Tidal Speakers owners

Bostonbean, I guess you must have had good seats at the concert hall.

In the past week I have seen performances by the Boston Symphony Orchestra of Dvorak's Cello Concerto and Brahm's Piano Concerto #2. I have recordings of both and now when I listen to each of them the Piano Diacera's virtually put me back in Boston Symphony Hall. It is uncanny the realism I hear when playing these recordings and I am ecstatic.

Dev...yes.that is correct...at last check, which is awhile ago..obviously not for everyone but for those who can afford them they are great..

Calloway, did I read right LIST is $80K for these?

charles1dad...all very true....i couldn't have said it better...they are very special...and you are correct in all respects...

To judge an amplifier bass on # of watts seems shortsighted. Given the design,part selection and execution of the Chalice Grail I suspect it will out perform "many" higher power Solid state amplifiers regardless of stated power rating/watts. This ultra built SET design would have un matched natural beauty,realism and sublime tone/timbre and just bring music to life.

Calloway, I wish I could have heard that comparison. Thanks.

tgb....for what it's worth, one of the owners of the 'grail' amps did compare the 'grail' to the 'ypsilon' monoblocks and thought the 'grail' was much better...and bought them..

Calloway, I certainly have not heard a large range of amps on my Contriva Diacera SEs, but I was both very unimpressed and very impressed with the BAlabi BP-1 Power amps on Tidal Sunrays. The first be in CES 2010 and the second in CES 2011. Perhaps this was the difference between the Mk I and Mk II. I bought them having heard them on the Ypsilon prototype DHT mono SET tube amps using the Russian GM70 tubes with their present PST 100 preamp. This was overwhelmingly good in my opinion and lead directly to my buying the speakers. I don't remember what the power of these tube amps but with this tube it should be over 30 watts. I have also used the BMC Amp M1s that do 200 watts into 8 ohms. I wanted to get the Ypsilon Aelius hybrid, mono blocks with 220 watts into 8 ohms but could not afford them. I have been very happy with the BMC and they are still getting better. Finally, I heard the Tidal electronics on the Tidal Piano Cera speakers (I think). They sound was okay.

I think all of these experiences make believe I will live with the BMC as still getting better.

argyro....having heard the wavac and owning the chalice 'grail' i can tell you they are much better then the wavac...very few people have heard the 'grails'... they are ..in the opinion of those that have heard them..possibly the best SET in the world.the bass with the 'grails' is superb...and the 50 watts easily drives them..and is super fast...it is a combination made in heaven...they aren't the average '50 watts'..that's one reason they are so expensive..

The bass of the Contriva is lightning fast and with excellent extension! However I seriously doubt that 50W can do it justice! I have heard the Contrivas with the Wavac 833 150W and it didn't do justice to this speaker!

Just my 2 cents.

Happy Listening,

Mike

maceear..thanks for the reply. yes..they are the most amazing amps i have ever heard....thanks

Calloway.. Yes, these 50 watts SET must be a fantastic match with your Contriva's.

maceear...i am not sure i understood your last post....the chalice audio 'grail' are 50 watt amps..is that what you were asking..?..

Calloway - Chalice Audio Grail. If I had the opportunity. 50 Watt’s SET…

audioblazer..i have the contriva diacera-se speaker and power them with monoblock SET amps and the bass is the most realistic bass i have heard. it does not overpower any of the other frequencies and is so natural.i listen to classical symphonies..heavy metal and most every other music genre..the tidal CDSE does everything perfectly...to me. i compared most of the speakers in the same price range before making my decision...as this purchase was going to be my last speaker ...so i wanted to get it as right as i could...i listened to the yg acoustic anat references ..magico q5 and lower models...wilson sashas'...marten coltrane's....accapella high violin.........and yes, focal speakers in the 'utopia' line..and others..and the tidals' just got everything right..they are considered among the best..for a very good reason...

Audioblazer, My living room is about
Length 26.3 feet(8 mtr),
Width is 16.4 feet (5 mtr) and the
Height is 10.2 feet (3.1 mtr).
The bass goes very deep without the hill which some speakers have at around 80 to 100 Hz. It is fast and sounds natural and in phase with the music. I don’t have the idea that the impedance of the Contriva is going very low so the bass isn’t drawing too much juice from the amplifier. I did try a 2.5 watt SET and you can make music with it, but not at very loud levels…..
Regards Robert

audioblazer, there are much better choices.

