume to be controlled (along with all the surround/center/atmos channels) by the processor. As for input selection on the VAC remote, there are good reasons not to have it.  Give Kevin a call to ask.

@jumia-

It seems like you’re always steering back to home theater and that’s cool if you’re into that. I have a lot of friends who love music but want their system to do both. Why not try out these products-

https://www.trinnov.com/en/products/altitude-sup-16-sup/

https://www.genelec.com/home-theatres

This stuff will serve you well

 

 

I'm looking at the Conrad Johnson Gat2 which provides all the functionality you need inside a home theater.

Their internal design is simplified as well.

 

Aside from all the coloration VAC does it's a nice preamp.

They need to modernize their functionality.  They have a home theater knob on the front of the box and yet the remote can't control input selection.  I believe volume can be controlled by the Remote.

Could you better describe that "coloration" from your listening experience, or are you just echoing someone else's opinion here?

This thread keeps going, somehow. You're not in the target market for a Master: an upscale, analog purist, hand-wired 2ch audio preamp with no digital control chips or volume and absolutely minimal relay switching (just the Mute control). I'm in their target market; I bought one. I actually DON'T want a Master with "modernized" features - that's not what core VAC is all about.

A far better match for your use case is an Audio Research Reference 6 or 6SE - these too are wonderful units, and I also own a 6. But here too you complained about "too many tubes". The 6H30 is long lived and ultra reliable. The single 6550 should be replaced every 1000 hours. This is minimal maintenance IMO. 

The Master has only 2 tubes because it uses Lundahl input and output transformers to handle the I/O loading. You either need to look for other tube designs using that approach (which is relatively rare), or (more likely) pivot to SS preamps. 

Aside from all the coloration VAC does it's a nice preamp.

They need to modernize their functionality.  They have a home theater knob on the front of the box and yet the remote can't control input selection.  I believe volume can be controlled by the Remote.

I think they're losing a lot of business unfortunately maybe they don't care.

I have owned my VAC Cla 1 MK II for 20 years. Back then I believed to get to the end game faster, so I did. I pick it up this week after getting it upgraded to Mk III status so I am now set for the rest of my lifetime for a pre amp. I also have the VAC Renaissance 70/70 Mk II amp which I will be dropping off to them in January 2023 to get upgraded to Mk IIII status. And that will be all I need for the rest of my lifetime. I may be venturing into getting some very nice 300 B tubes for it next. Got my eye on some PSVANE ACME 300 B’s. I have to get out of my chair to change the volume on each of the volume pots, one for each channel. I don’t mind. Funny, same goes for all the vinyl enthusiast, each time they swap an LP, it’s really no big deal right? Most of my digital front end is now current and replaced with current designs in the past year as well as new speakers. I am engaged with my system each time I see those tubes glow, I just stare at them as the music flows, sounds wonderful to me still after all these years. VAC makes solid stuff and stand behind it after decades.

vac makes great gear, has for decades, kevin hayes is a brilliant designer, a perfectionist (and a very nice, stand up person too) - i still own a set of his 4-chassis pa90c amps, which was one of the very small handful of original tip-top rated amps by harry pearson at the outset of the absolute sound ... that amp put the kevin and his company on the map, and the rest is history

vac prices are very high (always been), but there is clearly a market, of well heeled aficianados who value the outstanding performance, looks, engineering and build quality, and are willing to pay for it

if the price is too high for you, don’t complain and make a stink, just buy something cheaper, that fits your budget and sensibilities -- no shortage of very good performing tube gear out there priced at more ’affordable’ levels - rogue, quicksilver, primaluna, jolida, raven, dsachs and so on...

’why are porsches and mclarens soooo damned expensive, folks who make them are just arrogant jerks... i hate them...’ 😠😠😠

You should buy something else instead of whining.

If that is not apparent to you it is to me.

VAC has a big button on front of VAC for ht bypass. Why?  No one else does this, yet they arent interested in ht users.

very strange.  Why dont you want input selection functionality? Is it all about SQ?  Maybe family wants convenience of not dealing with a very complex rack of components all the time, they are lazy like most of us.

@jjss49 
I get kinda the same vibe - it's a weird thread where OP complains about VAC pricing & features, then pretends to contemplate buying one, then goes back to complaining lol. Yes, we get that OP wishes it had remote input switching - I prefer not to pay for that. Sure we wish it magically cost under $10K, but that's not feasible with its material quality, craftsmanship, service/support, and being made in USA. 

VAC customers buy it for the purity of sound. Period. We believe Kevin is a voicing genius. I'm still surprised it even has an HT bypass. Half of my comments on audiophiles' high-end 2ch systems are "get that TV out of there" lol

op is frustrated with quest for for great sound/functionality in an overpriced market.

Highend stereo preamp manufs could careless about ht users and its a losing strategy. Dealers are sooooo frustrated with functionality limitations.

the world is changing and is demanding easier integration of stereo and ht systems. Its not that hard.
Stand up for change. Make more money!! See the light.

op is trolling

no energy for the trolls please

miller, didn't you know, the arrogance of the maker of hifi gear, or its owner, enters through the ht bypass jack of any unit

that is why arrogant audiophiles stick with 2 channel only... 😁😁😁😁

Why is VAC arrogant? Every company has to define its target customer base and cater to its needs. I'm sure, like every other company, they perform market analysis and identify the segments they want to target. If they see a sizable market for HT users, I'm sure they will offer extra features. Quite clearly, their core customer base could care less about HT. Trying to please everyone all the time is a recipe for bankruptcy on steroids.

I, for one, hope that 2-channel designs stay as far as possible from HT.