TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

Dear @atmasphere  : Good that we agree about. Now: are you talking of th eamps resistor or the phonolinepreamp resistor loading?

R.

What I learned there and thank's to my self developed test evaluation process was that I not even losted SPL but what I losted and that was the " culprit " of that LIFELESS were the distortion levels that gone way lower and from the " life " came: false life because was for the higher distortion levels.

I've maintained for years that a sign of a good system is that its a lot harder to tell how loud its actually playing. The lower the distortion the more this is the case.


If you are working with any mechanical damping I would be careful to remove any electrical damping (such as the loading resistor) which might be acting as a crude 'tone control' that might color your impressions.

Dear @dronepunk : Thank's, great contribution that cerntainly helps to all of us.

R.

@antinn I reviewed that article. It is unfortunately defective on a number of fronts. They are choosing the data that substantiate their claim instead of the other way around. A good example of this is Fig 23. They show three different situations. A tonearm set up with a resonance freq of 7 Hz, 9.5 Hz and 16 Hz, all using the same cartridge. Only the 16 Hz set up is "damped" (they do not say how). They play a 3 kHz tone through all three and show the trace. From this they are asserting that damping the arm is a good thing to do. 1st of all the 9.5 Hz has the best trace down to - 20 dB. What happens when you play a 20 Hz note? Why did they not show each set up with and without damping? This figure says absolutely nothing!

I tried some fO.q tape on my Tri-Planar arm and hated it.  I also do not use the damping trough.  My TT is an SME 20/2, which does an excellent job of isolating the plinth on its own.  I know that tonearm resonation is partially caused by the vibrations from the record groove but can't help but believe that a lot of these vibrations come through the plinth on tables that are not well isolated from room vibrations.  
Some resonance in tonearm are good.  I guess it's just a matter of how much is good and at what point do they add artifact to the sound.  The fO.q tape is a tweak that was overkill on my tonearm, but has had benefits in other areas of my system.  

Well, since the Sumiko Analog survival Kit is no longer, and Warren Ghel is no longer making the arm wrap, I will share my current secret weapon for tonearm damping wrap.....
Self-Bonding Silicone Wrap or Repair Tape,
also called” Self-amalgamating tape”
there is no adhesive, it sticks to itself...
it comes 1”x 10’,
cut to 1/2” wide and wrapped helically
(half-lapped) and carefully stretching as you go it makes a formidable compression dampening wrap by it SQUEEZING on the tonearm pipe.
It is the closest I have come to a purpose made product. You must try it if you have a troublesome arm such as a Fidelity Research FR-64fx
it is removable but not reusable..
I considered re-packaging and resale but I do not have that kind of time.
though I could use the money for sure!!
It even comes in different colors.....
i am not a wealthy man but like good sound.
good luck
thanks, Johnny

Dear @rauliruegas,

FWIW - when I tried the Technics 3mm rubber plater mat, I stayed with it for a few months - I know it can take that long before I get over the newness factor and declare it good or otherwise. But, here is what happened - after a while I found myself listening to my digital sources more than my analog. Houston We have Problem. My analog source by design is suppose to be ’better’ than my digital source (I gave-up on investing any $$$ in digital). That’s how profound but subtle was the change. The new change in mat material (now ~4 weeks ago) has changed it back - analog is once again preferred. Like it not, the sub-conscious does have a vote. Who was it - Harry Pearson of the Absolute Sound - who said to the question - What is good sound? You will know it when you hear it.

Stay well,

Dear @antinn  : Other unexisted " lifeless " I experienced was when I changed the attenuators in my dual mono Essential 3180 phonolinepreamp that original came with Elma discrete true hole resistors in a perfectly matched then I changed by same Elma Swiss attenautors but instead of tue hole discrete resistors now are SMD ones.

When I listened I really was disappointed because that " lifeless " and lower SPLs " feeling ".
Again, I was wrong, I gave to my ears/brain some time and understand it that, again, thhere was no lifeless but a lot lower distortion levels that between other things permits me to listen SPL's way higher than before with out distress or image collapse.

Latetr on I will post some really interesting information on what you posted and that I have .

