Sound? I'm looking for a nice rich, warm, full sounding amp with lots of detail. I wanna hear each instrument distinctly and know where it is on the stage! I'm not a BIG bass fan, but I certainly what to hear the bass.
Hopefully, I'll get that with the Jolida. Placed my order this afternoon.
Fingers crossed! |
Ebuzz,
Congratulations and I believe that you'll be happy with the choice. What I like about jolida is it's reasonably price and has earned a reputation for being reliable and good sounding. What I also hear from experienced owners is it's very receptive to different tubes and simple modification like better coupling capacitors(something to consider at any future time).
If you like the sound of the stock Jolida that's a good start (the stock tubes are generic level quality). So room for significantly improved sound in an inexpensive but quite solid tube power amplifier. It's very possible that you may have been just as happy with the ARC amplifier, but given your stated sonic preference I would have made the same choice.
Charles, |
Ebuzz,
You probably know this but I'll say it anyway. This brand new amplifier will require adequate burn in time (especially those transformers) so be patient and give it time to develop its full potential. If you like it right away that's good news as it will get better. Get familiar with the sound character of your stock tubes before tube rolling attempts ( you need a baseline for comparison sake). I think tonality, body and tactile presence will differ from what you're accustom to, let your ear/brain adjust . |
"...has earned a reputation for being reliable..."
I've no personal experience using Jolida, but the reputation that has passed before me has been quite a bit different. |
Thanks! I did, however, get the full compliments of upgrades that Walter at Underwood HiFi offered. Upgraded tubes, capacitors etc. I've very excited about the choice. I don't usually second guess myself, so I anticipate that I will be happy. I guess that between the ARC and this one it's like a BMW or Mercedes, they're both great and I'd be happy with either one.
I am aware of break in time but did have one question: if we're talking about 200 or so hours. Can u leave it on for that long a time at one stretch? |
Ebuzz, generally speaking, I want a similar sound that you desire. Jolida should do that for you. A while back I owned, for my office, a little Jolida FX10 EL 84 integrated. At the time, for $425.00, it punched way beyond its price point and gave me the type of sound you mentioned above. At 10 watts yet. People didn't believe it until they heard it. Of course I had to roll some NOS tubes to get what I wanted. But Jolida was to me a surprisingly good product and company. Seriously, I'd rather listen to FX 10 than the ARC.
Charles1Dad, yes, I agree from what you write that we have similar tastes in how music should sound. I've owned a lot of stuff over the years and envy, it a good way, your Coincident system. When our house is finished I'm likely going to pull the trigger on Coincident. I tend also to agree with what Salvatore says concerning the Coincident 300B. I had the Golden Tube set-up Salvatore liked so much back in the day. I also sold a Golden Tube 300B non-mono. It was also pretty good. Best. |
Unsound,
Fair enough, I guess we are relying on different sources for owner feedback. From what I understand reliability has been said to be good.
Ebuzz,
That particular upgrade package is quite worthwhile from word of mouth. I think that was a good decision. I'll be interested to read your thoughts in the future once you've settled down with it.
Charles, |
Unsound, I think the problem period Gordon Jolida was before the current team located to Maryland. And, Underwood Wally is an outstanding seller of this brand and others. A straight shooter. |
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Hi Mikirob,
As long as you have a compatible speaker (efficiency/load) I believe you'll absolutely love the 300b Frankenstein. Arthur Salvatore was 100% correct in his unbridled enthusiasm. I hope you're able to acquire one in the near future.
Charles, |
The BAT VK75-SE would be my choice by far!
Good luck. |
The BAT seller never responded to inquiries. |
Congratulations Ebuzz. You made the right choice. |
Don't leave any amp on if you're not using it (except maybe when you leave the room for under four minutes), especially a tube amp that wastes considerable juice when idle...break it in by listening to it or you won't have any idea that it broke in. |
Ebuzz,
I wouldn't suggest leaving a tube power amp on 24/7 but you certainly can have it on throughout the day when you are home. I don't like to frequently turn an amplifier on-off but this is obviously a personal choice.
