Top 5 Tonearms Newer or Vintage Under 2500 That Will Beat anything above/below 2.5k?
From all your tonearm experiences trials errors comparisons etc is there a Top 5 tonearm list that are known for their musical superlatives in all music ranges and genres? including finer detail nuances feeling, 3d sound but also deep bass and midbass, basspunch. Airy highs. And importantly long hours listening without fatigue. The criteria also to be met are easy setups for all angles vta vfa azimuth anti skating etc The Tonearm must also the ability to use more than just one or two cartridge compatibility.
Probable Turntables to be Used: Garrard 301/401, Lenco, Linn, Thorens 124, Technics 1100 1200 10 or 15.
Heres the list i compiled of ToneArms to pick from. Feel free to mention others.
Tw Raven, D Talea, Graham 2.2/phantom, Moerch, Origin Live, Vpi,
AudioMods
Clear Audio, Stax, Rega, Technics 500/1000, Sumiko, Alphason, Black Widow, One unipivot, Saec, Clear Audio, Basis Vector, Triplanar
Origin Silver, Rega 9, Linn Ittok, Project, Technics 500/1000,
Hello Harold. Just saw your post. I don't like the idea of a nylon interface where I could have a metal-to-metal contact, because I tend to prefer the latter. So I haven't tried the nylon pivot screws.
@vinny55 it's because i have UA-7082 for MC (low compliance), the difference between lighter UA-7045 and heavier 7082 is effective mass and length, since my MM are mostly mid of high compliance the 7045 is nice for them. My personal MC cartridges are mostly low or mid compliance, so 7082 is better.
But in fact an MC can be used on 7045 too if the compliance is not too low. There is an optional subweight provided by Victor to balance heavy headshell and insrease the effective mass.
The only problem is the rubber part infront of the counterweight, it's not easy to find a sample with strong enough rubber, most used samples have serious problem with counterweight. However, i've been able to find a perfect samples (original, not repaired).
Terry and Dave, what are the cartridges that need more mass on the Tomahawk wand to avoid "tracking problems" ? I haven´t experienced such a thing so far, with lowest compliance MCs and highest compliance MMs. I used to, and it´s very easy to use the brass pivot weights supplied with the wand but I only used them on the pivot to prevent that quite micro-level "pivot chatter". Today Vic´s last up-grade the nylon pivot screws as standard eliminates that chatter. Maybe it was chatter that caused that tracking problem ?
I had no tracking issues with a very low compliant (10 cu) Entré-1, a balanced and smooth performer and no listening fatigue. A superb vintage MC for its low price. So my question:
What are the cartridges that need more mass in your experience ?
I’ve got one too. It came "free" along with my Dp80 and a Denon plinth for both. I am leery of that rubber joint in the arm wand and have never used the tonearm due to that. But it does receive a lot of favorable comments and perhaps I’m being too dogmatic. Moreover I admit that there is absolutely no flex in the joint. It might actually be very effective in preventing mechanical energy from the cartridge from reaching the pivot.
I have a Denon 307 with magnetic ant-skate and dynamic damping on the arm tube. A superb arm! Bought it in original box from a Japanese seller on the Bay for less than $400!
cleeds, "This is mistaken. Of course it's difficult to do on a lightweight turntable or one with a very compliant suspension. But something like an SME V on a heavy plinth turntable such as a VPI TNT does allow for the safe adjustment of VTA while a record is playing."
OK. go for it. But my opinion is not "mistaken". It's just my opinion based on my experience, and none of my 5 turntables is lightweight or suspended. You yourself just cited some other factors in favor of not adjusting VTA while an LP is in play, but you're entitled to your opinion in favor of VTA on the fly, as well.
Vinny, I am a bit tired of being included in your little war with Raul.
"VTA adjustment on the fly" is perhaps the most over-stated feature of any tonearm.
Perhaps. One of the problems with on the fly VTA is that when you change VTA, you're changing a bunch of things. Of course you also change SRA, but you're also changing VTF, overhang and tangency and potentially altering azimuth, too. So the notion that changing VTA on the fly let's you "dial in the sound" isn't quite accurate.
Who here has ever tried to adjust VTA while playing an LP, which is
presumably the meaning of the term? Unless you don't care about the LP
or the cantilever, this simply cannot and probably should not be done,
without trauma to either component.
This is mistaken. Of course it's difficult to do on a lightweight turntable or one with a very compliant suspension. But something like an SME V on a heavy plinth turntable such as a VPI TNT does allow for the safe adjustment of VTA while a record is playing.
