He know better than me. He is a musician and i am not. I dont listen contemporary lyrics anyway, they are not all bad for sure, but what is good enough is few waves in an ocean of bad to worst...
I will never dare to claim it because i am old, not a musician anyway, i listen classical old music and world music and Jazz...
And old very old lyrics from Franco-Flemish school to Léo Ferré and to the genius Bob Dylan Dylan...
Just write what you think about Beato informed opinion...
I like him because he spoke bluntly and is enthusiast musician ...
That beato character appears to be a bit controversial. Perhaps some folks reacted to him rather than to the questions you posed, which are very good questions indeed.
Maybe, you’re on to something? But I will tell you this, if you lead with a negative (negativity).
«Today’s Lyrics Are Pathetically Bad» Rick Beato
Don’t be surprised when you get a negative (negativity) thrown right back at you. It doesn’t matter who you are. It could me, Rick Beato or even our good friend @mahgister.
Karma, the Universe or whatever you want to call it/her, has a way of bounding back at you. It’s a simple universal truth. It has nothing to do with culture, education, taste, lyrics, music or even the internet. It just is... A simple universal truth. Period, full stop. There's no need to philosophize.
Now again, maybe/if when we/you lead with (positivity) something positive like this.
Yeah, your right about the plain Amish bread. I grew up around the Indiana/Ohio state Amish community. Good stuff and good people. You see, you get what you put out...And I don’t agree that being enthusiastic equates to being pathetic. Pathetic is a harsh word and carries a very negative vibration with it. And with all due respect, who is he to judge.
It's easy to cherry pick a few lyrics from any era that are unsophisticated and even silly. But I don't think this discussion is about the worst of any era, it's about the best. And, in my opinion at least, the best of the 60s, 70s, and even the 80s is far better lyrically than what we have now.
These were some of the most acclaimed albums from just the 60s:
Revolver, The White Album, Pet Sounds, Blonde on Blonde, Beggar's Banquet, Astral Weeks, Music from Big Pink, Tommy, Court of the Crimson King, Sweetheart of the Rodeo, We're Only In It for the Money, Parsley, Sage, Rosemary & Thyme
That's just a small sample, and each of those albums include at least two or three truly great songs. Can anyone reasonably argue that today's young songwriters are putting out music with lyrics comparable to those songs? I doubt it.
Can anyone reasonably argue that today's young songwriters are putting out music with lyrics comparable to those songs?
Any 20 year old will be happy to make the case that today's young songwriters are putting out music with lyrics not only comparable to but better, more resonant, and far more relevant than those songs.
I watched those videos and I respectfully suggest we simply agree to disagree regarding what constitutes "melodic" where Rap is concerned and focus on what we both like. Overall, from what I've seen so far, our tastes overlap much more than they diverge ;o)
Can anyone reasonably argue that today's young songwriters are putting out music with lyrics comparable to those songs? I doubt it.
How much effort have you put into exploring contemporary songwriters?
I haven't read through the entire thread and I'm not singling you out here, but I am going to point out an elephant in the room. None of us are wholly immune to favoring what we like -- what is familiar -- and regarding it as "best". I've noted this tendency in myself over and over.
Here are a couple of more song writers I just thought of that I personally like what I have heard from them:
Ray LaMontagne was born in ’73 and according to Wiki his first CD was released in ’04 and since then he has released at least seven more "studio albums" and some EPs and some singles. I say "at least" because it appears to me as if the wiki article is a bit dated. I slowed down considerably on buying CDs in the post 2001 world, but of the two of his I did buy, the one I like the most (and it is up there on my rack where I keep my favorite go-to CDs) is God Willin’ & The Creek Don’t Rise.
Mia Doi Todd was born in ’75 and her first two CDs were released in ’97 and ’99; After those two, and up until ’21 she released nine more "studio albums" and some singles and two "remix albums" and one soundtrack (Music for A Midsummer Night’s Dream 2018). (I do not know if she has any post ’21 "studio albums".) As I’ve typed previously, I do not listen to the radio much any more nor do I buy many CDs these days, but on one of the rare times I was listening to the radio and hearing her sing My Baby Lives In Paris, that was enough for me to buy Cosmic Ocean Ship and in my opinion the CD is made up of solid writing.
This thread has got me thinking a lot about what I’ve liked and why, over the years, and what has influenced my preferences.