Bottom line, I think you're going to enjoy and appreciate what a tube amplifier offers to your listening experience.
Charles, |
I knew that leaving a tube amp on too long was not a good idea. I like the idea of listening while it breaks in. I am psyched and can't wait to get it all hooked up. I will report back with my thoughts. |
Almost all my speakers are efficient, 92db or better, 8 Ohm nominal impedance. The only way to go IMHO. I believe speaker manufacturers took a wrong turn with the low efficiency plus 4 Ohm impedance.
As soon as my new house is complete with dedicated listening room I intend to buy Coincident speakers or something like them. Perhaps Daedalus? Big Tannoy? I'll be on the hunt.:) |
Mikirob,
You're on a very good road toward wonderful sound. |
Ebuzz, Have a musically joyous New Year! Well done!
Mikirob, I fully agree with the path you have chosen, as well! |
Santa, All I want is a pair of Yamamoto Teflon 300B sockets
.... and of course, true Peace for every single living creature |
Revision: Santa, I do realize that I am asking for a lot
..... those tube sockets aren't exactly cheap |
Somwhats the consensus on Orpheus' view? Will I not get a tube sound with a SS preamp? |
Ebuzz,
That question has been debated countless times on this forum and there's simply no "right" answer. I believe that the tube amplifier contributes more of a tube character to a system than the preamp (still lmportant however).
If given one choice, I'd go SS pre( must be a good one) with tube amp rather than tube pre with SS amp. In all honesty you can have exceptional sound quality with either combination ( there's a lot of good components available). Tube pre with SS amplifier is the more popular route, so I'm in the minority. My ideal preference, tube pre and amplifier.
Charles, |
Thanks Charles, the tube preamp will have to wait for a bit. |
Hi Ebuzz
My uncle has a ARC Tube preamp mated with Threshold SA amps and the music from his system sounds wonderful. I'd ask some ARC experts like Bifwynne or Hifigeek1 for their thoughts on ARC house sound.
With my Jolida amp I've used it with SS preamps mostly. From an Accuphase C200 to a Kavent S33 preamp I've had no issues with sound quality. |
The sound you get with an SS pre and a tube amp is in my opinion much better than the ubiquitous tube pre and SS power amp. I agree most decidedly with Charles1dad about this, although there is a strong belief that the tubed pre signal is only amplified by an SS amp. In my experience the sound gets flattened by the SS amp from highly 3D sound tubes make. |
Ebuzz- There is no right or wrong answer but IMO, you need tubes fore and aft (pre and power) to make reproduced sound as close to "real" music as you can. It will never get there, but.... |
Thank you Jedinite .... As I have mentioned on numerous occasions, I do not recommend brands because there are many fine brands to choose from on the market and subjective opinions and tastes vary. Indeed, sometimes folks have expressed their views and opinions quite dogmatically. I will only say that I am very pleased with the sound and performance of my ARC gear.
Having said that, it is important to reiterate that one should be circumspect about matching gear, especially amps and speakers. In this regard, I admit that my choice of amp and speakers was *NOT* the result of a conscious, deliberate and informed decision.
If you catch my posts over the last several years, it will be quite evident that I came to my current set-up through dumb luck and not much more. Fortunately, my ARC Ref 150, even though a tube amp, can handle my speakers, which were designed and voiced to be driven by a high power/current SS amp. That speaks more to the Ref 150 than me. :(
In addition, I think that there is much to be said about equipment synergy. In my case, I am not concerned about this issue because I chose to stay all ARC.
Happy Holidays to all,
Bruce |
My vote falls with Mechans and Charles1Dad. |
I'm happy to hear that, although I suspected as much. I will have to check back with you guys after my tax refund comes in for opinions on a suitable preamp. Without opening up a new can of worms, but if you had to choose between which of the two components to invest the most in would it be the amp or preamp? Maybe that's the subject for a different thread? |
Ebuzz,
You ask logical questions that don't have definitive answers. Both are important and the weak link in a system will stand out. For this hypothetical choice I'm just bias toward good solid quality tube amplifiers that utilize high quality transformers. The transformer is critical to achieve good sound quality and makes or breaks the amplifier IMO. If in addition good capacitors, resistors and other good parts are used with high built standard, you're on your way. In my own experience the amplifier-speaker match has profound ramifications.
