To Fuse or Not to Fuse... That is the question!

If you do use a fuse , on synergistic research, You install going with the lettering Left to Right as well as Hifi tuning they have an arrow.
to know how it will sound best very easy going to the positive legg
for example , looking at the IEC input ,if the ground which is the single terminal of the 3 ,if it is on the bottom then your positive terminal will be on the Right
just the opposite if the ground is upside down, this way you don’t 
have to try it both ways the Positive legg is best. Inside you want to go from a connector or terminal to where the electricity is flowing to down stream at the 1st stage if you will. Hopefully this will save someone time from having to figure it out.

roberttcan ...

 

• Due to ROHS you don't see lead in fuses these days. You may find some still in military. Tin/Zinc alloys are used in time delays fuses primarily and I believe in some very small value fuses.

What effect, if any, do you think the use of graphene in fuses would be? In fact, in any audio applications at all such as cabling, power conditioning, etc.

Frank

The use of Graphene where in fuses? This dog has been been to death already. Be careful what you wish for.

OMG! A walking Wikipedia! 🚶🏻‍♂️ It should probably be mentioned at this point that Graphene is not used inside the fuse to prevent any unnecessary confusion. But don’t let that stop you. 

One of us doesn’t understand and it’s not me. Guess who that leaves? 😳 Uh, oh, You suddenly seem very familiar. But maybe I’m getting my know-it-all pseudo skeptics mixed up.

You should probably take a gander at the SR Black fuse and Cerious Cables Graphene Cables. Not to mention PERFECT PATH GRAPHENE contact enhancer. I thought Frank would be all over this one. Wait till ya get a load of the Audio Magic Beeswax fuse. I can hardly wait. 🤗

Huge resistance bottleneck which robs low level detail as well as grunge noise especially low level.

¿Que?

Littelfuse spec 5A 250v Slo-Blo 21.4mΩ
Measured 22mΩ with precision supply and resistor divider @ ≈115mA

Measured R after 10 minutes at each current.
0.55A 31mΩ
1.10A 31mΩ
2.20A 31mΩ

Power Transformer input Z ≈100Ω. Fuse is 0.023% of input Z.

Please explain how ZERO change in fuse characteristics can rob low level detail.

Crappy holders in harsh environments can create ugly artifacts. Ditto poor quality or wrong characteristic holders or fuses.

roberttcan to geoffkait:

"You use the word science ... a lot. But you and I know how science works."

geoffkait,

You fooled him.

"Graphene has a melting point of 4900K. I am not sure how practical it would be to use as a fuse."

Wait! You say graphene cannot make everything better? It does not have that magic touch that I learned about from one famous audiogon member’s posts over time? No photonic power? What a shame.

I will have him eating out of my hand, glubby. Or talking to my hand. We’ll have to see. 👀

• You should probably take a gander at the SR Black fuse and Cerious Cables Graphene Cables. Not to mention PERFECT PATH GRAPHENE contact enhancer. I thought Frank would be all over this one. Wait till ya get a load of the Audio Magic Beeswax fuse. I can hardly wait. 🤗

Yep. And the Blue and Orange fuses as well. Just don't ask me how it works.  I Don't care how ... I only know that it does.  How's that for a scientific analysis? *lol*

Frank

ieales

Littelfuse spec 5A 250v Slo-Blo 21.4mΩ
Measured 22mΩ with precision supply and resistor divider @ ≈115mA

Measured R after 10 minutes at each current.
0.55A 31mΩ
1.10A 31mΩ
2.20A 31mΩ

Power Transformer input Z ≈100Ω. Fuse is 0.023% of input Z.

Please explain how ZERO change in fuse characteristics can rob low level detail.

Crappy holders in harsh environments can create ugly artifacts. Ditto poor quality or wrong characteristic holders or fuses.

👍

This says it all, "if" you voodooist fusers can understand

Good work for the effort measuring


And if you want to change your old crusty fuses that may have seen too many turn on cycles (pics attached), then do it with the same $1 fuse, not the BS $150 SR boutique ones, as they will sound the same and age just as fast.

Pics of fast and slow blo fuses that have seen too many turn on cycles over a couple of years.
https://ibb.co/PzWvzwr (left to right over time aging)
https://ibb.co/17Tvy6t (right to left over time aging)


Cheers George

Frank please don’t use the words science or scientific as some people might get very upset. School, as a kid, my mother would say, “You should enjoy it. One day you’ll have to work for a living.” No, I won’t, ma. I’m going to me a comedian. 🤡

roberttcan,
Do you work for Thermotron? That is a great company & one I'm very familiar with (I live in the area). We had one of their chambers in our R&D facility for years. It served us well. 

Speaking of thermal chambers, a friend of mine who worked at Wright Patt AFB in Dayton, Ohio volunteered to see how long he could make it in a thermal chamber at 400 deg. F. He was in street clothes in the chamber for 25 minutes, no big deal. I worked at W-P in a pink building with no windows.

"I worked at W-P in a pink building with no windows...."

...but it did have padded walls.

"Don’t care how ... I only know that it does. How’s that for a scientific analysis?"

Be careful, someone could say that the answer would be in psychoanalysis.

One of these days the concept that merely first replacing An old fuse with a similar new one or merely just reseating the existing one better can make a difference in sound will sink in with those who still do not get it.
Having replaced many fuses for customers over the years I think that may have been my very first point I ever made here regarding the popular topic of fuses and have even re-iterated it a few times as I recall but it’s not something fancy fuse pushers seem to have any interest in. Go figure!

