@grannyring rannyring Thanks for all the thought you’re putting into this question. I’m in Denver, so I’ll go with a good local tech on this.
A couple follow ups if you don’t mind:
First, about the amp: you wrote,
It also has 2 white QS branded caps that are an odd value .27 uf. Most all caps come in .22uf. Don’t just replace with .22uf. You want to match the .27uf value. Both Audience XO and Sonicap Gen 1 from Sonic Craft have .22uf and .047uf value caps that can be combined in parallel for the .27uf value. They are both not expensive.
You mention the odd value .27 uF. That struck me, too.
QUESTION: But if the combination you mention (Audience XO and Sonicap Gen 1) to equal that value is as you put it, “not expensive,” would the upgrade be worth the surgery? You did say that “Both the Audience XOs and Sonicaps are also a nice step up” — so perhaps you’ve addressed this concern in your later post?
Second, when you say,
I would replace with the Mundorf caps. They will improve sonics a little. Better bass and a touch more clarity. Not expensive and easy to do since the preamp is already disassembled. I would add one bypass film cap to each Mundorf electrolytic. A bypass cap is simply one cap soldered in parallel. Use a .22 uf to .47uf Audience XO or Sonicap Gen 1.
QUESTION: …are you talking about the black caps in the preamp, again? You had suggested that I “replace the [black] 4 - 47uf 500v filter caps with Mundorf M-Lytic HV 500V 2-Lead Single Section Axial cap from Parts Connextion.” So, are you now amending this to reaffirm that suggestion but adding another cap along with it?
I’m sorry to not be following easily. We're got two different units here (preamp and amp) and various caps and parts. I'm compiling a table to order correctly. I need to instruct the tech who will be doing the work and so if I’m not clear on it, he won’t know what I need.
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Yes on the .27uf combo from Audience or Sonicap. Both should be a step up. I am basing this on the parts quality used throughout the amp which are modest. Someone is making the QS caps, but I am fairly certain they are not quite up to the Audience XO level of quality.
Yes on the 47uf preamp caps. I added the bypass idea which is a no brainer and will yield sonic improvement. Look up the dimensions of this Mundorf cap and be sure they will fit. Just make sure. I bet they do, but…… |
I swapped out Gold Lion 6SN7's for NOS Ken-Rad's in an amp and got more bass definition and depth, which I liked in my system. The Gold Lions might be smoother on higher frequencies. Not cheap on a per-tube basis, but no big deal in the overall allotment of audio funds. |
@grannyring Thank you. I'll communicate with my tech on this. The additional bypass cap is not something I anticipated and we'll discuss. |
Do grannyring's suggestions, these may be end game pieces for you then. While I've not yet tried the ODAM, I will drop them in my phono pre in a bit. Reportedly right up there in sound quality with best, and their relatively smaller size vs. film caps makes them better, easier fit. Other parts he mentioned I've heard or modded with, all good. I'm using the Airlock for all my diy power cords, better than Duelund here.
I'm using combo of silver litz and Duelund copper internal wire, Duelund silver bypass cap on power supply in my custom 300b monoblocks. Flavor wise, wonderful timbre, extension on top, controlled bass. I know the silver internal wire and Duelund silver bypass has much to do with attainment of this sound quality. I'd presume the ODAM with Airlock silver would be avenue for you.
I'm not sure all techs will take on custom work, many frown on customer spec'd parts substitution. Don't want the liability if you're not happy with sound and/or don't trust you're substitutions are correct for circuit.