When I was young, a lot of the lyrics I liked were about the search for the ideal partner and all the associated emotions or about the challenges of figuring out who I was and how to find my bearings in and navigate, the world. In mid-life, I had different concerns that led me to focus primarily upon exploring Jazz. For some reason, a more abstract instrumental focus was what I was drawn to.
Now, while I still enjoy much of the music of my youth and mid-life, I’m enjoying and relating to simpler (relative to Jazz) acoustic genres in which songs and lyrics (rather than complex improvisation) are the main attraction more than I have for some time. The lyrics I relate to now tend to reflect the concerns of someone my age.
My point is simply that it’s easier to appreciate lyrics that more explicitly address our age and life situation/experience and in so doing, not respond to lyrics that may be well written but simply don’t resonate for us at the time we encounter them.
I’ve spent quite a few years (very) slowly improving my poetry writing craft and I like to think that I can objectively recognize good writing when I see/hear it but in reality, it can be trickier than we might like to admit.
And, of course, there are lots of different variations.
I know I’ve been pretty long-winded but hopefully others will find this relateable in the context of this thread.
I don’t have any problem with Frank Zappa, but these are not the lyrics that I would use to try to make a case for today’s lyrics being pathetically bad when compared to those of yesteryear.
"Dreamed I was an eskimo
Frozen wind began to blow
Under my boots and around my toes
The frost that bit the ground below
It was a hundred degrees below zero...
And my mama cried
And my mama cried
Nanook, a-no-no
Nanook, a-no-no
Don’t be a naughty eskimo
Save your money, don’t go to the show
Well I turned around and I said oh, oh oh
Well I turned around and I said oh, oh oh
Well I turned around and I said ho, ho
And the northern lights commenced to glow
And she said, with a tear in her eye
Watch out where the huskies go,
and don’t you eat that yellow snow
Watch out where the huskies go,
and don’t you eat that yellow snow"
She was born in ’79 and according to Wiki she has nine "studio albums" under her belt, apparently starting with Come Away With Me in ’02 (which, in my opinion, has some stuff on it that is quite well written). If that Wiki article is current, her last "studio album" was Visions and released in ’24; I haven’t heard that one yet, so I cannot comment on it, but I have a bunch of other CDs and SACDs by her, and although I don’t like all of the stuff on all of them, I feel that there is also well written stuff on them.
You miss the point here. Zappa was writing this in an era where non sense in lyrics was not frequent at all like nowadays and he wrote it as "humor"...View from this perspective it is well written...
Like you, by the way, but i was young and too serious ( in classical) i missed this wink from a great musician recommend as such as an original "wink" by my friend not as a model of song lyrical poetry ...
This song worked well because he is always played on the wave...As a "wink" ...
I don’t have any problem with Frank Zappa, but these are not the lyrics that I would use to try to make a case for today’s lyrics being pathetically bad when compared to those of yesteryear.
"Dreamed I was an eskimo
Frozen wind began to blow
Under my boots and around my toes
The frost that bit the ground below
It was a hundred degrees below zero...
And my mama cried
And my mama cried
Nanook, a-no-no
Nanook, a-no-no
Don’t be a naughty eskimo
Save your money, don’t go to the show
Well I turned around and I said oh, oh oh
Well I turned around and I said oh, oh oh
Well I turned around and I said ho, ho
And the northern lights commenced to glow
And she said, with a tear in her eye
Watch out where the huskies go,
and don’t you eat that yellow snow
Watch out where the huskies go,
and don’t you eat that yellow snow"
My point is simply that it’s easier to appreciate lyrics that more explicitly address our age and life situation/experience and in so doing, not respond to lyrics that may be well written but simply don’t resonate for us at the time we encounter them.
On a personal level, @stuartk, I could point to many exceptions to that. However, I think that there is also a lot of truth to that statement. But I would also say that if some one writes something (could be song lyrics, poetry, a short story, a book) that somebody else is able to relate to due to situations/experiences, it is probably, at least to a certain degree, well written to be able to strike that chord. At least that’s the way I feel when something that I read or hear strikes that chord in me. "Wow, the author did a pretty good job when s/he wrote that."
Here’s an example of what you just said that is NOT an exception for me:
"When Daddy told me what happened, I couldn’t believe what he’d just said; Sonny shot himself with a .44 and they found him lying on his bed."
You are probably familiar with those lyrics, but in case you are not and in order to give the ARTIST due credit, that was by Lucinda Williams, the title was Pineola, and it was off of the Sweet Old World CD released in early nineteen nintey and something.
