Turntable Advice?

Good work cakyol. It seems that many people do not have a lot of experience with appropriately designed suspended turntables. Once you own a SOTA , SME or Basis it is highly unlikely you will return to an unsuspended table. They are that much better. It is nice to see SOTA moving the project forward with meaningful advances to the motor and bearing. The only thing I would like to see is a version of the Cosmos that can take a heavy or long tonearm.

Another +1 vote for keeping your Sota. 

http://www.hifigem.com/PolyTableSUPER12.html

Thank you bdp24.

The motor is NOT AC.  The terminology 3 phase DC means that it is a brushless DC motor where the windings are excited by a switching DC power supply which turns the power on & off to the correct winding at a very fast pace such that the fixed magnet in the motor tries to "keep up" with it, hence the rotation:

Check this out, especially page 8:
https://www.monolithicpower.com/pub/media/document/Brushless_DC_Motor_Fundamentals.pdf

These motors last a long time coz there is no grinding brush to wear off but the driving electronics has to be spot on and are very complicated.

Apparently my post of an hour or two ago never made it. What I said then was that the term “three phase DC synchronous motor” is an oxymoron, because DC has no phases by definition.  DC motors that do operate off AC convert AC to DC within the body of the motor. What is probably going on is that the phoenix derived controller operates on the AC side, thereby controlling the DC motor. Also, a stock TNT may well be superior to an original Star Sapphire but all bets are off if the SOTA has the Eclipse mod, in my opinion of course. I wouldn’t arm wrestle over it.

@lubachi, Phoenix Engineering closed down when the Falcon and Eagle PSU and Roadrunner were discontinued (those were the company's only three products). PE design engineer/owner Bill Carlin posted a lot of info on the design of his products on the VPI Forum, which are still available for reading.

I am unable to find a website for Phoenix Engineering.  Does anyone know if they are still in business.  

I have had a Clearaudio Concept for 6 months now. 
I chose to fit it with the Virtuoso cartridge. I have never achieved such a good sound. The turntable itself is superb, in my opinion.

Thank you all so much.  I'm weighing my options with Donna at SOTA.
Bigwave, your post in particular is quite inspiring.  There were reasons I fell in love with the SOTA and SME V almost 30 years ago - this has been an excellent wake up call.

Just went through the same exercise, almost, with the arm. Everyone recommended keeping the arm. They are correct.  No doubt, keep it. Mine was from the late 1980’s so it went back to SME and now it’s new to spec. I changed the phono cables to Steven Huang’s Audiosensibilty  silver series, chose an Audio Technica ART 9 cart and I can’t believe what I have.  With the fixed head shell mount and different overhang for that cartridge than would be standard from SME, I sought the service of Yip Wai Hon of Best Tractor Mint (mintlp@hotmail.com) for the proper alignment protractor. Invaluable. Amazing results. I am in awe of my vinyl collection now. 

Turntables are MUCH better now than a few years ago - get a Clearaudio Concept!

motor broke.... get a motor....

No response from SOTA yet.  Mijostyn, is the new platter intended for the Star Sapphire (vaccuum hold-down)?

Any cartridge recommendations?  My pre-amp (Classe 6) has a MC switch that adds 22db (57db total).  I hope to have $1k left in my targeted outlay after the SOTA upgrades.

Thanks again everyone.

YUP

I believe we’re talking about 3 phase AC, not DC. The Phoenix design is for driving 3 phase AC. I think the old SOTA motor might be DC type.

Send your table back, get the total eclipse package which is a new DC motor, drive and regulator. Also get the new platter and bearing. The new bearing has no thrust plate. The platter sits on opposing magnetic fields like the better clear audio tables. 
Keep the SME V. The only arm I would consider in that table otherwise would be the Kuzma 4 point 9 for lower compliance cartridges. These two arms are superior to any of the arms you mention. 

@keegiam, your worn-out motor provides you with the perfect excuse to spring for the new SOTA 3-phase DC motor, along with the Phoenix Engineering-designed motor controller made expressly for it, and the Roadrunner tach.

The original electronics used a feedback system to check platter speed.  Sounds like something with the feedback or servo is broken.  Probably your motor is OK, but if SOTA recommends a new motor to go with the Phoenix electronics, I cannot over-state the benefits to be derived from letting them do it. You'll be amazed.