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I'm not sure all techs will take on custom work, many frown on customer spec'd parts substitution. Don't want the liability if you're not happy with sound and/or don't trust you're substitutions are correct for circuit. I'll need to confer with him. Doing caps with exact value matches and not much else would be a decent upgrade and would minimize risk. The preamppot seems very doable We'll find a happy consensus, I'm sure. |
just a few additional thoughts for your consideration @hilde45 as you explore this element of hifi-nerd-geekdom :)
in my experience, by far the best context in which to mod high end gear is if -- a) you are committed to keeping the piece of gear for the long term, and b) you yourself are quite experienced in disassembling, reassembling gear, soldering, desoldering, and choosing components - second best way is to have a well trusted, highly cost effective local tech to do the skilled labor
reasons being
-- it costs something non trivial to ship/ship back a stereo component, with attendant damage risk in shipping
-- when soldering in even passive components, there is some risk of damaging the pc board or making other internal connections frail, with unforeseen issues, thus the skill, diligence and experience of the tech is absoutely crucial here
-- trading away a modded piece can be problematic (not always, but sometimes) ... even if you ’restore it back to stock’ to resell, that should be disclosed, and then the market for such a unit will be reduced compared to honestly saying a piece is ’factory original, never altered’
-- there is indeed a market for modded units by well-known modders - dan wright, smc/mccormack, vsei, great northern, and so on from yesteryear -- perhaps bill/grannyring has achieved that level of ’celebrity’ for his mhdt dac mods, but in my experience specific modders become well known for specific modded units, that experienced buyers will honor by paying top dollar prices upon resale
-- of course, modding a name brand component invariably voids any factory warranty, to state the obvious
with the above, i have always been very cautious and reticent about undertaking mods on well known, high value units (i know i don’t solder well, i don’t trust myself to do it to a ’pro’ quality and problem solve issues that may arise) - in fact, i greatly prefer to buy them at a signfiicant discount used rather than pay for the mods to be done, and in the rare instance where i have changed things ’under the hood’, i pretty much resign myself to treating the unit as a ’its mine forever’ unit, or a throwaway if things don’t go 100% right
i know my approach above is rather conservative, and may well elicit ’ aww c’mon man!!’ responses from others who are much more into modding gear, but i just wanted to share my own perspective and experience
i know this is all a fun, and exploratory journey for you -- i hope this helps you and others to hear a perspective from one dedicated enthusiast who has been at it for some time ... |
@jjss49 9
(a) I am committed to keeping this gear.
(b) I would look to a local tech, highly recommended. I wouldn't trust myself to do it anymore than I would trust myself to pick out carpeting on my wife's behalf!
Agree about the ship/ship cost and risk concern.
Good point about the re-sale; Tvad was saying that earlier. My sense is that this unit has really, really good fundamentals and I'd likely be nipping an upgrade bug early if I just take it to a better level, now. Judgement call. I'd rather experiment with speakers and Dacs, etc., down the road, knowing that my tube gear was batting .450
Violating the warranty is a concern, but there's only a little bit more than a year left on it. I could wait, but a caps change seems low risk. I suppose I'm tired of being risk-averse. Could it be the age we live in?
I hear you about the conservatism — I think we're alike. A couple of things are swinging me in this direction:
* Experienced opinion: QS owners who have done these mods are unequivocal in praising the results
* Reality check: This QS gear is not on the level of, say, others — Atmasphere; lots of room to improve; a quick look at some of the parts costs quickly confirms
* Plan B: My solid state can carry me pretty well, if necessary (assuming my preamp is ok)
* Settling the issue: I think it's in my head to do this and I have the time to enjoy the process right now.
All your caveats make a lot of sense — thank you for writing them out.
Sometimes I approach these questions as if they were serious medical procedures; they're not! This is a hobby and I'm trying to slide into the greater ease I see in other hobbyists with, well, trying sh*t!
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@grannyring Yes on the .27uf combo from Audience or Sonicap. Both should be a step up. I am basing this on the parts quality used throughout the amp which are modest. Someone is making the QS caps, but I am fairly certain they are not quite up to the Audience XO level of quality.
Yes on the 47uf preamp caps. I added the bypass idea which is a no brainer and will yield sonic improvement. Look up the dimensions of this Mundorf cap and be sure they will fit. Just make sure. I bet they do, but…… Yes, agree. Modest at best on the stock caps in the amps and preamp. Studying a bit inside, maybe Solen or Sonicap ? is OEM with the odd .27uf on the amp IT side and 2.0uf in the preamp. The mfg owner-designer shared he likes aluminum foil caps. There are four $4 715P Orange Drops in these amps on the OT side. Replaced those on mine after year one, along with a five+ others who followed here on A'gon. Yep, a no-brainer. I was astonished at the results, making the simple cap upgrades for these very solid amps which already have good bones. |
grannyring has good advice above. I like the VCap Odams much. They are also easy to work with size wise. But you'll need to tell your tech that their bodies are somewhat conductive. I wrap them in silicone tape prior to install. I would simply start with the coupling caps and output caps (typically located right before the lines running to RCA outputs). If it's a preamp you are upgrading, you can match your output cap better to your amp if they are of different brands. There's a nice calculator on the VCap website for this purpose.
