Showing 50 responses by bostonbean
A couple of questions on the Piano Cera's for those that own or have listened to them. 1. I have read that the Piano's are great with rock music but how do they handle symphonic music, i.e., Mozart, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, etc? 2. How do they image? 3. Is the bass coherent? I am more favorible to coherence versus lower octaves. Also I am a little suspicious of ported speakers. I am looking to upgrade my speakers and these fall within my price range so any answers to my questions will be greatly appreciated. |
Calloway and Linkster, Thank you for your responses. And Linkster, I sent you an e-mail regarding your kind offer. I have made arrangements to see Doug down in Philly to audition the Piano Diaceras. He does not have any Ceras for audition. I have been looking for speakers that can play both rock and symphonic music. The Tidals may fit the bill. I was thinking of the new Magico Q3's. I have auditioned the V2's which were wonderful on classical music but with rock they sounded, as John Potis so perfected described JM Lab speakers in the Tidal Piano speaker review, fractured. Which, in my opinion, pretty much reflects how rock music is recorded with seperate recording rooms for musicians and overly mixing. With speakers there is a fine line between detail and too much detail. I am guessing that Tidal has hit that right spot. Also, I see that Bvdiman, who has owned or tried just about every iteration of Magico speakers has gone to Tidal. This says much to me. My only fear is that I may end up going the the Piano Diaceras. Using the rational that if I was willing to spend $34K for the Q3's why not spend a few thousand more and get the Diacera's. |
"...and (gulp!) rock." Yes Rtn1, I am a long way from being a young man but I do like rock. Actually what is call Adult Rock which is probably a euphemism for old peoples rock. Wilco, Dave Matthews Band, Mark Knopfler, etc. Yes, I went to the 6H30 in the switched position in my BAT REX a long time ago. I am a source guy believing that you can make what some would call ordinary speakers sound fantastic with very good electronics on the front end. But speakers do matter. I currently have Gallo 3.5's which I believe are fantastic speakers that do everything very well. Their only shortcoming imo is their height which when listening to symphonic music puts me in row AA when I want to be sitting in row M. I can alleviate that shortcoming somewhat by really cranking them up but that is not what I want to do all the time. I like the Gallo's so much in comparison to other speakers I have listened to costing 2 or 3 times as much (no snickering) that I have decided that I need to go way up the speaker ladder to get the significant improvements for which I am looking. I hope the Tidal Piano's are those speakers. Bvdiman, I will certainly post my impressions after listening to the Piano's. |
Tomorrow, Saturday, I will be auditioning the Piano Cera speakers. To add a little twist to the audition I will bring along my Spectron Musician III MKII amp. It will be interesting to see how the Cera's sound with a 600 wpc class D amp. April 6 it will be down to Philly to audition the Piano Diacera's. Will not be bringing the Spectron on that trip. |
Because of the kindness of Linkster I had an opportunity to audition the Piano Cera's this past Saturday. First let me say the Linkster has a fabulous system. He also introduced me to some great music of which I had been previously unaware. I had also brought along my Spectron Musician III MKII amp and Elrod power cord and speaker cables. Linkster's Einstein amp sounded wonderful. Very detailed. The Spectron amp also sounded wonderful to which I believe Linkster would attest. Maybe a bit less detail but larger dynamic range which falls in line with what Tidal says about more power to the Cera's on its web site. So it was a little bit of a relief that a change in amp is not something I need to do right now. I may change my mind in the future but for now I am sticking with the Spectron. Based on my listening experience with the Cera's I have put in an order for the Diacera's. The Cera's are an excellent value but I decided to spend the extra money on the Diacera's because these will be my last speakers. I really didn't want to get the Cera's and sit thinking what the Diacera's would be like. I am getting the Diacera's and now I am done looking for or thinking about other speakers. I hope the Spectron amp works as well with the Diacera's as with the Cera's. I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I ordered the standard black finish with the white ceramics. If there is a cabinet in stock it should take 60-90 days to take delivery. |