Obviously these principles apply to preamplifiers as well. If forced to prioritize, amplifier first then the preamp. I think you're on your way toward a very satisfying audio system.
Charles, |
But does it ever end?? ;) |
Depends on your personality. I had my prior system virtually unchanged for 12-14 years. My current system is 4 years old and will remain into the foreseeable future. Did some fine tuning the past year but that's done now. Once I reach a certain point enough is enough. You can become obsessive about audio components if you don't watch yourself and place more emphasis on the sound rather than enjoyment of your music.
Charles, |
I agree Charles & that's what I intend to do. This is my first real change since 1997 with the exception of new interconnects and speaker cables. I will stick with this for a while and after a tube preamp, that should do for quite some time. |
But does it ever end?? ;) No. And if you do it right, it gets better :) |
So, my Jolida 1000P tube amp arrived and I'm just beginning to getting it broken in. I had an issue with a low hum. I wasn't sure if it was a natural noise from the tubes or a problem. It was an almost imperceptible hum that you could only hear if you put your ear right up next to the speaker. It got worse when I connected the preamp so I put a cheater plug on the preamp and it's all but gone. Probably just a ground loop.
Also, I changed from my SS preamp and bought a BAT VK-51 SE tubed preamp. Now, I'm all tubes!
I only have less than 20 hrs on the amp so it's not nearly broken in yet.
Looking forward to getting it going.
Now, soon I'll need to ask about tube buffers, stock or add on feet or blocks for the preamp, vibrapods, or whatever etc... |
I have Vibrapods (or their equivalent) under everything...under my main speakers, amp, DAC, me, etc. You can find relatively inexpensive sorbothane stick-on feet if you look around. The ones under my Jolida are some heavier duty sorbothane things that pre-date pods but are substantial enough for the weight and don't squash out so much. Enjoy your tubes...I've said before, tubes and tube owners are more fun. |
I hope we're more fun, Wolf. I went for the complete mod on the Jolida that included
"4 EAR compliant Sorbothane isolation feet" to replace the stock feet plus I have it sitting on a Mapleshade type dense wood block. So that might be enough for that piece. |
Very interesting to read about your trek thru the tube amp wilderness Ebuzz. Would love to hear your impressions as things settle in.
I started a somewhat similar trek 2 weeks ago by getting an upgraded Jolida 502P- I've had it for about 2 weeks now. Breaking in nicely and have been comparing it to my recently repaired Conrad Johnson MF 2300A SS amp. Totally different presentations. The CJ has a lot more power into my Maggie 1.7 but I really don't notice a difference in power so much as a difference in presentation.
The CJ has a darker smoother presentation with more powerful bass (not surprising at about 500 watts into the 4 ohm load of the Maggies vs 60 for the Jolida). The highs and general stage detail are more noticeable from the Jolida and the soundstage is a bit deeper and surprisingly more 3D. Am really amazed how two amps can sound so different and yet I like the presentation from both.
My intention when I bought the Jolida (My first excursion into power amp tubes) was simply to get a starting point of reference with a tube amp at a very reasonable cost and then decide where to go from there. After 2 weeks I'm really liking the Jolida 502P and I'm amazed that it can compete so effectively with a much more expensive amp. Fun times!