I was never able to find a tech that wanted to assist with modifications. It's kind of like taking your car to a service place and asking them to install specialty muffler, brakes, etc. They typically aren't jazzed to do it and they look at the vehicle as if it were an appliance--not to be touched from the engineer's design.
I've experienced far more meaningful results upgrading caps/resistors than I have playing with hookup cables/power cords (I do that too but I just hear more of an improvement from the other stuff).
One warning you didn't get yet---It's slightly addictive. I spent $900 upgrading my crossovers on my loudspeakers. I bought Cornwall IVs but would have loved Volti speakers (didn't want to spend $10k). The crossover upgrade got me where I wanted to be.
Modifications can keep me from upgrading by allowing me to get more out of a design I already love. A Ford Mustang or even Chevrolet Corvette are built to a price point--they are not a Rolls Royce. So there's a good foundation to make improvements to your specialized taste. Enjoy your journey!
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@jbhiller I would simply start with the coupling caps and output caps (typically located right before the lines running to RCA outputs). If it’s a preamp you are upgrading, you can match your output cap better to your amp if they are of different brands. There’s a nice calculator on the VCap website for this purpose. Thanks for weighing in. Help me understand -- you say the "output caps" are "typically located right before the lines running to RCA outputs." My amp only has RCA inputs. I’m looking at a picture of the inside (at my system page, hilde45 ) and I’m trying to determine which caps you mean. As for the preamp caps, I AM intending to modify BOTH the preamp and the amp. Your advice helps me because I’m leaning toward Mundorf for the amp and then could do VCAPs on the preamp. |
I would not use Mundorf film caps for your amps. They are rather tipped up in the upper midrange and can sound a tad too brilliant and artificial. This is compared to the better sounding caps like Vcap Odam, Jupiter copper foil, Jupiter HT and others. These other caps are more coherent top to bottom. I am referring to the Supreme silver/oil and silver/gold/oil caps. I am not referring to their line of electrolytic capacitors.
My experience after using them several years ago.
If you are looking for some tipped up energy in the brilliance area, then the Mundorfs may be a good choice.
The film caps I pointed earlier are all coupling David. The 2.0 uf white caps in your preamp are output caps sometimes called output coupling. You can use the Odam 2.2 uf there. In this output position 2.2uf is perfectly fine. This position is not the same as the stage coupling caps we discussed not changing the value of. |
Re: Mundorf EVO Silver-Gold (non-oil) version sku #80510 is smoother, .22uF 1000vdc, and is not "tipped up". Actually, the non-oiler version caps are better sounding than the Silver Gold Oil (SGO) version with oil in amps. Yes, the opposite of what most might think about adding "oil". I learned this from an amp designer colleague when using them in my larger Cary amps, Cary preamps, and now using them again in my Quicksilver Mono 120s with KT150 tubes.
>>They DO sound more pronounced until fully settled in. Easy to get impatient<<
Kinda discovered this by accident after not wanting "oil" caps that dry out in my prior big amps that get hot. 200hr burn-in required on the non-oiler version cap too, and it is an aggravating roller coaster ride before the EVO silver-gold non oil caps truly form and stabilize to their final set point. Sounds nice when they do.
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Yes, the EVO line is not as tipped up. Agreed. I have used them in crossovers where I needed larger values and had little space. |
Look at Miflex films as a competitive alternative to Jupiter/Dueland. |
"@grannyring ...You can use the Odam 2.2 uf there. In this output position 2.2uf is perfectly fine. This position is not the same as the stage coupling caps we discussed not changing the value of." grannyring, interesting, I wanted to ask you about this for hilde45 if you felt jumping from 2.0 to 2.2uf was okay or not for the QS LS. Not seeing a lot of 2.0uFs out there any more like the old vintage stuff. Good to know. 2.2 it is! |
Thanks and I'm glad to see some agreement about the non-oil Mundorf SG's.
It's confusing enough to choose between brands, let alone there being such differences within a brand.
