Mahgister, Perhaps I misunderstand you but your agenda seems to be that one can make cheap gear sound as good as or better than very expensive gear, if one is possessed of a certain wisdom regarding room acoustics and other more superficial tweaks. I think one needs to have both kinds of skill, the skill to spend money (what exactly is worth the expenditure and what is not) and the skill to modify the room and judiciously apply a few tweaks (perhaps) to maximize the listening experience, which in the end is always going to be judged subjectively. But you also cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.
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First : you put in my mouth a completely ridiculous claim, I never said that a low cost system as mine at 1000 bucks can beat a better designed and costlier system when this costlier system/room is UNDER CONTROL in the mechanical,electrical and acoustical working dimensions... I said that a balance between all acoustics factors (i dont speak about mere room acoustic here ) can be optimised and must be optimised to reach a S.Q. level much better according to the system design range of possibilities for sure , modulo the controls over electrical,mechanical and acoustical working dimensions.
By the way the use of Hemlhotz resonators devices and principle are not a cheap tweaks. I dont buy tweaks. i created mine.
Second: Knowing why, how and with what piece of gear to upgrade imply no skill at all about money but imply learned concepts of acoustics with an (S) which most confuse with room acoustic parameters.
There is a subjective core to acoustics, but the objective appreciation and judgment of what is a good system/room is grounded in very precise concepts and parameters including our own ears measurement and HTRF ... Then .... A good system/room is a subjective impression but not so much as you think ...
It is true though that all my posts for 8 years now claimed that it is possible with basic knowledge to create a good system/room experience at relatively low cost between 1000 and 20,000 bucks , passed over a minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold if we learn how to do it... I battle against upgrading race consumerism of people who are lazy and think S.Q. came from buying and only from buying and mostly from buying gear... it is FALSE... it is worst than false it is an half truth that misguide most people ... Acoustics concepts rule audio ...Not price tags ... And dont reduce acoustics to room acoustic with a few wall panels here ... Crosstalk is an acoustics concept... Reverberation time is an acoustics concepts... Timbre is an acoustics complex concepts ... etc |
@lewm +1 |
@lewm +1 yep. you got it. You know -- about the 911's. Ahem. |
Lord, i saw a most delicious 356 in a metallic silver mist green today…. near the coast… Encinitas… just where it belongs…. Tan interior. Some people here are like a dog on the same tired old bone…. No matter the context… or the problem…they bring the same VERY tired 3 headed hammer to every…nail… Lew has a pair of one of the most astonishing stereo speakers from an unconventional acoustical genius… Bev as he was known… Magister you might actually learn something new…. and BTW HRTF is…unique to each individual…just like every seat in a good hall…. imagine the factorial… at work…. |
@grislybutter …When i get back, we will conduct a listening experiment where YOU can evaluate the hotrod P3 w RB330 vs The Bardo / Triplaner using same cartridge… i think at retail its about 12;1….. fun… and informed…. Anything else is just fury before sound |
@tomic601 Cool! I am pretty sure there is a lot that would wow me, my knowledge is so limited. I am a newborn baby in a candy story when I see/hear expensive hifi gear. |
Why do you think i mentionned psychoacoustics and HRTF ?