@lewm  , another way important advantage and true really high improvement using the 20.6s input signal as a high pass filter was that the overall signal quality level had that improves due not only for the better input cap but the extremely way better input resistor where I used/use the Z foil naked  TX2575 with tolerance of 0.01%. Jus great and outstanding high pass filter/input signal resolution in the amps.

R.

Dear @rauliruegas,

Thank-you for the forum references.  My choice of the word lifeless was more in haste then any proper assessment.  I found the softer rubber Technics mat to put a soft-focus on the music; the small intricate details were missing; essentially the system was now over-damped.  

Of the audio magazines - as you state, for sure Audio has/had the most technically founded (justified) papers.  

Otherwise - one more good paper http://www.laudioexperience.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Bruel-Kjaer-Audible-Effects-of-Mechanical-..., and this one is specific to measured  Audible Effects of Mechanical Resonances in Turntables and it is an interesting read.

Stay well

Dear @bdp24  : I found out the Cransfield patent on the tonearm/TT design that was licensed to M.Townshend. I don't read it yet.

Btw, when Max started to sale it the owners read it as manufacturer name: Cransfield and not Townshend.

R.

Dear @bukanona @stringreen  FRIENDS: 

"  As I do have this Jelco 750EB with "top cup" - I can say that if not damped it's rather inferior with high compliance cartridges (no silicon oil in cup)

With heavyweights/low compliance like SPU difference isn't so obvious, it takes time to understand that damping (silicon oil in cup) is better.

With high compliance difference is night and day. "

Very important and critical  use of the key in those statements:

"  it takes time to understand that damping (silicon oil ...) is better.  ""

Damping always will works is we give its time to settle down in our ears/brain and important our each one attitude: we have to be willing to test it with out earlier judgements.

R.

Dear @lewm  : about caps everything was in the long " run " time, no issue because of that.  I know exactly what you mean and I do not made the change of caps in speakers after the electronics but the other way around.

The 20.6's are coupled by cap at its input and several years ago, when I added my two Velodyne's, I took advantage of that input cap to made there the high pass filter ( along the amp input resistor. ) to the main speakers signal been untouchable by an external high pass electronic crossover.
 
In that way the signal to the main speakers and to the subwoofers goes directly from my Phonolinepreamp outputs ! !

No I don't tryed those Russian silver caps but I tryed the expensive Duelund silver ones: Wima outperformed too.

In the caps thread are wider explanations of what to do to go with Wima/Kemet caps.

R.

The thing about capacitors in speaker crossovers is that they generally operate without a bias voltage across them.  Thus, (1) they may take a very long time to "break in", if you believe in that sort of thing, and (2) it is not advisable to predict their sonic qualities based on their performance inside electronic equipment, where they almost always do operate with a bias voltage across them (and therefore usually break in faster as well). It is not surprising that cost may not correlate well with performance in a speaker.  Raul, where you use a capacitor at the input of your amplifier, have you tried the Russian SSG silver mylar capacitor there, assuming it is available in the needed size?  (They go up only to about 0.13uF.)  In my experience, the SSG is the single most transparent capacitor, even including the VCaps, which I also do like very much and which are made in a more useful range of values..

@cleeds  : I said we can use it and can works for a test and if we don`t like it then we can take out with no single trouble and with no sign in the arm wand that there was that electrical tape.

Why such big deal?  my command? you certainly are joking because I don't command to any one of you and certainly not cleeds that not even test it with the ASK by Sumiko.

R.

Dear @antinn : great Audio article. I started to read Audio in 1979 along Stereo Review and High Fidelity magazynes and with out any single doubt Audio was the best even against any today audio magazynes.
Pisha writer and reviewer down there has an alignment cartridge/tonearm solution similar to Löfgren A and almost no one knows about him.
Was in Audio where for the very first time appeared the wholeLöfgren geometry alignment and the whys about and that was many many years ago.

Btw, here another first hand experience with that " lifeless " issue and its true meaning:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/best-harmless-signatureless-speakers-capacitors/post?postid=1...

That thread was and is one of the best and deep audio lessons through my audio life because I started it to find out the best " boutique " caps for my speakers and by my self I learned there by my self too that the cheap Wima, Kemet or Vishay ones are really the ONES. I owned Duelund, Mundorf, Sonicraft, V-caps, Jantzen and many more and nothing compares against what I stated in that thread.