And, as opposed to tubes, once these pups are soldered in it will be a harder call to reverse them. |
Don't know if you're aware, but Humble homemade has reviews on most top line caps, will give you some idea of sound qualities.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the top rated copper films, the Mundorf Evo might work if you didn't go with silver internal wiring. I'm just thinking you're looking for spaciousness, more extension on top, reason for silver. You also may not need any silver, that's up to you. |
Just came across post from Aric of Aric Audio. States he prefers the Miflex to ODAM in his amps and pre's. Just goes to show you're going to find all sorts of preferences in caps and most other boutique parts.
I like the Miflex, Audyn True Copper Max, VH Audio cutf, Mundorf Evo, Jupiter copper film, Duelund copper, these all among the best, again, sure odam right up there. Personally, I wouldn't sweat it, get any of these, your amp and pre will be so much better.
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@sns Thanks! It's like speakers -- many good ones out there, can only try so many!
I am looking especially among QS folks, with some eye to what they like in an amp. That said, they'll have different rooms, different speakers, etc. It's a crapshoot. But a better quality part will, whatever its character, offer more of some basics, whichever particular subset they happen to be. |
That is funny. I dislike Miflex. Far too forward sounding to me. I replaced them in my integrated amp and past tube dac with Odams. The Odams were clearly better in every sonic parameter. Now Vcaps do take awhile to burn in. Longer than Miflex. Wonder if he did not give them 150-200 hours! If not, that is why. The Odams can sound constipated and bass shy initially.
I know the Miflex very well. Just can’t get past how pushed forward the stage is. I know two other builders who now offer Odams over Miflex based on listening tests.
Go figure. |
There is no such thing as universally better parts—the right part is a matter of both particular design and taste of the listener. That means trial and error and a willingness to accept that the majority of changes will be for the worse (the original builder having already chosen something that works reasonably well, your somewhat random change is likely to be positive). It is not necessarily the case that parts that are popular will be to your liking.
A custom builder I know passionately hates Mundorf caps and can tell when they are in amps and speakers just by there particular sonic signature. Another builder I know was in some distress when the “cheap” Black Beauty volume pot was no longer made because they worked so well in his designs; cost was no object in his builds, yet he did not like some very expensive alternatives.
Sometimes the right parts are very specific to the way the product is used. A local dealer/builder upgraded one of his customer’s amps with Blackgate coupling caps. The customer had auditioned and liked the upgrade in the shop, but when he took his amps home the result was disappointing. It took some effort for the dealer to determine that the owner tended to listen in short sessions while the dealer’s gear is on for many hours before the customer heard it. It turned out the Blackgates needed the long warmup to sound its best in this particular amp. |
Do you know what brand caps Mike uses? All the caps in my Quicksilver gear are labeled Quicksilver ( some made in France ). You might be spinnin’ your wheels changing out the caps. You should give Mike a call and ask him what brand he puts in his gear! http://quicksilveraudio.com/accessories/ |
@larryi I do appreciate your warnings and thanks for weighing in. There is no such thing as universally better parts—the right part is a matter of both particular design and taste of the listener. Didn’t mean to claim that. That means trial and error and a willingness to accept that the majority of changes will be for the worse (the original builder having already chosen something that works reasonably well, your somewhat random change is likely to be positive). It is not necessarily the case that parts that are popular will be to your liking. I totally agree. The idea that it would be *necessarily the case* that popular parts will be to my liking would be a very bad bet, indeed. It’s not the *popularity* of the parts, by itself, that makes it a good bet to try these changes. It’s the quality of the parts. Sometimes the right parts are very specific to the way the product is used. This makes sense to me. And yet the reason I’m likely to move ahead with this change is that (a) while it’s possible that the fairly inexpensive caps in this amp are the "right" parts it seems plausible they’re there because it suits the design *and* also meets the economics of pricing and availability for these units; (b) other QS owners of this gear report benefits from these changes; (c) owners of other tube gear report benefits from their upgrades; (d) it’s all reversible for not that much money. If you were making great lasagna with great sauce (QS transformers, wiring), but with modest quality meat and pasta (some of the parts being considered for swap