Audioblazer, the Contriva review in Audiobeat used Audio Research Ref.110, and Lamm M1.2 Ref.monos. Both put out around same 110watts into 8/4ohms--I think..

Maceear , thanks for your response. I suppose a review create an uncertainty for me about the bass fr diacera se. I suppose a 18 watter reviewer used is not good enough to produce the necessary bass. May I know your room size.

Hello Audioblazer. I’m familiar with the Watt/Puppies and Sasha and I own the TIDAL Contriva (all ceramic).
Believe me, they have a very fine and deep bass. You even can make some corrections related to your room.
They do not emphasize bass but give a very realistic deep en speedy bass and in line with the (for me) perfect mid and highs. I do play jazz, blues, rock all the time at loud levels with a 120 watt tube amp. I can imagine that a solid state amp is more beefy, but I’m very, very pleased with my bass from my Contriva’s.
Hope this helps.
Regards Robert

Hi I m considering tidal contriva diacera se. However I m not sure about the bass performance when its uses only 2 9" woofer. Also it's pretty expensive for a "small" speakers. Is considering maxx 2 ( cheaper) but preferably maxx 3 and eggleston savoy signature with 4 12" woofer & 2 mid bass drivers. Would bigger size confers bigger presentation unlike the comparatively smallish tidal contriva diacera se speakers.
Your feedback much appreciated

Hi I m quite interested in tidal contriva diacera se. However I was wondering how good is the bass when it's has only 2 9" woofer? Am comparing with eggleston savoy signature with 4 12" woofer & 2 mid bass drivers.
Theaudiobeat review seems to claim that the bass may not be their strong point.
Your feedback is much appreciated

Bostonbean, but hearing is believing.

"That's true of any speaker; Tidal is not unique in that regard."

Audiofell, you are absolutely right.

>>10-10-11: Bostonbean
These are speakers best heard, not described<<

That's true of any speaker; Tidal is not unique in that regard.

IMO

I have had my Tidal Piano Diaceras for about 2 months now and have accumulated around 400-450 hours of playing time. I am having great fun listening to them. I am not even going to try to describe or analyze what I am hearing. These are speakers best heard, not described.

I will say this, these speakers are allowing me to appreciate music that I had not before. For example, I had never really appreciated the harpsichord. But I dusted off some Bach harpsichord concerto discs and gave them a listen. The Piano Diaceras allow me to hear what I had been missing. The intricacies of the music and the interplay between the harpsichord and the orchestra are laid out in detail and can be easily heard. I am now listening to several discs, with much greater insight and appreciation of the music, that before just collected dust. I am having great fun, indeed!

The Piano lines, with their small footprint, are ideal for medium to smallish size listening areas. And with the Variogain technology they are easily adaptable for all manner of listening areas. Condo and apartment dwellers should seriously consider the Piano line of speakers. In addition, you will not miss a single musical note when playing at low volume.

Finally, took awhile to get the toe-in right. I initially started with much toe-in but now I have very little resulting in a better distributed sound stage.

Hello Maceear,

in argento-organic cables there is no silver sound or copper sound, you do not understand anything in the sound that has to do with the material as in other cables. The Organic is better than the Serenity, I would go for the organic.

Happy Listening,

Mike

Yes, I have been listening to classical, jazz, blue grass, etc., with wonderful results. But I decided to throw in the Led Zeppelin 1 cd.

Dazed and Confused...awesome! Along with the rest of the album. You can really hear how important John Bonham was to the group.

These speakers can get down and dirty, and rock.

This album was suprisingly well recorded and produced, and transferred nicely to cd. Just goes to show a well produced and recorded album can sound good both on vinyl and cd.