That song seemed to speak directly to me, and the first time I ever heard it I remember the hair on the back of my neck standing up. I wanted to tell Ms. Williams how I felt. I am relatively certain that this was not exclusive to me. (And from what I subsequently read, the writing did come from her heart/gut/personal experience and I remember that back when I first started attending her performances, she always used to open with that track.)
Anyway, getting bacl to your statement above, perhaps that’s where Rick Beato comes to that opinion he has (I think badly) stated: the lyrics that speak to him on the basis of personal experiences and life situations come from yesteryear.
But that’s on him.
I started out this response by saying that although I was not discounting it that, for me, there were personal exceptions. An example, for me, would be Bob Dylan. I really cannot relate much at all via experience/situation to what he writes, but the imagery his stuff invokes in me is just killer. And I’d go so far as to say that quite often it is the imagery that lyrics invoke for me that makes the difference. (’For me’ being the operative words.)
But with that typed, and coming back again to what you typed regarding situations and experiences, often the imagery invoked by certain (not all) lyrics are, in fact, images of experiences and situations that I can easily relate to.
How much effort have you put into exploring contemporary songwriters?
I would confess not all that much. But in a way that makes my point. During the 60s and 70s you didn't have to search high and low or put a great deal of effort into finding great songs. In fact, it was hard to miss them. All you had to do was turn on your radio (yes, we listened to the radio back then) and you couldn't avoid hearing great songs.
I'm sure that the young artists suggested by many in this thread are fine songwriters, and I don't think (or at least I hope not) that Mr. Beato is suggesting that all modern songwriting is pathetic. I'm certainly not. But great songs are hard to find these days and I highly doubt that in 20 years, or even 5 or 10, very many people will be listening to the ones written by today's contemporary artists.
By the way, you've brought up singer/songwriters like Ray LaMontagne, Norah Jones and Mia Doi Todd (haven't heard of her), but as you point out, they're all in their 40's and 50's. That's not ancient by any means, but they don't really fall into the category of young contemporary artists.
You miss the point here. Zappa was writing this in an era where non sense in lyrics was not frequent at all like nowadays and he wrote it as "humor"
You know what they say--beauty is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder (or listener). But putting nonsense in a song and giving it a title doesn't make it anything but nonsense, no matter what year it was composed, and my point is that I wouldn't use it as an example of why yesterday's lyrics are better than those of today.
But this, of course, is only my opinion. Unlike Rick Beato, I will not state that Don't Eat The Yellow Snow is pathetically bad when compared to music of today.
My point is simply that it’s easier to appreciate lyrics that more explicitly address our age and life situation/experience and in so doing, not respond to lyrics that may be well written but simply don’t resonate for us at the time we encounter them.
For sure you are right, it is just plain common sense..
But.....
Any Bob Dylan songs for example is well written...
Or Léo Ferré or Jacques Brel in french...
The well done poetic content speak to anyone at any age...
Anybody can feel "ne me quittes pas" powerful words even at 85 years old passed the teen days of girls letting him on the border of the road...
It is certain that song content speak to some specific listener at some age. but this has nothing to do with his lyrical litterary value...And the reason why we listen Brel, Ferré, Dylan or Cohen today is for their litterary and musical quality...The listener age dont matter...
The only one creating songs specifically for teen for example in the yéyé era were the singers working for a market identified by the industry... These songs had no more any interest save for nostalgia and are lying in the graveyard of bad commercial music..
We dont listen the Beatles best songs mainly by nostalgia for our teen years but because they are well written...
By the way, you’ve brought up singer/songwriters like Ray LaMontagne, Norah Jones and Mia Doi Todd (haven’t heard of her), but as you point out, they’re all in their 40’s and 50’s. That’s not ancient by any means, but they don’t really fall into the category of young contemporary artists.
@ezwind, the reason I picked those artists, and others, was because at some point in the course of this thread the statement was made about what was or was not being written in the 21st century. All of those artists I have listed released their first studio album in the early 2000s, with the exception of one who released two in the very late ’90s and then followed up with several releases in the 21stt century.
How much effort have you put into exploring contemporary songwriters?
I would confess not all that much. But in a way that makes my point. During the 60s and 70s you didn’t have to search high and low or put a great deal of effort into finding great songs. In fact, it was hard to miss them. All you had to do was turn on your radio (yes, we listened to the radio back then) and you couldn’t avoid hearing great songs.