Thanks for your response Jorn. I couldn't agree with you more. There are many choices out there for everyone to build a system that is just right for them. Each component I have in my system along with my choice to purchase Tidal speakers is based on, yes, some input from others opinions and perspectives, but ultimately what I personally like. Why some find it necessary to disparage others choices is something I do not understand. I really enjoy reading others and sharing my own experiences with Tidal speakers and I sincerely hope this thread gets back to that. I would suggest that others who do not share the same enthusiasm for Tidal products should start a similar thread for their own products which they enjoy. |
Quanmer, Let me first say that I am by no means an audiophile and I will admit that I am pretty ignorant about much in the field of audio reproduction. I am, though, a music lover. The most important thing when listening to the reproduction of music for me is how natural it sounds to my ears. I say "my ears" because what sounds natural to me may not sound natural to someone else. That being said for several months now I have been looking to upgrade from my Gallo 3.5 speakers. I really enjoy the Gallo's but I did want a pair of speakers that were more expansive when playing symphonic music. I live in a moderately sized condo so when researching different speakers the size of the footprint was the first criteria I used when choosing or eliminating speakers from which to choose. There are many excellent speakers out there but if they are too big I just could not use them. Next, through reading reviews, owners impressions and in only a couple of listenings I looked for speakers with, again to my ears, the most natural sound. Natural to me is what music actually sounds like in real life. There are speakers that can give overly romanticized or beautiful sound, that "leaves a tear in my eye" sound. That is not for me. I have listened to the Boston Symphony Orchestra numerous times along with listening to several smaller concerts at Jordan Hall here in Boston. No matter how beautiful the music and how much it moved me it never gave me that "tear in my eye". This may not be clear to anyone but myself. Next there are speakers that separate every note and performer to the point that instead of hearing a whole you end up listening to each note and performer individually. I find this highly distracting and again, not natural. In my experience music in real life has notes and performers overlapping and melding together creating a whole. Along this same line imaging is neat but the overall soundstage is more important to me especially when listening to symphonic or "wall of sound" rock music. I want to hear a 3d or real life soundstage. What was really impressive with the Piano's was I could feel the ambiance of the venue where the recording was done on live material. My only other audition was of the Magico V2, a very fine speaker. It was very detailed but somewhat dry to my ears. This can be very seductive but for me not natural and not something I would want to listen to on an ongoing basis. Next, price. I was comfortably willing to go up to $35K. Beyond that price limit would have made me uncomfortable. Simple as that. Bottom line the Tidal Piano's more than met all the criteria I listed above. I am really looking forward to how they sound in my listening area. At that time I will give my impressions of them in greated detail. |
Some of you might enjoy this Youtube clip of the Piano Ceras at Munich 2011. Doesn't sound half bad considering it is on Youtube. Looks like long tall Jorn walking around answering questions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fplnydJ5Q-E |
A short piece about the Piano Cera's at Munich. You will need to scroll down. http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=155&catid=66&Itemid=160 |
I will be receiving my Piano Diacera's sometime in July. In the meantime I am doing a little bit of upgrading in other parts of my system mainly the amp. When listening to the Piano Ceras they sounded terrific with the Spectron amp in stereo mode. While the Piano's may not need a lot of power to sound great they will take any additional power fed to them quite happily. So, I decided to upgrade to Spectron mono amps. They will be here any day and that will give me the time to break them in thoroughly before the speakers arrive. I also ordered Elrod's Silver Statement pc's and Silver Signature speaker cables. I am a big fan of Elrod cables. That's it for now. Over and out. |
I received my Piano Diacera's this morning. Took about four months to receive after initial payment. I was like Pope Julius II impatiently waiting for Michelangelo to paint the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel. It was worth the wait. The craftsmanship is impeccable. These were built with real German pride. The shipping company that Tidal hired here in the US was great. They sent three men to unpack and carry the speakers up to my condo. The packing case is awesome. The shippers were going to take it and I told them no way. I am going to let them run-in for about a month before I make any comments to their sound. I want to get to know my Piano's for awhile. Cheers |