"VTA adjustment on the fly" is perhaps the most over-stated feature of any tonearm. Who here has ever tried to adjust VTA while playing an LP, which is presumably the meaning of the term? Unless you don't care about the LP or the cantilever, this simply cannot and probably should not be done, without trauma to either component. The phrase should be more like "VTA adjustment that is not a pain in the ass". I don't know what's up with the SME V, but I Iong ago adopted the policy of not using any tonearm that relies solely on a set screw in its base (and gravity) to adjust and maintain VTA. That to me is the main point. I use Triplanar, Reed, Dynavector tonearms, etc, because they all allow for precise and repeatable changes in VTA, up or down. That's the best you can hope for in my opinion. But I would never think of changing VTA "on the fly". By the way, this feature was introduced by Herb Papier in his original design of the Triplanar. (The name is meant to suggest that the cartridge position can be adjusted and stabilized in all 3 planes of spatial orientation.) The Triplanar made it difficult for other tonearm manufacturers not to offer a reasonable method for precise adjustment of VTA.
Hi! Actually I have an 801 I could use those extra parts for. Love the tone arm, and would like get them from you. Can you email me at Hoffman1984@gmx.com Thanks!
I just read and responded to the thread on cartridges and now I'm reading and trying to make sense of this thread. I've come to the conclusion that it's almost like someone strolling down the soda aisle at the supermarket then the liquor aisle trying to come up with different mixtures that will intoxicate in the most pleasant way. Have fun folks. I've already spent too much time on something that is most certainly endless and pointless. I'm out.
@nandric : I wasn`t looking for a prize. : ) @fleschler : VTA adjustment on the SME V is actually easier than you think. You described the process quite correctly, but the adjustment screw does not have to be removed until you have the VTA just right. The adjustment screw is positioned in such a way that it doesn´t impede normal use of the arm.
In addition to the SME V´s clamping bolts, the arm post is held in place by two spring- loaded clamps. This means that even with loosened clamping bolts, the arm post will stay in place.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge concerning the SME V. I haven’t seen one for decades and forgot that it has a VTA adjustment ability. However, it is there and easier than the SME IV per other Audiogon forums but not on the fly. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vta-on-sme-v
nsgarch2,517 posts04-12-2006 2:16pmYou can’t adjust VTA "on the fly" with an SME V. It’s main failing IMO (and I own one).
The arm post is held in place vertically by the clamping action of two captive bolts that go thru the adjustable "sled" base (a really great mechanism that makes adjusting stylus overhang a snap).
There is a removable adjustment screw that you can insert to help you make small changes in the arm height, after loosening the clamping bolts, but you cannot do this while playing a record.
If you want to adjust VTA (really SRA) while playing a record, you should consider a Triplanar, or a Graham 2.2 or Phantom (the Grahams are unipivot design, the SME and Triplanar are bearing pivots)
Now, back to my comment that set it and forget it. I’m using a Benz Ruby 3 which is not a hypereliptical but certainly not a conical stylus shape. It apparently is not as critical in set-up as the former but renders great detail using the SME IV. It took several hours and shimming up and down the post to postition the VTA so that the tonal balance was found to my satisfaction. I’ve kept it there for 12 years. The VTF and VTA were found which sounded best for most LPs. Note that I 100% agree that records can vary in VTA per cutting stylus changes as well as record thickness. It makes playing records more challenging than CDs or streaming. I have probably 7,000 LPs which are not and will never be released in any format again, half of which the master tapes do not exist.
fleshler where it appears more critical to adjust is for differences in the LP cutting angles.
the angles that get cut into LPs "the included angle" vary. The European cutting standard does not match the American one. What does this say about the same album title, one an American pressing, the other Dutch? Every time the cutting stylus is changed (every 10 hours or so) the replacement stylus is never put in at exactly the same angle. Is the conspiracy growing? Ask the folks that cut the records. I have.
It is my opinion therefore that since the cutting angles vary, even with records of same thickness, that unless someone can tell me here on this thread, that they are able to visually see the angle of the cut in the record (the included angle), then VTA adjustment for those so inclined, should be done by ear, since the variables that exist outside that actual record - different rooms, gear and the way we hear, all factor in to what we will hear. Just remember your tonearm, due to physics will change VTF when you adjust for VTA. Differences heard may be due to this. VTF needs to be reset. Only one tonearm keeps VTF the same due to a patented system.
If someone is not VTA anal, and just wants to enjoy the music, use a stylus profile that is not as affected by VTA changes, like a Conical. Ask the cart manufacturer or retipper. You will hear less detail, however you can adjust for tonality once, be done with it and enjoy your music.
Now about those folks that use USB Digital microscopes to set VTA.....
Dear @vinny55 : As I said and can re-read my posts to you I never insult you as you again ( 3-4 times. ) followed insult me as in your last post.