Argyro, can you say something about the Argento Serenity and Organic cables, since you have heard them both I think?
What is the main difference between the Silver and the Copper cable on the Tidal? I did use the Zu Ibis and now the Argento Serenity and there is much difference..
Thanks
Robert

Tbg, Yes, they do those little Zilplex bowls. They are amazing and flexible. You must know what you are doing but there is almost a positive effect. When I got my (All Ceramic) Contriva’s, I didn’t install them to get used to the Tidals. Later I reported that the results are lesser then with the Avalon Opus. But now with little readjustments of the ceiling Zilpex, I got the disappearing walls again in the same way as with the Opussen (4-way). The setup must be in order, the Zilpexes can’t do wonders but then they “connect” with the music and the musicians are surrounded with air and space. Listen to Eva Cassidy’s: “Autumn Leaves” (Live At Blues Alley) and she is there… Not a perfect album in the audiophile sense but very very involving. Like the Tidal’s slogan “We Build Emotions” you became emotional connected with the music.
Another “hit” is Patricia Barber’s “Yesterday” and also her interpretation of “Autumn Leaves” from “Nightclub”.
There is something else what I sense with the Contriva’s more then with other speakers: There is a specific volume (plus or minus a few db’s) that is perfect for a specific song or title. Sure it has to do with your room and what’s in it. But when you reach this level then PLOP, you’re transported to the musicians or they are transported to your room, depending on the recording and or mix. All these thing happens also without the Zilpexes, but they make everything much more easy. The do a little bass control, lift the height of the voices, makes your podium wider without loosing dept and many more.. It’s Magic and it’s NOT.

Regards Robert

Maceear, Long ago I read your comments on the Zilplexes. I got a set in for review and must say on my rereading your comments I totally agee about the walls disappearing. They are amazing little devices all working in harmony.

Bvdiman, Wasn't my intent to put any burdens on you. I just respect your opinion.

I will have to do a System post with pictures here on Audiogon someday. Though I will say may listening area is very humble compared to your beautiful setup. I do not have the area in my modest condo for a dedicated listening area.

Bostonbean,
I was seriously holding my breath, crossing fingers with sincere hope (knowing taste, mileage etc.could vary) that you will 'get it' too! You got me momentarily worried there held as being partly responsible with the choice. :p

Yes, I recalled we had a couple of nice exchanges in the past when I still had my Magico Mini2/V3. At that time, we were both lurking around at some M5 thread?! ;))

Anyway, really glad that you got along great with initial impressions. That had at least gotten some burden off me now.. 'pheww'.. ;p You expressed it very well, awaiting more from you.

In the meantime, if you have the time and/or inclination, please do share your wonderful set-up plus some pics here with us.

Most importantly, enjoy!

I have had my Piano Diacera's going on 4 days and I would like to share a short first impression.

These are the most unassuming speakers I have ever heard. They bring absolutely no attention to themselves. What I mean is these speakers totally get out of the way of the music. When listening to music they don't just disappear, they don't exist! It's like they are saying "Forget about us, just listen to the music." I have never had such unfettered access to music before. I am totally connected to every note I hear and I literally forget that I am listening to a stereo system.

I have left the speakers in the default setup, i.e., jumper arrangements. Speakers are 86 inches apart with my listening positon the same 86 inches from each speaker. I have them toed in quite a bit with the axis point about 12-18 inches behind my head. I tried different distances, closer/further, with the speakers remaining at the same 86 inches and different toe in angles. Through pure dumb luck I hit upon this, for me, ultimate setup though it might change a little after some more run in time.

My components:
BAT REX preamp
BAT VK-D5SE cd player
Spectron Musician III MKII mono amps with V-cap and Bybee filters
Elrod Gold Statement pc's for BAT equipment, Elrod Silver Statement pc's for amps and Elrod Silver Signature speaker cables.
Interconnects: Synergistic Research Magnetic Tricon.

I'll post more later.

Bostonbean, welcome to Tidalist family, what's rest of your system?

Thanks Bvdiman, You are one of the reasons I looked at Tidal. I was looking to upgrade a long time ago and had listened to Magico V2's last year. They had a seductive sound but not something I would want to listen to on an ongoing basis. Too slice and dice in my opinion. Seeing that you went from Magico's to Tidal made me decide to look into Tidal speakers. Fell in love with the Piano Cera's and in the end went with the Piano Diacera's.

Thanks for your indirect help.

Congrats Bostonbean!
Let it run a bit, mine still continue to improve even after six months.. Around 600hrs. The sound became fuller yet tighter, improved resolution yet more relaxed at the same time.. Amazing!
Enjoy yours,

I received my Piano Diacera's this morning. Took about four months to receive after initial payment. I was like Pope Julius II impatiently waiting for Michelangelo to paint the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel. It was worth the wait. The craftsmanship is impeccable. These were built with real German pride.