Thanks Bvdiman, You are one of the reasons I looked at Tidal. I was looking to upgrade a long time ago and had listened to Magico V2's last year. They had a seductive sound but not something I would want to listen to on an ongoing basis. Too slice and dice in my opinion. Seeing that you went from Magico's to Tidal made me decide to look into Tidal speakers. Fell in love with the Piano Cera's and in the end went with the Piano Diacera's. Thanks for your indirect help. |
I have had my Piano Diacera's going on 4 days and I would like to share a short first impression. These are the most unassuming speakers I have ever heard. They bring absolutely no attention to themselves. What I mean is these speakers totally get out of the way of the music. When listening to music they don't just disappear, they don't exist! It's like they are saying "Forget about us, just listen to the music." I have never had such unfettered access to music before. I am totally connected to every note I hear and I literally forget that I am listening to a stereo system. I have left the speakers in the default setup, i.e., jumper arrangements. Speakers are 86 inches apart with my listening positon the same 86 inches from each speaker. I have them toed in quite a bit with the axis point about 12-18 inches behind my head. I tried different distances, closer/further, with the speakers remaining at the same 86 inches and different toe in angles. Through pure dumb luck I hit upon this, for me, ultimate setup though it might change a little after some more run in time. My components: BAT REX preamp BAT VK-D5SE cd player Spectron Musician III MKII mono amps with V-cap and Bybee filters Elrod Gold Statement pc's for BAT equipment, Elrod Silver Statement pc's for amps and Elrod Silver Signature speaker cables. Interconnects: Synergistic Research Magnetic Tricon. I'll post more later. |
Bvdiman, Wasn't my intent to put any burdens on you. I just respect your opinion. I will have to do a System post with pictures here on Audiogon someday. Though I will say may listening area is very humble compared to your beautiful setup. I do not have the area in my modest condo for a dedicated listening area. |
Yes, I have been listening to classical, jazz, blue grass, etc., with wonderful results. But I decided to throw in the Led Zeppelin 1 cd. Dazed and Confused...awesome! Along with the rest of the album. You can really hear how important John Bonham was to the group. These speakers can get down and dirty, and rock. This album was suprisingly well recorded and produced, and transferred nicely to cd. Just goes to show a well produced and recorded album can sound good both on vinyl and cd. |
I have had my Tidal Piano Diaceras for about 2 months now and have accumulated around 400-450 hours of playing time. I am having great fun listening to them. I am not even going to try to describe or analyze what I am hearing. These are speakers best heard, not described. I will say this, these speakers are allowing me to appreciate music that I had not before. For example, I had never really appreciated the harpsichord. But I dusted off some Bach harpsichord concerto discs and gave them a listen. The Piano Diaceras allow me to hear what I had been missing. The intricacies of the music and the interplay between the harpsichord and the orchestra are laid out in detail and can be easily heard. I am now listening to several discs, with much greater insight and appreciation of the music, that before just collected dust. I am having great fun, indeed! The Piano lines, with their small footprint, are ideal for medium to smallish size listening areas. And with the Variogain technology they are easily adaptable for all manner of listening areas. Condo and apartment dwellers should seriously consider the Piano line of speakers. In addition, you will not miss a single musical note when playing at low volume. Finally, took awhile to get the toe-in right. I initially started with much toe-in but now I have very little resulting in a better distributed sound stage. |
In the past week I have seen performances by the Boston Symphony Orchestra of Dvorak's Cello Concerto and Brahm's Piano Concerto #2. I have recordings of both and now when I listen to each of them the Piano Diacera's virtually put me back in Boston Symphony Hall. It is uncanny the realism I hear when playing these recordings and I am ecstatic. |
Well boys and girls it looks like Tidal is coming out with a new speaker. After this link go to News & Press link. http://www.tidal-audio.com/english/startenglish.htm |
I have had my Piano Diacera's for a little over 6 months and have well over a thousand hours on them. I can say unequivocally that I adore these speakers. They have essentially changed my taste in music. Because of the Piano Diacera's I am totally enamored with classical music. Solo's to symphonies, baroque to modern eras, I cannot get enough. |