out, here) and someone suggested trying the same recipe with much better ingredients, it would be hard to resist taking things to the next level. It’s possible that the recipe completely relied on the modesty of some of the ingredients, but my guess is that better ingredients would improve things even further. @yogiboy I have found the Orange drop caps online for less than $5. I would replace them with much better caps. The other strange value cap 27uF seems to be Solen. @decooney has done the homework on these caps. I have not seen reports that they are special or from France or whatever, but perhaps there’s been variation over the years. It looks like there are plenty of people who have upgraded to much better caps in Quicksilver amps. Couple finds: https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=amp&n=156482&highlight=quicksilver+caps&se...https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649264974-quicksilver-tube-mini-monoblocks-with-latest-upgraded-... |
besides the caps, you may want to also consider MILLS wire wound or Dale wire wound resistors for the plate and cathode values. Much more detail and better resolution due to the lower noise floor offered by the wire wounds over the metal film or worse yet, metal oxide. |
Greetings! I've used the Odams in two SETs, a PP amp and a two stage DC coupled preamp as the output coupling caps so far (I still have them in the preamp as an alternative "flavor" to compliment a couple of amplifiers). They all have over 500 hours on them. With the exception of the preamp, I found that they sound congested in the lower midrange and upper bass even after burn in, but are very nicely extended on both extremes. The Miflex can sound forward in some circuits, and I've found sound best when there is only one coupling cap in the circuit (otherwise the upper registers tend to sound vague and lack focus). I recently ordered a dozen Miflex KFPM, which are copper coil and metalized poly and have been burning in a pair. They remind me of the Audyn True Copper, but with much better detail and extension and the same midrange body and texture. They present incredible delineation throughout the range, albeit I'm getting a little brightness on the top end which I'm hoping will smooth out with burn in time. Jeff at Sonic craft recommended these to me, and they are one of his bang for the buck favorites. In the end, not all components will produce the same results with the same upgrades and the overall system voicing will dictate what sounds best. Look at it as a chef's spices, and you'll realize not every recipe tastes good with the same blend. Best regards, Aric |
@aricaudio Thanks for the comments on the Odams. I'm planning on just the preamp for them. Will likely avoid the Miflex. In the end, not all components will produce the same results with the same upgrades and the overall system voicing will dictate what sounds best. Look at it as a chef's spices, and you'll realize not every recipe tastes good with the same blend. So much (all?) in this hobby depends on the specifics involved, from source to room. It's all semi-guessing. My premise is simple: try better parts that other owners of the same gear have found beneficial and reverse it if it doesn't work out. |
@hilde45 - You're very welcome! I definitely wouldn't rule out the Miflex as there's many folks out there that really love them. I also wouldn't rule out Audyn True Copper, V-cap Odam, or many of the other fine capacitor upgrades that we have to choose from!
All the best in your endeavor, Aric |
Wow. The Odams never sound congested in the over 20 units I placed them in. In audio it seems nothing is ever absolute. We get that. I know Jeff at Sonic Craft likes the Miflex. The Jupiter copper caps sound better, but he no longer sells them. He will push what he carries and that makes sense. He told me the Miflex sounded as good or better than the Jupiter copper foils for less money so I tried them. I just cannot agree. They are too forward sounding in the electronics and crossovers I placed them in. The Odams were the best of the lot. Just my opinion.
Some like that forward, front row perspective and that is a subjective preference for sure. This is why nothing is absolute. Builders have sonic preferences just like the rest of us.
The one thing I find strange however is the congested comment on the Odams. I have never heard it. No other comment I have heard or read suggests this either. This is an outlier opinion that has me scratching my head my a little 🤓. However, I greatly respect Aric and his builds. He does great work and that is a fact! |
@grannyring With regards to Jeff selling what he carries- it’s just the opposite. He carries what customers want and expressed to me that even though he believes the KFPMs to sound better than the KPCUs, he has sold over 2,000 KPCUs and about 66 KFPMs. He keeps up with what there is demand for and is a stand up guy. I just wanted to address that point, the rest with regards to caps is opinion. All that matters is that you enjoy the music! Thank you for the kind words, and respect :-) |
Agreed. My point is vs Jupiter caps and those are not being carried for other reasons beyond what we want as I understand it.