Funny story: about 25-30 years ago, when SOTA first came upon the scene, they offered a turntable as a kit.  A friend of mine who was a very capable engineer decided to build the kit.  When he got the turntable completed, I was invited for its maiden voyage.  The object was just to see if it worked. We sat across from each other at a table upon which the SOTA was supported.  He pressed the start button, and at first we were both pleased to see the platter start to rotate and quickly reach what was apparently the correct 33 rpm.  However, it didn't stop there; it continued to accelerate, faster and faster until I thought it was starting to rise up on the spindle, and I feared it would literally take off and hit one of us. I thought seriously about ducking under the table for protection. Fortunately, at that point he cut the power, and we both started laughing.  He had miswired that servo feedback loop.

Thank you all.  Never have I seen such unanimity on a discussion topic!  I will get in touch with SOTA today.
I had read extensively on the web that the Pabst motors were no longer available and that SOTA was not properly supporting its customers.  Should have checked with them directly.
lewm, the table's speed fluctuates wildly - not slight pitch change.  Maybe you've figured it out, because the motor does still turn.

miller, this is why I usually have pros do everything.  I'm kind of hapless and lack confidence that I'll get it right.  I'll see what SOTA suggests and give it a try myself first.

Just to be clear, although I did use the words “repair your turntable”, I was not implying that the OP should actually do the work himself. I went on to suggest he send it to SOTA for the Phoenix upgrades and a new motor, if a new motor is even needed. SOTA can advise on the condition of the motor itself. They may even have upgraded the motor in connection with their adoption of the Phoenix electronics, since the latter is designed to drive a 3-phase AC synchronous type.

Wow. So much great advice! Am I on the right website? Or maybe its just that the analog guys actually know their you-know-what?

Anything around this level you're usually a lot better off fixing/improving than selling/trading. The only thing that concerns me is the bit about having it all set up by a local pro. None of this is anything you can't do yourself. Its just not that hard. If I can build a whole turntable from scratch then I am pretty sure you can swap out a motor and install a cartridge.

But don't just swap it out. Listen to lewm and upgrade. It'll be a little more work but improvements like this in turntables are awesome. You know immediately what contributed to what. As opposed to buying a new table which leaves you totally in the dark in terms of why it sounds different/better, this way you actually learn something. No more wondering, you KNOW something for a change. Plus the jolt of confidence you feel knowing YOU did it, that my friend you cannot even begin to put a price on.

What tomwh said.  Repair your turntable and add the Phoenix controller system.  It will be a huge upgrade, in my opinion, because, in my opinion, a major issue with the old Sota Sapphire was speed stability.  I owned one for 10 years before figuring that out.  Also, you say the motor has "gone bonkers".  Can you explain further?  If the motor still operates but speed is very inaccurate (I mean beyond the slight wavering of pitch), then the problem may lie in the electronics that control the motor, not in the motor per se.  That would be a win/win for you, if you send it to Sota.  They could repair the problem by installing the Phoenix designed controller in place of the original electronics.  Also, by all means keep the SME V vs any of the tonearms that come with the mediocre turntables you listed.  And finally, get a new cartridge if that would please you, or don't. That part is icing on the cake.

Have to agree with all the above, your SOTA table and arm combo are much better than anything on your list. Just checked SOTAs  web site and they offer the Eclipse package for less than $1,100.00 which includes the Eclipse motor, Condor power supply and the Roadrunner speed controller and these should be quite the upgrade in your vinyl set up as it exists now. Enjoy the music and good luck.

Might talk to Sota if they make a conversion kit with the new Phoenix motor controller/motor.  They are ones selling it.

Enjoy the ride
Tom

Yeah, call SOTA and discuss options. They do a lifetime trade-in and full service on older tables.

Turntables are very basic and easy to fix.  SOTA has excellent customer service and sells parts for their legacy tables.

roberjerman

+1 on the new motor from SOTA.

OP, none of the turntables mentioned have a tonearm as good as your SME

Get a new motor from SOTA. Keep the SME V arm. How's your cartridge doing? I just saw the ad in Stereophile for the new line of AT OC9 mc cartridges - quite reasonably priced!