Colo-colo, Congratulations on your Contriva purchase. I do not have the Contriva's but I do not see a problem with the Classe amps. Of course good upstream components and good cabling helps. You also mentioned something about Vitus. A highly thought of audio company. I am guessing the Contriva's would love those amps. I am sure some Contriva owners will weigh in. Johngp, Loving my Piano Diacera's. If I had to list one thing that impresses me the most about these speakers it would be overall presentation. These speakers definitely do not lose the forest for the trees. Sure, they do an excellent job in all those areas people obsess about, i.e., imaging, detail, tonality, prat, etc. You can easily focus in on each of these areas for a short time but you are inexorably drawn back to the overall presentation of the music, the same experience as listening to live music. When listening to live music no one focuses in on, for example, detail or imaging because they know it is there automatically. Same with the Piano Diacera's. Just a quick impression on the fly. |
Tidal's new speakers: http://www.tidal-audio.de/download/Agoria-2012.htm Stunning! Make sure to check out pdf download. |
If you page down on the following link you will see a good picture of what appears to be the Piano Diaceras with the new Xtenders. http://www.avguide.com/blog/munich-2012-part-2-electronics Always interesting to see how TAS covers the Tidal speakers at shows. In this case the Constellation amps sound excellent but no mention of the speakers through which they heard this sound. |
Guess I have to step back a little regarding how TAS covers Tidal. On this link Jonathan Valin actually says something nice, though a little left handed, about the Piano Diaceras. http://www.avguide.com/blog/jv-reports-the-munich-high-end-show-2012-updated-addendum?page=4 |
IMHO there are far too many in the audio community, along with recording artists and studios, that are obsessed with bass. With that being said I would definitely get the X-tender subs if I had the space. Do I believe they are essential? No, but rounding out the bottom end would not be a bad thing either. I will add that I am totally happy with my Piano Diaceras as they are and won't think twice as to whether I am missing anything by not having the X-tenders. Regarding aesthetics I would think the additional subs would probably work nicely in a dedicated listening venue. |
The following link is a review of the Marten Coltrane 2 loudspeaker. I found the first three paragraphs very interesting because the reviewer speaks about the importance of properly running in new ceramic drivers. I can say from my own experience with the Piano Diaceras that the more hours I have on them the better they sound. I thought they sounded great right out of the box but what I am hearing now goes far beyond what my expectations were or even what I could have dreamed possible. Also, I found interesting the first sentence in the second paragraph on page two. http://www.avguide.com/review/marten-coltrane-2-floorstanding-loudspeaker-hi-fi-90 |
Nice comments from Mr. Atkinson of Stereophile at the Capital Audiofest about The Voice That Is and Tidal. Page down about half way. http://www.stereophile.com/content/capital-audiofest151day-two-early-afternoon |
Jotave2010 and Georgemg, Impressive gear driving your respective Pianos. Looking forward to your future posts as your Pianos evolve. I believe we all would very much like to see photos of your rigs. In my own case I now have well over 2000 hours (no longer keeping track) on my Piano Diaceras and I can unequivocally say that I love these speakers far more than when I first received them. |
I think of the Piano Diaceras as mini Sunrays and with the X-Tenders as mini T-1's. If I were to get the X-Tenders, which I am not, I would prefer flat black portals versus the shiny stainless steel. I like the all black monolithic look. "even better than the TIDAL Contriva Diacera"...I think that is up to the ears of the individual listener. |
Tidal coming out with a bunch of new products. The two that caught my interest are the Akira speakers (Piano Diacera replacements?) and the Assoluta Monoblock amps. The Akira's stand 4.5 feet high for medium to small listening areas. Don't know footprint size. The descriptor on the Tidal website seems to indicate (and I might be totally incorrect) that the new mono-blocks will be switching amps, otherwise known for the forbidden term in highend as Class D. I currently use Spectron mono-blocks and would very much like to hear how these new Tidal amps sound. Their price, though, will probably be more than I can bear. |
Maceear, Linkster was able to listen to my Piano Diacera's which helped him determine whether he wanted to go through the cost and hassle of upgrading. You need to do the same. Upgrading is not cheap, the packing and shipping is a hassle, and it takes 4-5 months to get them back. Make sure you know what you are getting with your own ears before you go through all of that. Even the cost of a plane ticket might be prudent. |