I tested those humble caps, during the thread time,  in my speakers and in a really critical electronics position: rigth at the input of my 20.6 ML monoblocks where I was using teflon V-caps CU very good cap and extremely expensive and things are that the Wima outperformed even that in that input amp position the audio signal goes complete/all the frequency rangepass through.

In the other side, platter mat is way critical and the best I experienced ( and I owned/own " hundred " of mats. ) still is the original Sota that after less than 100 units were out of production and the " clone " was an inferior one.
I use it with the Sota reflex clamp and with the Basis that’s reflex too. As a fact , aswith mats, I owned/own several clamps that it’s a necessity/must in any TT.

With mat/clamp and with out is like day and nigth.

R.

rauliruegas

The issue is not if it is electrical tape or what ever, the issue is that any tonearm arm wand need it that kind of damping ...

I think the recommendation you made to wrap a pickup arm with electrical tape is an especially bad idea and very much the issue. There is no way I'd put that gooey, sticky product on any arm I've ever owned, and I wouldn't recommend it to others.

... you have to give up/dump on analog/LP alternative because all tonearms need it !

Sorry, I'm not abandoning LP based on your command.

Dear @cleeds : " Wow! That’s electrical tape. I’d never put gooey sticky electrical tape on a pickup arm. "

Your statement disappoint me because I know you are way better than that.

The issue is not if it is electrical tape or what ever, the issue is that any tonearm arm wand need it that kind of damping that always ( no matters what. ) gives you a better quality level performance to what you are listening if your room/system has the quality resolution need it for.

"" If my arm needed that, I’d dump it and buy a proper arm. ""

then you have to give up/dump on analog/LP alternative because all tonearms need it ! !

Do it a favor to us and post areal contribution in the thread that really can helps to all of us on the thread subjects. Welcomed.

And do it your self a favor and test the Analog Survival Kit by Sumiko designed expressely for that purpose or any kind of tape you like even teflon tape can works very good too.

R.

As for mats I thought it was pretty well established that you want a material that has the same mechanical impedance as vinyl which is pretty hard. As for hold down vacuum is handily the best as it will perfectly flatten all records except the severely warped ones which should be thrown out any way. But what about those record flatteners? Really silly idea. When you warp a record you stretch the surface. Warps are caused by uneven heating of the record. The hot areas expand into the direction of least resistance forming the warp. If you reheat the record and compress the warp does the vinyl compress so that the molecules wind up in exactly the same place they started in? Highly unlikely. The surface remains distorted.

1++ @cleeds 
 
Cartridges come critically damped. That is what their suspensions are all about, but they are damped to work in certain types of arms as characterized by mass. If you go outside the mass they are "critically damped" for you will get into trouble. For on arm that is too light you simply at weight (mass.)  For an arm that is too heavy, you can take a hack saw to it or you can try and damped it further by various methods to spread out and flatten the resonance peak so that it might not interfere with playback. 
My own rule of thumb is to discount variables which are highly subjective. Hearing is one of them. Hearing is personal. You can only apply your own. Record playback is just a matter of very simple newtonian physics. Ok, maybe DS Audio enters the quantum realm. 

rauliruegas

... you can get way better quality sound using the " tape " around its arm wand. This is a must test you need to do it.

This other tape can helps you:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Scotch-Super-33-3-4-in-x-66-ft-Electrical-Tape-6132-BA-10/100073402

this is a streched tape and this characteristc is the one that works the best ...

Wow! That's electrical tape. I'd never put gooey sticky electrical tape on a pickup arm. If my arm needed that, I'd dump it and buy a proper arm.

Here is another cartridge article from from the past (B&O cartridge designer) https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/70s/Audio-1979-03.pdf.

A couple of items to grasp is the amount of pressure (1000's of psi)  that the stylus is developing, the elasticity of the record (its deforming) and the incredible torturous path the stylus is tracking in highly modulated grooves (i.e. the high frequency that gives the air/life to the music).   

Everything matters.  If the 'system' is over-damped, the stylus will not be able to vibrate or change vibration as quickly - for an electrical equivalent consider it slew-rate (uv/sec) - and the sound will be dead and lifeless.  Under-damp and stylus can go out of control and you get distortion and record damage.  Critically-damped (system dependent) and it sounds great.  Of course this is no easy task and @rauliruegas dissertation above and this very post and so many others like this are clear evidence.