Wolf, I put in Vibrapods under my 502 at your suggestion- nice! |
Yes, EJ, it's been an interesting experience making the switch from SS to tube. Since I'm still breaking-in my components,it's a little early to give a full evaluation, but I have noticed an improvement in depth and sound stage even at this early juncture. More to come.... |
I've never looked after switching from my SS Hafler 500 to tubes over 15 years ago. I've owned tubes ever since and I've had no problems. Zero. I have never owned ARC or Conrad Johnson gear as I've heard of people having to spend $$$ on repairs for amps from those manufacturers. I've read that some tube amps have very complex circuitry and they run their tubes hot with a high bias. It's been stated that this leads to short tube life, or even worse, a tube failure along with some circuit damage when the tube blows. You want an amp with more simple, rather than complex circuitry, that runs the bias relatively low to avoid these problems. I came to these conclusions by asking friends, people at stereo shows, and even dealers I could trust about reliability issues. I've owned McIntosh MC 30, Dynaco Mk III, MkII, ST70 and I currently have Quicksilver V4's for the front, Quicksilver Silver 88's for the rear surround speakers, and a Dynaco ST70 bridged to 70 watts mono for the center channel in my home theater. I had a Counterpoint SA2000 hybrid tube preamp that I used for over a decade without a single problem. The Quicksilvers are very simple to bias, you just press a button, look at the readout on the meter on the amp, and turn a screwdriver. I checked them once per week when I first got them and now I've checked them about every 6 months. I very rarely have to adjust them, because the tubes are not run hot with a high bias, so they rarely sway from their initial bias setting. Auto bias is a fine convenience, but you don't really need it if you have a simple gauge set up like the Quicksilvers have. The Sonic Frontiers line of amps had this simple bias adjusting set up as well. I am in heaven now that I recently acquired a Zesto Leto preamp and a Zesto Andros phono stage. These two will be keepers for the long haul! What's kept me with tubes all these years is the freedom from grain, the liquidity, and the sheer honest beauty of the sound. I get the illusion of an actual cello, violin, guitar, or oboe physically there in the room with me. Not just a great sounding instrument also located in a similar place within the soundstage like I get when listening to solid state, but an actual airy physical presence emanating from within the instrument in a defined space within the soundstage. A holographic illusion that just keeps me coming back for more. I get the illusion of a singer physically in the room, and backup singers in the room as well. Everything just seems so much more airy, real sounding, and visceral through my tube gear than through my good friends' solid state systems. And they've spent more than double what I've got into my system at this point! |
Something about tubes...the even order harmonics, something. When I talked to Jolida Jerred in MD about the 502 prior to ordering one, he pointed out that the newer version with mods was a more "modern" sound inspire by home theater (!). Huh? In any case, I have mine hooked up to a REL sub that takes care of the lower bass so well that all is cohesive...Jolidas still seem like an serious bargain. |
Nostubeman,
You captured well the special qualities of good tube components particularly the power amplifiers. Tactile presence, flesh on the bone and true natural tonality= convincing realism. So far as with you I've not gotten this level of believability from any SS amplifier, at least so far.
Charles, |
Nostubeman has 5 tube amps in his listening room and consequently doesn't own a sweater. I too have noticed the palpable image created by my rig of musicians "in the room," which I often prefer to having real musicians in my room as they tend to drink all my booze. |
LOL Wolf!!! As I now embark on my tube-life, I was wondering what sort, if any, isolation devices are best placed under my amp and preamp? Rubber? African Zebra wood? Myrtle wood? or perhaps the old rubber inner tube trick? |
definitely TUBE, biggest fattest tubes you can get, and it will almost always sound better if you have the knowledge and determination to build the amp yourself, just a thought, I am currently building a very customized modded out VTA ST/70 Dynaco and have thrown out the idea of EL34s for KT88s but am now thinking about KT120s, I believe this is going to become a very hot tube the 120 so I am buying them up while the price is not out of this world yet. kk |
I stuck some substantial sorbothane feet I've had for years under the amp as it's about 50 lbs...and Vibrapods under the preamp and CD player. I also have little stick-on sorbothane feet under my DAC and phono preamp, and even under my Squeezebox Touch...if nothing else they keep things put as they're sticky little bastards. It makes sense to place the "pods" touching the bottom plate and NOT the feet as that can allow them to absorb or dampen more of the pesky, unwanted vibes. |