. . . @ezwind, I will just quickly point out that I was not the member who posted that query to you (about how hard have you tried to hear new music), but no-matter.
I remember my childhood in the ’60s and my teen age years in the ’70s, and I can tell you that most of the AM country &/or top 40 stations that were popular in the small town in north central Montana where I grew up were not playing Dylan very often. I doubt my Dad (who did like Lawrence Welk) would have even known who he was if my sisters hadn’t have been playing it in the basement. And I don’t know how they were exposed to it, except my oldest sister was a small town hippy-girl, and I suppose that they were privy to some kind of "underground hippy network" whose reach mangaed to extend to the northern plains.
As far as being exposed to contemporary artists these days, back in the mid ninetys someone at work turned me onto a public radio station, 91.3 WYEP, that got me away from the classic rock stations. I don’t know what their play list is like now, but at the time it was like, "Wow! I never heard of this group/artist! This is real good!" And I bought a lot of CDs due to that radio station. I kept my car radio on 91.3 and the radio at my bench at work as well. At work, except for two other guys who listened to that station, all everyone else knew was classic rock or what passed for country back then (meaning Garth Brooks, et al). I caught a lot of grief over that.
Oops, sorry about mixing up who I was responding to!
As far as not hearing much Dylan in the latter half of the 60s and early 70s, that was likely due to the fact that he got married, had kids and took a hiatus from touring starting in 67 until 74 and only released two or three albums of new music during that period. The fact that you were in a small town in Montana probably had something to do with as well.
The fact that you were in a small town in Montana probably had something to do with as well.
That probably had the most to do with it, @ezwind. They played top 40 hits and old-goldies and C&W. They probably played Blowing In The Wind back then, unless it had some kind of bad rap of being a protest oriented song--as good as my memory is, I do not remember. My Mom liked different types of music--she was relatively open minded. Relatively. She bought the 45 rpm of Hey Jude because she thought it was beautiful when she heard it on the radio. She did like what she heard by Paul Simon, although she was a bit aghast by Kodachrome ("When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school . . .").
My Dad was different story. I remember playing an 8 track (I think it was a greatest hits) for my mom because I had just discovered Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da and I thought it was so cool, and my Dad walked by and was quite condescending. He liked Lawrence Welk and he also liked Kenny Rodgers. In the ’90s, after my mom died, he’d come to visit us for Thanksgivings and one year we all went to DC to see Lucinda Williams at the Oh Nine Thirty Club and that didn’t do anything at all for him. A year or two later we went to a local club to see Jill Sobule and Warren Zevon. Not impressed. I played him some Leonard Cohen on my system which was, even back in the later ’90s , not a bad system, and maybe you can guess how he felt about that. He wasn’t liking the Cowboy Junkies cover of I’m So Lonesome I Could Cry; "I don’t think that’s how Hank Williams meant for that to ever sound."
Which is all to say that different people have different thoughts about what is great and what is pathetic.
@tomic601: Damn Jim, where'd ya see Iris with accompaniment? A bassist and guitarist? All four times I've seen her she was solo, which was fine with me. I've seen Joan Osborne with just her pianist and guitarist, and with her I missed a rhythm section. Still great though.
About a year ago I saw two new young(er) artists and an old-timer touring together, in a great little theater in Portland, Mississippi Studios. They were Kelly Willis, Brennen Leigh, and Melissa Carper. Melissa was playing an upright bass, Kelly and Brennen acoustic guitars. A night of great songs, singing, and playing! The audience was divided about equally between greybeards (such as myself) and young hipsters. Outrageous alcoholic beverage prices! I gotta start sneaking in my flask.
The last time I saw Iris was in late '23 at the Kate Hepburn Theater in CT (tiny place seats a few hundred or so) and she was accompanied by Liz Draper on bass and Myra Burnette on guitar, two youngish musicians from Minnesota. I've seen Iris maybe a half dozen times and, as always, this was a great show. She's become a lot more chatty on stage than she used to be.
One example of pathetically bad lyrics from a song in the 1950s is "Surfin' Bird" by The Trashmen. The song is notorious for its repetitive and nonsensical lyrics, which primarily consist of variations on the phrase "bird is the word" and other silly vocal sounds. The lyrics include lines like:
- "A-well-a everybody's heard about the bird"
- "B-b-b-bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word"
- "Papa-ooma-mow-mow"
Critics have pointed out that the song seems to lack creativity, relying heavily on repetitive phrases and nonsensical sounds rather than meaningful lyrics. This has led to the perception that the songwriters were more focused on creating a catchy tune than on crafting substantial lyrics [[2]](https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/50s-and-60s-song-lyrics-did-they-even-try.135243/).
