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TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

Dear friends: This tonearm critical subject sometimes can be controversial for say the least. Some audiophiles swear for non damped tonearms as the FR designs or SAEC or even the SME 3012 that is not very well damped in stock original status.

Some other audiophiles likes good damped tonearms.


In other thread a gentleman posted:


"  If a cartridge is properly matched to the tonearm damping is not required. " and even explained all what we know about the ideal resonance frequency range between tonearm and cartridge ( 8hz to 12hz. ). He refered to this when said: " properly matched to the tonearm ".


In that same thread that a Triplanar tonearm owner posted:


" This is the one thing about the Triplanar that I don't like. I never use the damping trough...... I imagine someone might have a use for it; I removed the troughs on my Triplanars; its nice to imagine that it sounds better for doing so. "


At the other side here it's a very well damped tonearm:


https://audiotraveler.wordpress.com/tag/townshend/


Now, after the LP is in the spining TT platter ( everything the same, including well matched cartridge/tonearm.  ) the must critical issue is what happens once the cartridge stylus tip hits/track the LP grooves modulations.

The ideal is that those groove modulations can pass to the cartridge motor with out any additional kind of developed resonances/vibrations and that the transducer makes its job mantaining the delicated and sensible signal integrity that comes in those recorded groove modulations.

 That is the ideal and could be utopic because all over the process/trip of the cartridge signal between the stylus tip ride and the output at the tonearm cable the signal suffers degradation (  resonances/vibrations/feedback ) mainly developed through all that " long trip " .


So, DAMPING IS NEED IT AT THE TONEARM/HEADSHELL SIDE OR NOT?


I'm trying to find out the " true " about and not looking if what we like it or not like it is rigth or not but what should be about and why of that " should be ".


I invite all of you analog lovers audiophiles to share your points of view in this critical analog audio subject. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT?


Thank's in advance.



Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.






rauliruegas

Showing 12 responses by bukanona

bukanona
174 posts
 
for finish, I do promise never argue again, here.
spring in tonearm - doesn’t do anything if you have completely flat record.
But in case of valleys/bumps it helps (short version). Also spring has some impact as damping.
So in my not perfect world spring can be removed if turntable has vacuum or outer ring - sound might improve (never tried it yet).



bukanona
174 posts
 
Mijostyn, you are putting damping and effective weight into one bin. That is not correct.
All materials have some damping qualities and choosed by designer not only by desired weight. 
bukanona
174 posts
 
As I do have this Jelco 750EB with "top cup" - I can say that if not damped it's rather inferior with high compliance cartridges (no silicon oil in cup) 

With heavyweights/low compliance like SPU difference isn't so obvious, it takes time to understand that damping (silicon oil in cup) is better.

With high compliance difference is night and day.
bukanona
174 posts
 
noromance - there is major difference
750 - ball bearings
850 - knife edge bearings
if to look into all knife edge bearings - SAEC, SME and new Jelco series all of them looks ok without extra damping.
Ikeda/FR uses spring  + weight for that purpose
Dynavector uses magnet
Alfred who modifies cheap Ortofon tonearms from the past uses balsa inside the tube


bukanona
174 posts
 
I do remmember many years ago I have read that Thomas Shick removed spring from FR64 and it was claimed as tuning.
Raul said that FR 64 is crap, especially FR66  as it is completely wrong.

It’s interesting how chaotic variables can make system in the mind - if you can’t understand it - destroy it.
bukanona
174 posts
 
Raul I can say that you like too much damping and you are losing some signal... so your Micro Seiki is dull. 
So, Raul, for what spring is used? I can help you it was used in Empire tonearm and Ikeda copied it. It was used in Gray Research 103-SL if to look into old times, many old Ortofon tonearms have springs...
Why Ikeda changed from 64 to 64S to 64Fx to current version which is 64S with some tube damping?
Why people pay so much for old SME tonearms with stainless steel tubes, why in Japan they do had R version of SME tonearms. And why Japan ignored SME series V and IV in general? I would like to remind you that Japanese are not deaf and they do go to concerts as at home space is very limited.


bukanona
174 posts
 
So Raul you don't know answer into simple question? You can walk on water?
Your question about my system do you think that it will help you to gain knowledge? Do you know the meaning of world gentleman?
I can say for you phono part Garrard 301 refurbished with Saec 308sx or Thorens td520 with Jelco 750. DaVa stepup. Bunch of phono cartridges mostly Lomc. Rada phono premp.
So you feel it is enough? I do set turntables for friends so I know what I am doing but sorry I don't walk on water. 


bukanona
174 posts
 
No don't own and I don't want to buy Japanese Max tonearm. 
It will make my distorted music sound bad.
bukanona
174 posts
 
Raul, your know how is very poor especially in tonearms. If you own tonearm it doesn't mean that it's the best in the world. 
bukanona
174 posts
 
Mijostyn - it can be done via transfer energy towards stub and absorbing it there. They do occur always.
If we speak about high fidelity everything matters you can't void and say that they are not important. 
bukanona
174 posts
 
Tonearm superiority isn't meant by tracking everything with all cartridges. It should do it also proper way controlling resonances and going fluently via deformations. 
If to use only tracking test Telarc, HiFI news or even better Ortofon test record you'll find that most of the high end cartridges don't track everything. For designer it's quite easy to make suspension softer and to get 100 μm peak although sound generated by coils and in case of too much fluency in suspension sound level will be uneven. So designer has to put into one sound profile - size of coils, impedance of coils and magnet type and shape, weight of cartridge and decide about suspension material, type and shape of cantilever it's material, stylus length and diamond shape. 
Company which built their reputation on tracking is Shure with V15 series If you'll check Shure Ultra 500 which is the best in the line you'll find that it has brush at the front. It's not intended as anti-static brush, it's part of suspension keeps it  more steady.

bukanona
174 posts
 
tyray, in my opinion antistatic effect  is very small and it's more advertising gimmick. 
I am a little bit confused why none of MC cartridges uses brush. Maybe there is some interference. For high compliant ones it should be very OK...
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