I have recently been playing with record mats; a thin leather mat was doing OK, but the suede-side collected lint (visible with UV light) and eventually gave it back to the record. The thin (3mm) Technics rubber mat did not attract lint (must be nitrile rubber - near neutral triboelectric-scale), but was relatively soft (estimate about durometer-50) and sucked the life out of the music (VPI 2" AL platter). I am now testing a 3-layer material as a platter mat (not marketed as a platter mat) that is much stiffer (durometer 85) and the sound is great (and the material may solve static issues - will know more this winter).   So the platter mat can have a profound influence because it couples to the record which is not infinitely stiff.

So, everything matters - but unfortunately the devil is in the details; and in many ways that 'can' be the appeal of playing records.  There are an near infinite number of ways to achieve success (and of course an equivalent near infinite paths to frustration).  

My Maplenoll Ariadne Signature uses a silicone trough in front of the cartridge on the LT air arm, this combination has a very special bass quality but makes record thickness important. Different record thickness not only changes the VTA but also the depth of the paddle in the trough, that again affect the Tracking weight. Tracking weight is best set with the paddle in the trough and the stylus in perfect play height. I only use this arm for thin records, and have a SME arm for thicker records.

hidden gem in there by both Ralph and Raul....about vac hold down or clamps or mat material causing a lack of air or is it ( my words ) just reducing a distortion we like ? .....

Dear @neonknight  and FRIENDS :  its easy to get the paddle too deep into the reservoir and the end result is a lifeless sound that is lacking harmonic texture and decay........... But a light touch of the paddle into the silicone results in improved tracking ""

First that " LIFELESS " issue. I really have " thousands " of first hand experiences with almost any kind of damping in almost all the room/system and certainly I detected sevarl times that " lifeless or dullness " kind of sound after changes in damping and even after made changes for better audio items in the system. Let me explain about:

through those experiences I learned that transducers, as speakers and cartridges, are not only the ones that needs damping but that are way sensible to any kind of damping, the transducers always shows a response to damping.

Loudspeakers: really sensitive audio item and for extreme good reasons designers try that the " takls " boxes been as inert as the " dead silence ".
We can listen, example , Magico ones and even listening at over 95dbs SPL at seat position if we touch the box you can " feel " almost nothing. What " speaks " in the Magico or YG are the drivers as always should be but not always achieved.

My speakers are really old design and when I learned through the years I started to damp it in several ways and always was and is for the better:
first it has " three hands " ( internally ) of a insulation/antivibrational treatment ( like a white paint. I can't remember the ingredients. ) from Acoustical Magic Company ( it works marvelous ) inside all the box , to do that I had to take out all the speaker drivers including the internal wires and croosovers.
Second I change the internal damping glass fiber by 10kg ( each speaker ) of long hair 100% virgin wool and change the fabric cloth of the grille for a " transparent one ".
Third: Both speakers have at the box external rear-center the Antiresonant Vibration System by MICROSCAN model TM-8 that works from 20hz to 1.5Khz.
Finally: I take out the crossover ( now is external ) and change all the parts: resistors ( Powertron by Vishay. ), all silver air core solid ribbon ( 5.5 cms. of pure silver. Almost 2kg. of silver in the bigest one. ) Alpha-Core inductors , WIMA FKP 1 and KEMET caps in the crossover, the speakers cables goes soldered directly to the crossover parts. This speaker crossover is tri-hard-wired from the amps output to the 3-way crossover parts and speaker drivers.

All those was and is for damping and additional to that at the external box top " plate " I put 20kg of dead weigth.
This same kind of added weigth damping I do it with both subwoofers where have 40kg. dead weigth at its box top plate.

CARTRIDGES: well there is not cartridge as a stand alone audio item cartridge and tonearm is one and only one audio item and here damping is need it no matters what and for very good reasons:

this is a Nicola Tesla statement that we can use it in this thread:

" If you want to find the secrets in the Universe,thinks in terms of Energy, Frequency and VIBRATIONS. "

I own or owned almost any cartridge designed: LOMC, MM, MI, Electrostatic, Starin Gaugage, etc.,etc, with all kind of compliance/weigth combinations with all kind of cantilever materials/stylus tip shapes and in all kind of cartridge body materials and at the same time I own or owned almost all designed tonearms: vintage, today, unipivots, LT or gimball ones builded with all materials you can imagine and some very well damped and other not well damped and many in between these extremes.