The shipping company that Tidal hired here in the US was great. They sent three men to unpack and carry the speakers up to my condo. The packing case is awesome. The shippers were going to take it and I told them no way.

I am going to let them run-in for about a month before I make any comments to their sound. I want to get to know my Piano's for awhile.

Cheers

Bases on a review by Jeff Fritz of SoundStage, many are claiming that there is a new king of the hill in speakers, the Magico Q3 in a thread by that title. In my opinion the Magico Q3 is very good but not the equal of my Tidal Contriva Diacera SEs, but I am somewhat biased as, with the exception of the V3, I have never liked Magicos and have always been mystified by other reviewers raving about them. I guess one shoe doesn't fit all feet. If you want to be further perplexed read Jeff's review of the Piano Ceras and then the Q3 review.

The 2010 (and current) retail price of the Tidal Piano stands just below $23,000. I don't think the seller was deliberately misrepresenting the price, but may not have realized that there was lowering of retail prices when Tidal established new distribution over a year ago. Insofar as the older price ($16-17K), that was circa 2006 when the dollar was much stronger against European currencies and (yet again) had a different distributor as well.

There is a Tidal Piano (no other designation) now on agon. However the original price is listed as $26k, and in researching it seems that the original price for a "basic" Piano, at least according to a 6moons review, was in the 17k-18k range. Am I missing something? On a sidenote, it is being sold by Jtinn, whom I believe is involved with Evolution Acoustics. Did he buy these to compare to his product? Wonder what he thought? The Tidals and EvoAcoustics seem to be two of the hotter brands in terms of show opinions.

Here is a good review of the Piano Cera by Jeff Fritz:

http://ultraaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143:tidal-piano-cera-loudspeakers&catid=44:feature-articles&Itemid=37

Tidal review on Ultra Audio

http://ultraaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143:tidal-piano-cera-loudspeakers&catid=44:feature-articles&Itemid=37

Quanmer, yes I too think it's George Benson, love that song too! Maybe Calloway can chime in here for title and album. Got more than ten albums of Benson but can't yet locate that piece. Pretty sure that it is his system still with old amp.

Calloway, great posting in Youtube btw, it even sounded alive through my computer--and sure is an inspirational clip for would be Tidalist. What did you use to record with? Please do another with your new amp! ;)

That song sounds like George Benson to me, but not sure.

Does anyone know which music was played in this YouTube video clip : http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=TW#/watch?v=8SLs4HHbgWQ

The Contriva Diacera TT was a limited series of only 5 pairs with the original Sunray drivers, pure silver parts (as for our Sunray / T1 models), a whole new internal wiring concept incl. a new terminal for passive and active bi-amping incl. our silver/goldplated softcopper binding posts from the Sunray.
Well, the drivers itself were more expensive then the drivers we build into our other speakers, but this is just a smaller part on the list, the major part and biggest difference is the massive silver PIO Cast parts we used for this speaker and the whole new x-overdesign which we adopted to the new drivers. And I am not talking about some standard silverfoil caps as for e.g. Mundorf Supreme parts, I am talking about high µF-values in massive silver, and these parts alone are more expensive then the big diamond tweeter in it.
The two aluminum rings in the front do have a positive influence to the reflections of the grills and just show that it is not just a "tuned Contriva Diacera". Each pair also needed much more hours to build it then a serial pair of Contriva Diacera. If one is one of the few persons who saw and heard one then one should know if this speaker is a different ballgame even the serial speakers :-).

Below is an e-mail excerpt from Jörn which may help clarify query no.2 above.
I would also add that there are a couple more of 'nice little touches' as per their specs (beside drivers) differentiating the TT designation.
____________________________________________________________

"There will be no price increase at all to the TIDAL models,
Contriva / Contriva Diacera in particular since the drivers are not much
more expensive. The Sunray long excursion woofers with their short coil-long
gap design are much more expensive compared to the other drivers we build
into all other speakers we have, this was also why the TT was pretty
dramatic higher in price as well."

With best regards from Germany,
Jörn Janczak
CEO
TIDAL Audio GmbH

Wadav, I have only heard one good sounding Magico, the V3.

I have no idea relative to your second question.

The sweetspot with the Tidals as with all speakers is speaker width, toe-in, your room, cabling, and room treatment determined. I have a very broad sound stage.