Unbelievable
Yamaha really made this statement:
Glossy black piano finish provides improved signal-to-noise performance
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/ns-5000/index.html
I thought I would seek opportunity to hear these speakers, but now I do not think so
None of the worldwide reviews on the NS-5000 mention the effect of the finish as improving the signal to noise ratio, just that the finish improves cabinet rigidity. With the introduction of the speakers to the US, Yamaha I believe changed this copy on all of its worldwide market websites and something got lost in translation. Yamaha paid great attention to the cabinet construction to dampen even micro vibrations. Aside from the overall construction and novel internal damping mechanisms, the company employed FEM analysis and according to one review, a "laser vibroscope" (actually I believe this is a Doppler laser vibrometer). What Yamaha explained to one reviewer is that it believes, which apparently its measurements confirm, is that the 1.2mm thick piano finish dampens micro vibrations better than veneer, just as the birch plywood obviously performs better than MDF. As an example of attention to detail, the company experienced some early problems with the Hokkaido birch plywood not acclimating properly to the humid climate of Indonesia, where the speakers are manufactured. That problem was solved by adjusting the moisture content of the plywood during the manufacturing process in the Hokkaido mill. While it is impossible to state with total accuracy, and while Yamaha employs skilled labor, the national minimum wage in Indonesia is less than a tenth of what it is in Japan or the USA. Yamaha priced the NS-5000 in a highly competitive price point. One can only imagine the economies of scale they realized by manufacturing in Indonesia and what these speakers may have cost if created by a smaller manufacturer, if that were even possible considering they took 8 years to develop and apparently were afforded virtually unlimited resources. That's for a loudspeaker that as another review noted, is really a studio quality monitor disguised as a consumer product. |
"check out www.kyronaudio.com.au and look up the Gaia. Full range, no box."Maybe you have to paint the room differently. http://www.kyronaudio.com.au/gaia.html |
"Unfortunately the day of a boxless point source full range loudspeaker still seems quite a long way off - "... ....yeah, 'boxless' is the hard part. Even the Ohm F's & A's had their base cabinets, and certainly had their issues.....the new ones' as well... Funny how 'point source' never seems to go hand-in-hand with 'omni'.... |
eisen0169, Thanks for that, it was a pleasure to read such an informative post! It just confirms that when these giant corporations such as JVC, Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha etc really put their minds to it, it's often well worth having a closer look. Especially their loudspeakers. asvjerry, Lincoln Walsh and his interesting designs seem to have somehow become forgotten by the audio world. The new Ohm Walsh speakers (2000/3000) are near the top of my 'must hear' wish list - once the shows can start up again. |
I'm a huge fan of Yamaha products and still own a Yamaha surround sound HTR 5760 receiver from the early 2000's. High current, Top Art equals best possible parts and sounds very good in stereo as well but doesn't do HDMI but i don't care about that. Well enough small talk, I do think you should give these speakers a try as you might be very impressed. |
I'm a little late to this party and many of you are not likely to see my post but for those that do here is something to consider. You can make fun of Yamaha for the reference to a glossy black piano finish but how do you reconcile that with the documentation on Stradivarius instruments which employed a unique varnish that contributes to the quality of the sound? A varnish that cannot be duplicated today was used to produce the best instruments ever. |
All I know is that lacquer is important to piano manufacturers, as its use is correlated to the hammer stiffness/density and consequently the sound character we call brilliance. The lacquer/varnish used by Stradivari is the main reason why his violins can not be replicated. How does it translate to the loudspeakers I have no idea. I remember though that piano lacquer and glue were mentioned in relation to the discontinued Bosendorfer speakers which were rather special. It may depend on design. If Yamaha use the "sounding board" principle employed by that Bosendorfer, then the glossy lacquer will definitely affect the sound. If the cabinet is damped, then it does not matter whatsoever. |
I have used varnish on black colored tweaks for the past decade. Different colors give a different sound signature. The neutral colors are white or black. White has an open and transparent sound while black has a blacker background, but also dark, muddy and veiled sound. By using varnish on top of black paint you compensate for the veiled sound and add clarity. This gives good balanced sound. |
Noise is the time varying quiescent output in the absence of an input signal and/or independent of the input signal. In speakers, noise, by definition, is essentially 0, unless you are claiming it is picking up seismic vibrations from the floor and re-radiating them, on which I will call them out, because the floors and walls will be a far more effective radiator for that, and because that is an external stimulus, so would be akin to showing a frequency response with a truck driving by. If they want to claim it improves THD, or IMD, then that is within the realm of believable as those are signal dependent properties. Given the ridiculous claims that audiophiles accept without calling suppliers out on, is it any surprise that some marketer for a main stream brand would do the same .... without any justification or measurement to support it? |