The first top tonearm with paddle I owned was the great Micro Seiki MAX-282/237 that comes with 3 different removable arm wands and with 2 different silicon viscosity for the paddle and with a list which viscosity level silicon mated with which cartridges.

I used for several months with out the damp silicon paddle and one day I decided to use it and what I listened just did not like me.

What listened I in those old times trhough it?, exactly what neonknight posted: LIFELESS and DULL sound.
I can't listened any more and forgoted about the dampening issue, for me was not only not need it but gone against the listening experiences.
Same experience with my Audiocraft tonearm but here I had to use the oil at the bearing cup due that this unipivot design just need it but if I use a little higher down there MUSIC will sound: lifeless and dull.

Through the years my room/system improved a lot tilll today extremely high resolution one and through all those years I learned a lot too of overall home MUSIC Audio reproduction and one issue I learned is the need of damping in the whole analog rig it does not matters if the cartridge/tonearm combination resonance frequency is 10hz.

My first lessons about changes/damping for the better where when in the started tests of those changes that lifeless appeared and was when I changed IC cables and what I did it was not to come back to the original cables but I gave TIME to the new sound through more listening sessions because even in my first reaction was that the SPLs ( with out touching the volume attenuator. ) goes down !

What I learned there and thank's to my self developed test evaluation process was that I not even losted SPL but what I losted and that was the " culprit " of that LIFELESS were the distortion levels that gone way lower and from the " life " came: false life because was for the higher distortion levels.
This kind of experience repeated in my audio life in my system and other gentlemans systems till today. So that LIFELESS dos not exist if what we do is really an improvement.

Here at Agon a well know member @halcro years agoposted in a thread that using the after market AT vacuum hold down LP as a platter mat makes the sound Lifeless and dull what certainly it does not happens that way because I still own at least 2 of those AT items and makes an improvement due not only its damping effect but because flatness characteristic in almost any LP.

@ebm  answer my question when posted:

""  When the sound closes down then it is to much damping.When i had tonearms with damping trow i used as little fluid just so it touched the paddle. ""

I don't agree with him if what he try to says is that that " sound closes down " means something as " lifeless/dullness ".

All our room/systems have different quality level performance and different resolution levels, so what you can hear maybe other gentleman can't do it or listened in way different manner.

In some way I agree that the silicon damping issue is a " test and error " subject.

In my first hand experiences higher damping levels the better not lower as " possible " as some of you posted.
Silicon dampinghigh  levels always is welcomed till impedes the natural tonearm vertical/horizontal movements.

Please do it a favor and look this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_OUkLbSs24  ( at minute: 2.18. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYE67fVny4c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMG59yxJGfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLmpkPjkozs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuCdsyCWmt8&app=desktop  ( at the begining few seconds. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4_GYfPZfq0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbQugDDaemQ


We can see several things, first of them is the way very hard task the stylus tip has to ride those tortuose groove modulations, cartridge/tonearm job should be really fenomenal for been faithful to the groove modulations information recorded there the other thing we can see is that the stylus tip ridding is almost " out of its control " almost at " random " as the self cartridge tracking habilities permits it.

And it's these critical microscopic out of control stylus tip movements the ones that must and should be " tamed " to lower the developed distortions/to lower the additional non recorded movements and for the stylus tip pick up a higher true groove modulations.
The developed forces down there are almost imposible to " tame " it the record speed/spin and inertia movements along those forces makes the silicon damping paddle the only option to improve that traking and at a result we will has better quality level performance.

All those info here is only my opinion and if you have a better solution to lower those almost " out of control " movements then please share with us
. For my part I'm always willing to change for something better in any audio subject.

Btw, @tomic601  is rigth when posted: 

"  Everything is a bell  "

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @totem395  : Normally I don't trust in Korf and for good reasons. You can read/see here why:

http://korfaudio.com/blog68

first there used one of the more resonances/develops vibrations TTs designs and second his knowledge levels in that matching subject is to low about cartridges because he took the 103 compliance figure that in reality it's not that but higher because the spec is measured with japanese parameter that is way different in Europe or America continents.