I mentionned it because some audiophile hypnotized by gear price tag do not even invest in a good dedicated room and more than that put more value in a very costlier dac upgrade than about inner ears measures and HRTF measures for a real high end system at relatively low cost...😁 Ignorance dominate audio world and price tags pilot the wave ...😂
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I cannot but only agree to a common place fact ...😊
What about all the thread about costlier and way costlier upgrades ? This is why i said marketting and ignorance replace basic knowledge never mind the system price ... As you i read what i want but also as i see ... |
I agree with you here ... But my fun was way more learning and experimenting than upgrading the gear... We must stick with a system when we had reach synergy with the various pieces... The fun for me begun there ...With experiments in the various installation aspects (mechanical electrical and acoustical ) If we are in constant upgrade race we had no time to install rightfully a chosen system...It takes me a few years of experiments to do so... |
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I see the purpose of posting here mainly for three reasons:
repeating the same argument a 1000 times, mostly off-topic, with no relevance to the question or topic accomplishes nothing for me. But that's just me. Nothing should prevent you from filling these threads with noise. |
Check all my ouput posts and what you call "noise" could be a meaningful signals for another one ...If not why did i receive friendship by mail ? They are "nuts" as i am for sure,😁 but this does not invalidate my point ...Signal and noise are relative to the receiver filters brain ... You are free to pass over my posts instead on introducing new "noise" which is a signal to anyone else save to write your own complaint because i am not on the political side it seems you yourself said to me few posts ago, which side for you is the right one ...😊 I participated positively on many other threads you dont seems dare to go : as music experience , jazz, piano threads, classical threads, and many others which are not centered on indefinite gear impressions as solutions one after the other or c entered about a specific help question.. ... Read these threads about music and sounds sum what i spoke about there and compared to your own input and say to me that all my posts compared to yours are mostly noise and yours signals ...I will give you a right : i spoke a lot ...Then dont read me it will be more easy than to analyse what i spoke about and you dont like because of my "political" opinion as you interpreted them ...😊 Come back after reading all my posts since january and describe your reading experience to me and listenings experience too because i proposed a tons of links about articles and books about music and sound and many music album+ philosophical reflection about sounds meanings and perceptions.. Now if you come here to read marketing piece of specific gear and users thousands dacs recommendation pass over my posts ... You are right i dont sell gear... I am noise because i sell creativity and music and acoustics interests ...😊 |
Nope, it’s not just you. We can all smell the landfill. Boy, it stinks, and no one can get a post in without it responding. Pestilent. I suggest we take the John Houseman approach in Paper Chase. |
@hilde45 some forum engines have a filter option, where you can (un)select users never to see their comments. I would sure use it. |
Is an honest person who speak his mind about me and he will not harass me regularly as you did since you came here reading my posts and repeating the same arrogant patronizing spit for one year now ... Even after you said you will not begin again in private but hate is such 😁 ... You repeated and repeated your critic on my posts NEVER answered my arguments on anything but harassed me by patronizing about my style and syntax ... As you said you are a corrector known around the world ..😁 Indeed and i believe you ... You are so mean you trail now a person speaking his mind about me just to spit instead of attacking any arguments in my posts .. Small mind unwilling or unable to throw arguments.. I am not like you i can even approve some of your posts as i just did one week ago ... Unlike you i entertain no grudge or hate here againast anyone BUT I ANSWER to one who attack me on the spot ... You are a small man ...
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As for very expensive Audio Equipment, very few get to have demo's of it usage in an environment ideal to enable the end sound to be heard at its best. To encounter a large arrangement of High Expense Audio Equipment, the venue to do this will most likely be a Trade/Commercial Show. Such an environment will only allow the surface to be scratched of what can be the end produced sonic. My developed attitude, is to go with a very open mind, give all demo;s a very similar time scale and try and listen to tracks that have a familiarity to oneself before becoming too critical of what is being demo'd. The outcome usually is, there are systems heard, where certain devices are easily identifiable for being unattractive and unwanted in the home system. The Flip side, is that devices will be discovered that are creating a stimulus and attraction, the interesting thing usually is the difference in pricing for similar levels of stimulus produced and attraction can be separated by $100K+ as the purchase price. Uber expense is not absolute to have a very enjoyable Audio Experience. |
@lewm +3 Mike |
@grislybutter Like mosquito netting. I like it. Also, helpful for screening out ad hominem attacks. |
The context for me in these lower price, value vs. affordable and on up to the extreme levels of manufacturing leading to ownership....
It is not the plethora of biases that get laid on the owners by the other camp...its the personal bias of where they come from that is ignored by the very ones accussing the other of that same thing... Justifying your own situation by shooting at the other side.. Its circular stupidity where relevance and context never acknowledge each other. The better the best is, the more that better can trickle downhill where costs can meet with each individuals needs and ability to secure it. Like music, there are many choices to fit everyone. Cheers
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Hey! Patronizing corrector where in any thread in the last year did i harass you with critics ? go and gives us an exemple where i criticize you with no arguments and just as you do with me for a year patronizing about my posts incorrection ? You did it toward me at repetition ? I treated you with apology , congratulations and when i discussed with you i had my logical arguments not a harassing tactic... How do we call someone stiring the pot others begun to stir for "politics reason" asking hypocritally for a filter option when it is simple to ignore his posts ? We call him a hypocrit and a hurted child .... Read Carlo Cipolla and say to me if the definition fit your tactic or me... If it fit me i will quit audiogon forever ...Try it
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@dogberry Good one! My room has a nice stereo in it (and mosquito netting) so I’m headed there now! (And I'm keeping the post short because I don't have logorrhea.) |