Another example often cited for its lack of depth is "The Purple People Eater" by Sheb Wooley, which features whimsical and absurd lyrics about a creature that eats purple people. The overall tone and content of such songs from the era often reflect a playful, yet simplistic approach to songwriting that can come off as "pathetic" by today's standards [[2]](https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/50s-and-60s-song-lyrics-did-they-even-try.135243/).
These examples illustrate how some 1950s songs, while catchy, can be viewed as having lyrics that are trivial or lacking in substance.
---
Learn more:
1. [Pathetic songs and pathetic lyrics - Digital Spy](https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2313052/pathetic-songs-and-pathetic-lyrics)
2. [50s and 60s song lyrics (Did they even try?) | Other Media | RPGnet Forums](https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/50s-and-60s-song-lyrics-did-they-even-try.135243/)
3. [- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQoWUtsVFV0)
I would confess not all that much. But in a way that makes my point. During the 60s and 70s you didn’t have to search high and low or put a great deal of effort into finding great songs. In fact, it was hard to miss them. All you had to do was turn on your radio (yes, we listened to the radio back then) and you couldn’t avoid hearing great songs.
Sure, I remember those days. But keep in mind that back then, record companies were largely run by people who were willing to take on a much broader variety of artists. They all had their roster of hit makers but that wasn’t their sole focus. These days, it’s a very different story. It’s all about the bottom line. There’s no perceived upside or cachet to releasing recordings by more obscure or idiosyncratic artists, so these artists must go their own way or find small labels willing to take them on. This means what’s on commercial radio is much more homogenized than it was when we were young. If you want to hear "the good stuff", you need to tune into independent radio stations such as KVMR online, read online music magazines,and utilize streaming platforms. The All Music Guide online is useful. as well. How much effort is required to type in a few search terms and and operate a mouse? Not much!
One of the major pluses about streaming that gets mentioned over and over here is the access it provides to massive amounts of music. Never before in history has there been such easy access to so much music. Even if you don’t stream (I don’t) Spotify is a terrific resource for exploring new sounds.
Another good newer artist is Allison Russel. I love her song, Eve Was Black. Another new singer song writer is Sierra Ferrell from where I grew up in West Virginia. Her song American Dreaming is pretty good.
But in general, outside of Americana, bluegrass and world music, I really dislike most new music.
In 2024, several songs have been critically appraised for their impactful lyrics. Here are some notable examples:
1. **"Anti Hero" by Taylor Swift**: This song has been highlighted for its introspective lyrics that resonate with themes of vulnerability and self-reflection. The line "It’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me" captures the essence of human introspection, making it a significant addition to contemporary music discussions [[2]](https://vocal.media/education/top-songs-to-add-to-your-playlist-in-2024).
2. **"What Now" by Brittany Howard**: This track explores the complex emotions surrounding a crumbling relationship, including feelings of numbness and guilt. The song's blend of soul, rock, and R&B, along with its raw emotional honesty, has garnered critical acclaim [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html).
3. **"Only God Was Above Us" by Vampire Weekend**: This song features lyrics that reflect on the evolution of indie rock in a changing musical landscape. Its mix of historical references and abstract lyrics showcases the band's innovative approach to songwriting [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html).
4. **"Hit Me Hard and Soft" by Billie Eilish**: Eilish's latest work is noted for its relatable love songs that intertwine darker themes with affection. The concise nature of the album, along with its melodic complexity, has been well-received by critics [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html).
5. **"Brat" by Charli XCX**: This album includes tracks that assess personal and professional struggles, using catchy beats and honest lyrics to convey the artist's journey in the pop industry [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html).
These songs not only showcase lyrical depth but also reflect broader themes of personal growth, emotional complexity, and cultural commentary, making them standout tracks in 2024.
---
Learn more:
1. [My 10 Favorite New Songs of 2024 | Tim Challies](https://www.challies.com/resources/my-favorite-new-songs-of-2024/)
2. [Top Songs to Add to Your Playlist in 2024 | Education](https://vocal.media/education/top-songs-to-add-to-your-playlist-in-2024)
3. [Best Albums of 2024: Charli XCX, Mk.gee, MJ Lenderman and More - The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html)
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