For me has no value that information but is more a mix-up one.

R.

If some have not seen this data from Korf here is the
testing results regarding various arm materials and damping
results.
I like to quote a no longer with us enthusiast 
"More data less wank"

https://korfaudio.com/blog24



 

Dear @yeti42  : Unipivot tonearm designs are really sensitive and way unstable.

I think that with your Aro you can get way better quality sound using the " tape " around its arm wand. This is a must test you need to do it.

This other tape can helps you:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Scotch-Super-33-3-4-in-x-66-ft-Electrical-Tape-6132-BA-10/100073402

this is a streched tape and this characteristc is  the one that works the best. Very easy no take out with out any damage/sign into de arm wand.

R.

Dear @jjss49  : "  maybe my mind is imagining that... but i do believe the sq difference is there...""

Certainly is not your imagination, it's a fact. Adequated tonearm damping always improves quality level performance in any cartridge signal we are listening.

R.

Dear @bdp24  : No, it does not exist yet any other tonearm in the market as the Max great idea. Good that you own it from some years now because you know for sure what I'm talking with the critical tonearm damping subject.

R.

I removed the damping mechanism on my my SMEV for better sound (Benz LPS)

When the sound closes down then it is to much damping.When i had tonearms with damping trow i used as little fluid just so it touched the paddle.Hope this helps.

Read what Antinn wrote above.  One of the most intelligent  things written  on the forum  in quite awhile.  The answer is simple.  Listen adjust listen adjust etc...  The theories are all over the place.  Even if you go high dollar, still all over the place.  And beyond  that I believe  most people buy what they like, not necessarily what  sounds real.  Even more why you need to listen,  not look at the scope,  equation  work sheet,  or the worst  listen to someone's  hypothesis as it was gospel.

The other thing which Antinn wrote was having more than 1 table and arms for various types of music.   Also carts come into play and the recordings.  There are trade offs in everything on this planet.  You have to determine  what you want and then listen tweak listen tweak etc...

Enjoy the ride
Tom

Dear @ebm  : "   If you damp use as little as possible...""

good point but let me ask: how do you determine that " as little as possible " ? it can depends of which kind of damp we want to use.

When can we know that it's enough damping or that we need more or less damping with that specific cartridge/tonearm combination?

R.

Everything is a bell

Dear @antinn  : really good articles the ones you linked even if the Audio one premise is: " perfect cartridge ".

@lewm  your FR ansd Acutex resonates at 4hz, spot on for warps and other bass anomalies but you lovwe it.

I understand the FR " fascination " because I still own it but I do not use any more as a fact I don't like any more heavy mass tonearms. In those articles we can see are not good enough.

R.

If you damp use as little as possible and it also depends on the cartridge used.

I thought we were talking about oil or silicone based damping systems with troughs, paddles and goo. Obviously arm tubes can't ring which is why aluminum is frequently used. Stuff makes a worthless bell.

It appears that we're talking about all these things. Aluminum doesn't make a good bell, but its incorrect to assume that it won't have a resonance. I know a musician that uses aluminum bits he finds as percussion instruments.


BTW the first/only commercial use of Warren's platter pad was in fact on the Sota Cosmos. He told me that after about the first 100 or so they stopped using his formula. I ran serial number 0 of the Cosmos (it was white) for several years before replacing it with one of our model 208s. So when I compared the two machines side by side the platter pad wasn't a variable.

Sota and Basis make the best pads IMHO but I have not listened to a lot of them. I think the clamping method is more important. In most cases reflex clamping will work with all but the most severely warped records and I do not have an of those. Vacuum is the best but admittedly more complicated and expensive. Dohmann is going to release his vacuum clamping system soon and he has told me that once the record is clamped the compressor turns off! God knows how he is pulling that trick off. Obviously his mat has to seal the record without any leaks. Sota used a low vacuum system with the compressor running at a very low speed.
I'm not sure what Basis or Techdas do in this regard.  