Jeff at Sonic Craft is a great guy and I have learned a great deal from him. Big plus for the industry! I will try the other Miflex caps based on your comments here. I have only tried the KPCUs based on Jeff’s suggestion. |
Yes Solen Fast caps are made in France. They could very well be used by QS. They are the very definition of modest quality…at best. Dull and flat sounding compared to the better ones mentioned here. Used by many builders because they are very low cost. Some builders do have real cost constraints to contend with. |
I agree with granny again. Miflex are really great caps but they are forward (not harsh though) in their presentation. I've never heard an ODAM sound congested. At the risk of sounding VCap biased, maybe the Odam was revealing something in the source component?
I also love the British made ClarityCap. I like them (personally) a touch more than Audyn's higher end stuff. The good to best ClarityCaps can sound holographic and surreal while being pretty neutral.
Auricaps are great on a budget.
Mundorfs are overall great caps. I just like the other options for my taste.
If you really want to experiment, you could buy the Musical Paradise preamp, which allows you to roll coupling caps as the unit uses binding posts (like speaker posts) for coupling caps! Very cool. I picked one up for $500 and use I to test out cap sounds. I know, though, that the results are a skewed by the circuit too, yet this preamp has a fairly simple design.
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For clarity and to conclude my posting, my post is to offer alternative viewpoints in case the OP wanted to try something different. Considering the same issue is not there with other caps, I would rule out other variables. No intention of bumping elbows here. |
@grannyring Yes Solen Fast caps are made in France. They could very well be used by QS. They are the very definition of modest quality…at best. Dull and flat sounding compared to the better ones mentioned here. Used by many builders because they are very low cost. Some builders do have real cost constraints to contend with. Yes, " modest quality" at best. A little "dull and flat" is a good way of describing it. The bottom line is the stock caps in the amps are built to a low price point. Well built amps and super affordable, yes. 95% of the regular customers are okay with the good sound and reliability in stock form. Makes good business sense for QS. The retail price is far below many others, and this is partly why. The other 5% of us over the past two decades+ who’ve upgraded caps want to get even more out of the venerable QS monos. Upgrading with high-end well made caps (many mentioned on this thread) and better input/driver tubes allowed me to keep the amps, liking them now much more than originally anticipated. Amazing what these small and affordable changes did for the sound and added musical enjoyment. For added confidence, read through old and recent threads on AudioAsylum, DIYAudio, and other forums and you’ll find members who’ve completed these exact same upgrades on their QS amps with success. If you are going to do it, buy the best caps you can, it will likely pay off for you. Best of Luck. |
excellent discussion and exchange of ideas from several experienced, well meaning, classy, knowledgeable folks
a pleasure to read and learn from |
Very enjoyable, civil, and educative thread. Really appreciate your experience, your cautions, your calculations about benefits/detriments, and your descriptions of the many factors which make it hard to claim too much certainty about a lot of this.
I started this thread on the edge of a diving board, and now I feel confident to yell "Cannonball!"
I'll try to report back down the road. |
Beware making changes in well designed gear.
I have seen both John Curl and David Berning deplore such 'improvements, saying that if they had wanted more expensive components in a given circuit they would have put them there - they designed for sound, not price.
And if you are talking about as market gear, I doubt that any substitution will make much improvement compared to buying a well designed piece of gear, even if it turns out to be pricy. (Sadly, there is lots of pricy gear that fails to give good sound too.....)
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Had a few of coupling caps failed in a few tube amps, my current pre replaced all coupling and power supply caps with Vcaps, Mundorfs, and Jupiter.
Replaced IEC inlet with Furutec and went to Amperex tubes.
That said, things become more reliable but can change the sound for better or worse.
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@wsphohn I appreciate your opinion. I’m not swayed. This gear, as Grannyring and decooney have pointed out, is clearly built to a price point. It is not in the league of better Curl or Berning gear. A $4 Orange cap as being intentionally part of an amp design? That does not strike me as plausible an explanation as the price point explanation. The preamp came with $13 tubes in it. Should I have left them alone? (I realize tubes may be a different thing...but still.)
The testimony of other owners of this gear is that it very much advances the gear into another level up -- so, rather than spending thousands more for another preamp and amp, I’ll spend hundreds. Everything is reversible if I don’t like it.
@terryakhan Things may get better. May get worse. I suppose that this is a level of risk I’m willing to take. That’s what this hobby means, for me at least.