It’s not neccesary to insult some one else especially when that person did not insult you in anyway.
What I posted in your threads is that " makes no sense " what you posted what you ask.
Not only in this thread statements but in other thread ( all makes no sense. ) where you ask to rank 16 different cartridges and that audiophiles as us tell along than cartridge ranking the best tonearm for each one cartridge. Well that makes sense to you but not to me and even in all your threads other gentlemans posted the same: " makes no sense ".
We all live in a free world where you have the rigth to post whatever you want and everyone of us have the rigth to post too with out insulting.
You don’t have the rigth to insult me but you did it and follow do it.
Your audio arguments to give an answer to the " non makes sense " posts were too with no sense. So you have not audiophile arguments to post why makes sense all your threads's statements and if you have it just show it but stop to insult me.
The SME V has an oil trough and is said to have higher rated/durable ABEC bearings. I have the 1989 SME IV version with even older bearings played at least 7,000 or 8,000 hours with no apparent wear on a VPI TNT VI (previously on a VPI 19-4). The arms are less sensitive/critical of VTA adjustment which is somewhat difficult to adjust (but leave it set for the average LP). Some dealers said that the SME is more than adequate for VTA LP variances versus some arms where it appears more critical to adjust for differences in the LP cutting angles. A fine pair of arms all around which will last a lifetime.
^^^^ Why not just unfollow (don’t read) the poster that irritates you. No need to ignore the whole thread. Anyone that is, or was married for XX years has a highly developed system of filtration . Vinny55 - fwiw - re: Raul’s bantering. Replying back will only encourage more. Your choice.
My personal opinion is that once a poster hits 1000 or so posts, any further posts should provide either good A) technical information based on their direct experiences or B) psychological support for Audiophiles (Music Lovers - imo - are well grounded and do not need this support). Laughter is a good form of psychological support.
Since Raul seems to want to turn this thread into a script that would befit a Mexican soap opera, I can only surmise that he is posting for the B category. I have to admit that when he uses the word "rockie" instead of "rookie" it cracks me up. Now I have seen him use the word "rookie", so there you go.
********************************************
Hey Raul - where was that party you referred me to. I did not get an invite.
Dear @vinny55 : Wrong again. If you read each of my posts to you ( to you. ) in no one I said you are stupid instead you did it at least twice as an insult to me.
What I stated is that your thread statements " makes/has no sense ". and I was the only person whom before that " no sense " post ask to you to disclose your audio system for any one of us can give you an advise about. All those advices you received here " makes " no sense " either !
Where am I insulting you as you did it with me? .
I mentioned the overall " stupid " meaning for some one way different from you because as I said and for what you showed here and your other threads you are not a stupid person but some one that need to learn a little on those audio subjects.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R.
jealous? me? because " attention " ? Now, I start to have some doubts on what I think of you.
ct01517 Thank you for your six items a tonearm should address. My modified SME IV falls short on ability to adjust Azimuth (shims only where necessary) and VTA (sprung up or down, difficult to achieve but once set, lock it in). So, the SME IV can achieve great results but is more difficult to use than some of the other arms mentioned. I thought I would replace it someday with a Tri-Planar which is more easily adjustable but a friend told me that VTA is more critical for big differences such as for 140 versus 200 gram records. The SME IV doesn't appear to be so finicky for wide VTA differences, or am I just missing some of the music/can't tell?
I still use an Ultracraft AC 400 for my 78s on a VPI 19-4 but I like the sound of my SME better (especially the bass) and ease of use.
@vinny55 You are most welcome. After all, forums like this are supposed to exist for audiophiles and budding audiophiles to help each other out. They are not designed for arguments or insults. Sonic nirvana is very subjective. My ET II tonearm is mounted on a VPI HW 19 MK IV. I have used many different cartridges on this arm to nice success. I am currently running a VDH Black Beauty SPX on that rig and am quite pleased. I have also used a Lyra Delos and before that a Lyra Clavis on this arm all with nice results. VTA, VTF and Azimuth are very easy to set on this arm and, since it is a lateral tracker no anti-skate is necessary.
I also just recieved a Garrard 301 back from total refurb. I fitted it out with an Ortofon TA-110 arm and my Lyra Delos cartridge. The TA-110 is a heavily damped arm but it works fantastic with the Delos. I'v never heard a Delos sound this good, even with my ET II which I consider a superior arm. I've not yet had the chance to substitute different cartridges on the TA-110 so I can't speak to how well it will work with multiple different cartridges but it makes the Delos sing. Good luck in your search, but, above all, have fun doing it.
@nandric im getting the impression hes jealous of the attention this post is getting because its not his. He wants to be the center of attention. Im angry that many who were enjoying this post have bolted because of these two antagonizers
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