Atmasphere, I thought we were talking about oil or silicone based damping systems with troughs, paddles and goo. Obviously arm tubes can't ring which is why aluminum is frequently used. Stuff makes a worthless bell. It is the additional damping required to control a pronounced resonance peak you might see with certain arm cartridge combinations the worst being a very compliant cartridge in a heavy arm.
Schroder uses wood arm wands because of their extremely damp nature.
Kuzma machines aluminum conically to spread the resonance out of existence. SME does the same but in magnesium another relatively dead metal but lighter. Triplanar uses a composite tube with "coaxial damping" whatever that is. It also has a trough but I have never seen it in use and I suspect it would only be useful if you stuck something on it like a Shure V15. I have no idea why you would do that but hey, people do silly things.

many years ago Sumiko marketed the Analog Survival Kit that is a great analog accesory.

A friend of mine, Warren Gehl (currently at ARC) was the designer of this product. I had pre-production and production sample that I used on my SME5, which really did seem to benefit from it, although it raised the mass of the arm which limited the number of cartridges I could use.

Eventually I moved to the Triplanar, which has a damped arm tube and so I didn't need the Analog Survival Kit any longer. IMO, if you really want the most out of an LP, the arm tube should be damped in some manner.


Warren also designed the platter pad I use. It is very effective in damping vibration in the LP, so it can't talk back to the stylus as its tracking the groove. Warren only made a few of these mats (less than 50) and the last one I saw sold used went for about $1200.00. IMO/IME the platter pad is an unsung but very important part of the LP playback alchemy.

@rauliruegas,

You and @lewm have it right - every application is different.  Its more than the just the cartridge and its compliance.  There is a decent article on tonearms in this Audio Magazine https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1980-06.pdf, and as stated in the magazine - all materials have some damping capacity - https://sites.utexas.edu/taleff/files/2019/10/jmatersci_v28n9y1993p2395.pdf.

The tonearm manufacture is literally between a rock and hard spot trying to design a tonearm for the multitude of table and cartridge designs that all together form a resonant system.  But, as has been stated, if your cartridge has the option for viscous damping then it may be worthwhile trying - but its success aside from table/cartridge could also be music type - maybe good with classical but not with vocals.  All the more reason for multiple arms and/or multiple tables LOL.

Just some thoughts.

Raul, all the clowns I know are really nice people. Pretty smart also.
I think you do them an injustice relating them to ignorant. 

noromance - there is major difference
750 - ball bearings
850 - knife edge bearings
if to look into all knife edge bearings - SAEC, SME and new Jelco series all of them looks ok without extra damping.
Ikeda/FR uses spring  + weight for that purpose
Dynavector uses magnet
Alfred who modifies cheap Ortofon tonearms from the past uses balsa inside the tube

Raul use to fix his tonearms with chewing gum. They were in dire shape and the chewing gum made them sound better. Is why he likes damping.
Next he'll tell you that he like Double Bubble best. I'm a Wrigley guy myself.

lewm, yes, damping will broaden and lower the resonance peak which is why you want to use it in the situation where a tonearm is too heavy for the cartridge. BUT, if the tonearm is properly tuned to between 8 and 12 Hz you don't need it at all. Why? SIMPLE, nothing happens there. Warp frequencies are below. Rumble and record noise are above. There is nothing there to excite it. Don't forget that the suspension of cartridges has a certain amount of damping built in. They don't just keep bouncing around. The only time I have ever seen damping in a very useful application was with an air bearing straight line tracker. It definitely decreased the amount of lateral cantilever movement during play. Because these arms have a very high horizontal mass the horizontal resonance frequency can be very low resulting in horizontal cantilever wobble which you can easily see. There is no question that damping quieted this down but, I would still never buy the arm. Don't like crutches.

@rauliruegas  I use the two Jelco 850 arms which are not damped. In fact I also ran the 750 without oil.

Also while related, bearing chatter and total friction are not the same animal.

“What’s the frequency Kenneth? “... fix a low frequency problem another way = agree

fix ( lower amplitude ) any other resonant issue always...

Triplaner owner, really 2 bad the owner the OP quotes never listened to damping... that missed opportunity was free! In my setup on a Brinkmann Bardo w Lyra Delos on an HRS base just a whisker of damping is better by my ears anyway..... the damping comes in a syringe.... in and out / more or less both work....