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Can be lower risk and higher reward when high quality-upgrade replacement parts of exact same specs are used and installed by a competent tech.
Watch a Paul M video from PSAudio where they fully acknowledge even their higher end gear is all designed and built to a price point to control costs, keep pricing down, increase profitabilty, not using overly exotic parts. And, then sharing in their other design lab they build and upgrade experimental prototypes built with the best parts available to help determine what is truly possible to achieve the best sound. "What is now proved was once only imagined" ― William Blake
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How about upgrading transformers?
Do QuickSilver amps have high enough quality transformers and they don't need to be replaced?
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Hilde45,
I believe a call to QS is worthwhile. You tell them what you're looking for in sound production. Tell them your system. My guess, your room has as much to do with your dissatisfaction. That aside, QS will give you insights, regardless of getting their ego bruised. It's worth hearing their opinions.
You've received lots of opinions in this thread, which probably has left you with more questions than narrowed your choices for the right direction. I agree with your price point perspective. Lean on that with QS. "I'm assuming this amp was built to a price point, which makes perfect sense. If the price point was $500 higher, what would you have done differently with this amp to improve it, not essentially creating a new amp? Second question, do you offer these upgrades in-house?"
Those questions offer respect and acknowledgement of their intentions of quality. You also lean on them for their opinions and technical expertise. If they still get bothered, then you go elsewhere...I doubt they will.
Send me a pm here and we can talk more if you want.
Goodluck
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I found a great improvement to my tube amp was to buy a power conditioner this made a big difference! I bought one for like $500 and it worked great!
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I have benefited from other people who have had experience with asking them about this question. It is denied that anything needs to be improved and there is definitely a lack of sympathy for the question itself.
the room is not the issue. The thread covers these things already.
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@ihcho How about upgrading transformers?
Do Quicksilver amps have high enough quality transformers and they don’t need to be replaced?
No on upgrading transformers. They are good, high in quality and function.
The bones of the amp, circuit, transformers, sockets, point to point wiring, is solid. Not naming the transformer manufacturer, they are quite good in stock form. More spec info available in reviews. One of the reasons I bought the amps, powering my larger custom 4-ohm 92.5 db speakers. The amps don’t even break a sweat. Nor do they run hot like many of my former tube and SS class-A amps did.
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In my opinion the type of upgrading you are proposing makes sense for someone who is interested in doing the work themselves (DIY) as a learning experience along with hopefully improving the sound knowing that these changes may or may not improve anything and may even degrade the sound causing you to roll back some or all of what you replaced. The big problem with having someone else do these changes is if a number of items change at one time and the sound does not improve and possibly degrades then, which upgrade created the problem? You need to upgrade one item at a time and listen for a period of time to determine what the differences are and if they were worth keeping. Then do the next. This can get expensive if you are paying someone to do this work, which makes me say it is not worth the time and money. If however you are doing this because of a perceived flaw in your amplifier that you are hoping to improve on then I suggest selling the piece and using that money along with the money for parts and labor that you were going to spend and use all that money for another amplifier that sounds better. On the other hand if you love the amplifier then just work on upgrading the peripherals such; tube dampeners, NOS tubes, higher quality feet, replacing power / interconnect / speaker cables with higher quality ones that sound better to you and possibly upgrading your electrical receptacle along with installing a dedicated circuit to power your amplifier. I believe this route has a better chance of seeing noticeable improvements and would cost about the same, depending on how wild you chose to go. The quicksilver line of amplifiers are well thought out and perform very nicely so paying someone to mess with them does not seem to make sense to me.
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@axo0oxa Thanks for your caution. It creates some indeterminacy to do multiple caps at once, but if it works, it works big. That's a gamble, and if there weren't other quicksilver owners testifying to the benefits, it would be perhaps too much. But there are and so it's not. I'll let folks know. My mind is made up.
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Good for you! Only personal experience will allow you to determine whether benefit worth the cost. I expect you'll find the benefit well worth the cost using any of the top flight caps. And aren't all moves in audio taking a chance, purchasing new equipment is as much, perhaps a greater risk. Too many allow fear of failure to interfere with progress.
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No on upgrading transformers. They are good, high in quality and function.
Good to know. Thanks. @decooney
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