The smiley face doesn't make your post any more viable or correct. A speaker just sitting there, unconnected, does not create "sound" of any appreciable level, and I have a feeling it would be almost impossible to detect short of being in super quiet anechoic chamber. It won't say no sound, because anything above absolute 0 must "radiate", and the resistance of the voice coils will have thermal noise .... and that is just ridiculously pedantic. If you want to be ridiculously pedantic, a glossy finish would reflect as opposed to absorb ambient "noise" and hence in a real world situation, a gloss finish is likely to result in worse signal to noise. What's that saying, exceptional claims require exceptional evidence? Accepting it as true without being critical just encourages bad behavior. I mean really, look at the people in this thread jumping through hoops trying to justify their statement as correct as opposed to saying, where is your proof, evidence, or even justification. Frankly that is silly. This isn't about feelings, this is about the physical world. |
My remark was not there to insult you in any way....I dont have scientific background, and I have experience for myself with homemade experiments in a continuous way for the last 2 years, many amazing phenomena without any possible measurements yet... I dont claim anything except the right to create homemade amazing low cost tweaks controls for the mechanical, electrical, and acoustical embeddings of any audio system... I create my own Hi-Fi for under 500 bucks that gives me a sound near the best there is....All that by my own experiments …. I am only interested by facts for my own ears... Many of my homemade tweaks will wait a longtime for an explanation especially for the " scientist" audiophile....The last one is totally crazy, but work.... :) If your hobby is to wait for "justification" coming from "audiophiles", mine is to create without money the best Hi-Fi there is, almost free, by only homemade methods controls....And I have it.....Call me a crazy audiophile.... :) |
If Sony says it I would tend to believe it’s probably true. Both my Sony MDR-V700 headphones and Sony WM D3 portable cassette player are extremely revealing. I suspect I could distinguish pure water from Mississippi river water instantly, no problem. Maybe if you candled 🕯 your ears you could hear it too. |
Why? Was Goethe an audiophile? I hate to brag but chances are good that I know more about color and sound than was dreamed of in Goethe’s lifetime.Dont be offended so easily.... My post had nothing to do with you ….And Citation from a past genius dont remove anything from any actual one....And there is more about colors than the facts you brag about.... :) Some Goethean clue: colors are "lived" phenomena.... Not measured facts only.....Same thing for sounds.... |
@tatyana:'Some years ago I read a number of articles that different varnishes can affect sound, so maybe not too far fetched' I understand that both the wood grain and the lacquers on a Stradivarius or Guarneri violin are a significant part of the sound, understandable when the whole body resonates with the strings. For a speaker, with inert cabinets (at least by intent) not so much! |
This just in! Fifth state of matter created on Space Station! Of course, the obvious question, at least for your humble narrator, is what can it do for audiophiles? Answer at 11. "This actually is something I've been trying to do for about 23 years now," Robert Thompson, from the California Institute of Technology, told Newsweek in an email. https://apple.news/AXioUGvq6SfW3OVwCnrH8zw |
Sorry if I already posted this link to the audiophile C37 lacquer from Germany, http://www.asi-tek.com/C37.html |
Sorry geoffkait, but this is old news, very old news. https://www.britannica.com/science/Bose-Einstein-condensate Still it's good to see Bose still relevant in cutting edge technology. |
Amazing, you can take something that probably cost pennies in other industries (like impregnation varnishes and coatings for magnetics), put an audiophile sticker on it, and charge 10-100X. Love it! Sorry if I already posted this link to the audiophile C37 lacquer from Germany, |
roberttdid Amazing, you can take something that probably cost pennies in other industries (like impregnation varnishes and coatings for magnetics), put an audiophile sticker on it, and charge 10-100X. Love it! >>>>Of course you love it. You’re a pseudo skeptic. Duh! 🤔 And don’t think I’m not paying attention to all the stalking, roberttdid, roberttcan, atdavid, whoever you are. |
You used to being not too swift? How did you get used to being like that, going through life with that boat anchor around you .. or was it a bag of magic pebbles on the end of a rope? ... or a directional cable. Yup, that's it .... you are burdened by carrying around a heavy bag of magic pebbles on the end of a directional cable ... with nothing to plug it into, so you just tie it around your waist. |
You are quick with the insults pebble man, but useful information seems to elude you almost as much as you elude self control every time someone mentions digital, and you jump in with scattered laser light. I have to admit though, you aren't a one trick pony. You must be at least a 3 trick pony ... maybe you could be a busker. |
This will never get old ... Hello fuses, my old friend. Geoff has come to talk to you again. Because an electron softly creeping Induced a field while he was sleeping. And the direction, that was planted in his brain Still remains Outside the bounds of science With his Walkman he walked alone Through narrow hallways he calls home Neath the halo of the directional camp He dreams of cables but he has no amp And his eyes were stabbed by scattered laser light That CD wasn’t right It was outside the bounds of science And in the audio forums there he saw Ten thousand “philes”, maybe more “Philes” posting without considering That $15 for a $3 spring is price gouging “Philies” buying things, without even a care Because no one dared To question the bounds of science Robert said, ah you do not know Geoffkait’s posts, like a cancer grow Read his words that fail to teach you Collected thoughts designed to mislead you Because his words, like a teleportation tweak fail Or magic pebbles that are on sale Are outside the bounds of science |