Factoid #1
Flapping bedsheets vigorously, for a duration of no shorter than 16 minutes*, during the vernal equinox* will bring on the aurora borealis.

*It has yet to be determined at what point excessive flapping becomes counter-productive.
*This is, of course, hemispherically dependent.

Factoid #2
Blowing big bux fuses can put a serious strain on one’s discretionary funds, or worse, household budget, and can sometimes, but not always, lead to domestic discord. A more positive outcome might be a reexamination of one’s audio goals and priorities.

No doubt ... this is an expensive hobby. I sometimes wonder if it's more expensive than a heroin habit.

Frank

And if you want to change your old crusty fuses that may have seen too many turn on cycles (pics attached), then do it with the same $1 fuse, not the BS $150 SR boutique ones, as they will sound the same and age just as fast.

Pics of fast and slow blo fuses that have seen too many turn on cycles over a couple of years.
https://ibb.co/PzWvzwr (left to right over time aging)
https://ibb.co/17Tvy6t (right to left over time aging)


Cheers George

I worked next to the Air Force office of UFO research, Operation BlueBook 👽 and down the street from Air Force Office of Medical Research where my friend Steve Lacy was in the heat chamber. This was about the time when there was intense research into temperature effects for astronauts, and how many g’s humans can withstand, that sort of thing. Remember Col Stapp?😬 When I worked in the pink building with no windows I was involved in, well, I probably shouldn’t say. But it wasn’t Mary Kay cosmetics. 💋

Was your job to make sure the fuses were installed in the right direction?

Don’t be catty, jitter. 😺

Wiki - The fuse element is made of zinc, copper, silver, aluminum, or alloys to provide stable and predictable characteristics. The fuse ideally would carry its rated current indefinitely, and melt quickly on a small excess.

and thus (or restated) it's end result of very high levels of non linearity, and production of odd ordered harmonics as a reflection, or final effect of it's behavior when dealing with dynamic current draw.

The cheapest way to a more linear draw is to go with a 'long lag' fuse in place of a short lag or fast blow fuse. 

But such a substitution of a fuse type is not really all that 'legal' as rated fuses in gear also includes the lag aspects as part of their specification and use in that particular piece of gear. It is integral to the legal status of the electrical approval of the given device.

The question in audiophile fuses, is if the given audiophile fuse meets the spec required for that given piece of gear it is placed in.

The more I read about fuses and the distortion and noise they bring the happier I am I don’t use them any more. I thank my lucky stars ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ Color me a happy camper. 🤗

Imax cinema of focused sound

¿Que?

Zippy top over a swirly bucket of midrange mush?

So these Tap dancing monks with the orange fuses, do they sell on line?

"...where my friend Steve Lacy was in the heat chamber."

Tough job. Poor Steve must have been burnt-out.

"The more I read about fuses and the distortion and noise they bring the happier I am I don’t use them any more."

More expensive fuses should be marketed as "noise-cancelling", or at least as "noise-non-inducing".

Would an airplane be less noisy if it used more expensive fuses?

"To Fuse or Not to Fuse... That is the question!"

This may, in fact, be a wrong forum to discuss that. NASS annual meetings may be better.

Actually, Steve Lacy breezed through the 400 degree experiment with ease. None the worse for wear from what I recall. Well, except for the twitching. Cleared up his asthma, though. That was around 1968, the experiment probably resulted from the fatal Apollo 1 fire that killed three astronauts. That was in 1967. But I’m just guessing,

the post stated the input impedance of a power transformer to be 100 ohms. That would not be correct, certainly for large transformers and that does not take into account the reflected impedance of the output circuitry.

Correct.
Line voltage is 117VAC, primary idle current ≈ 1.2A. Z = V / I for simplicity.
Primary L = 85mH, R ≈ 0.6Ω. Z ≈ 32.05Ω @ 60Hz. Somewhat different with 5 loaded secondaries.

"Actually, Steve Lacy breezed through the 400 degree experiment with ease."

In that case, he must have been a very cool guy.

Coincidentally, I usually bake pizza for 25 minutes at 400 Fahrenheit. Seems very hot from outside, or when I reach in.

Roberttcan

jae48 said he would like to set up a room at an audio show so that we can run some double blind tests like this. I am willing to put in some good money, heck I would put up a grand. You? Wouldn’t you like to, for once, be able to point to a large listening group test that clearly, in front of pundits and naysayers alike proved what you are claiming?

This is not the place to promote gambling. We’ve been through this before. Beware the audio guru.

What’s especially absurd about this "put your money where your mouth is" taunt is that if you really seek an objective test, you’d want to remove as many variables and outside influences as possible. Obviously, making money part of the equation can only interfere with the results.

Personally, I don’t see any need to prove to others what I hear. They can accept or reject my observations as they see fit. No need for a wager, argument, or time-consuming listening tests.

All I know is after blowing  a SR Blue 5A fuse in my 5A amp rated amp (ARC VSI75), I blew two more, 6.3 amp blue fuses after about the same 210 hours of usage....I like what it did but....no more...put a new stock fuse in and it seemed alot better then the 2 year old stock fuse.....

nb_dude
All I know is after blowing a SR Blue 5A fuse in my 5A amp rated amp (ARC VSI75), I blew two more, 6.3 amp blue fuses after about the same 210 hours of usage....I like what it did but....no more...put a new stock fuse in and it seemed alot better then the 2 year old stock fuse.....

>>>>>Undoubtedly it’s because you inserted the new stock fuse in the correct direction, accidentally, whereas the 2 year old stock fuse was in the wrong direction, accidentally. What are the odds? And it’s not even broken in yet. 😬