tomthiel
Thank You for the update on Mr. Rob Gillum. I would like to read more about Walter Kling. Is he alive and involved in Audio? Retired?
I hope that you are well and ready for Thanksgiving next week.
Happy Listening!
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
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silvanik - surrounds are very critical on tweeters. I don't remember whether those are rubber or a synthetic elastomer, but stiffening could be an issue. Your REW measurements shouuld tell you quite a bit, especially via FFTransforms to give you time domain information. If you can get higher than 20K, do it, since that tweeter goes to 28K and then some and that ultrasonic range might yield hints. That UltraTweeter was used in the 2.2, 3.6 and 5. Madisound has the companion fiber moving kit, which is said to drop in without XO changes. Birger Jorgensen of Vifa, who codesigned that with Jim, took great care for the fiber and metal domes to behave as similarly as possible. One of these days there will be a replacement, but that motor will house the fiber dome if you need one sooner. Tom
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Talking about 3.6's tweeter, recently I had a look to the ferro fluid status because it seems to my to hear a bit reduced high frequencies level (xover checked, all ok) and found not dried up and with a normal consistency, very fluid. What in your opinion can be the cause? Perhaps the stiffening of the dome rubber suspension after many years? They were made in 1998, dont know how long they can last delivering nominal performance. |
Tom, thank you so much for your reassuring words about Rob and his business.I was a bit surprised for his silence, actually I always found Rob to be very kind and responsive during our emails exchange before my last spare drivers purchase and giving a lot of suggestions about how to check the drivers and xover conditions, thus now i was wondering whether something news was in the air. No problem, I can wait, but guess that the drivers availability for the 3.6s start to be critics, especially for the tweeters and my idea is to purchase two more of them to stay relaxed for some years to come. |
Silvanik - don’t take it personally, I likewise am getting dead air. But, I have a report that Rob is alive and well and will soon be back in the saddle. You might like the back story. Lexington is a medium sized city on a limestone savanah. Going east the Bluegrass Savanah gets rough and hilly toward the Cumberland Plateau, the western foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. Several years ago Rob bought an old hill farm in the knobs with a hunting cabin where he spends his private. It's now deer hunding season in Kentucky, and Jeremy reports that Rob is off hunting quite a bit lately. Jeremy is the son of Walter Kling, who co-founded Thiel Audio, was part of the communal undertakings in the beginning as well as my replacement in the later years. Jeremy grew up in the company and worked there on and off including juggling alligators at the bitter end. Jeremy says that Rob is alive and well and he’ll let him know that we’re looking for him. Take care. |
Tony's system is beautiful with a pair of CS 6, congrats to him. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9188
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Yes that’s a sort of typical combo people try when they attempt to get the best of both worlds, tubes and solid state.
And it makes some sense. You may have a speaker that just works best with a solid state amp driving it, but want to add a bit of tube sweetness on to that, so you add a tube preamp.
For me though it doesn’t really work in practice, for my particular taste. I really am a tube amp guy, and I find that it’s the amplifiers more than the pre-amps that really impart the tube characteristics most. Since I find my conrad johnson premier 12s drive my Thiels really well, I have no need to change my amp.
However, when I borrowed my friends Bryston 4B3 amp for a while I certainly heard some intriguing things the SS amp brought to the party - even more over-all precision, grip in the bass, solidity and clarity of transients, slightly lower distortion.
However overall I found the sound a bit too stiff, mechanical, edgy and hard, even with my very tubey CJ Premier 16SL2 preamp. I ultimately preferred my premier 12s over the Bryston for the more organic, rich, filled out and spacious sound, while maintaining good punch and drive.
However to see if I can get a bit more of "best of both worlds" I’ve been experimenting in using my Benchmark DAC 2L as a pre-amp. It’s a DAC but also has a fully functioning pre-amp stage (all analog signal). It generally sounded fantastic and close to a "best of both worlds." There was a greater sense of clean, clear sound, transients tighted up, bass tighted up somewhat, sounded really "accurate" yet it also maintained the essential sonic signature of the tube amps driving the speakers - big, meaty, rich, organic, spacious.
So I’ve just purchased a second hand Benchmark LA4 pre-amp - you won’t get more lower distortion/neutral SS pre-amp than that! I hope to try it in my system in the next few days.
But in any case, my sense is that unlike the usual SS with tube preamp, it’s actually a tube amp with SS pre that gets closer to best of both worlds. IMO. |
I use the CODA #8 with the Thiel CS3,7. It was an amp that could drive the CS3.7 to it’s full potential with some degree of finesse. I have had some other amps on the CS3.7, such as the Benchmark AHB2 and a modified LSA Voyager 350 GAN, that both had a bit cleaner top end than the CODA #8. However, overall the #8 was the best on the Thiel. I also had the KRELL K-300i integrated on the Thiel CS3.7. It is also fantastic on this speaker. My room is not huge so the KRELL XD line stereo or mono would be better yet in a larger room. This XD stuff is CODA level quality, maybe smoother and more low end. I recently heard the CODA #16 with my preamp CODA 07x on Legacy speakers, at the dealer. The #16 had Benchmark AHB2 level clarity, #8 like power (likely more), and I would have expected it to be smoother than the #8. I did not listen long enough to pay attention to that. The best amp I have heard. It is on my upgrade wish list. Today, I moved my Benchmark LA4 preamp back in to the office to have it easiy flipped over to the CODA #8. I normally use the CODA 07x preamp but I sometimes miss the pure silence of the LA4 and the increased detail. It is very easy for me to change the 15 foot Benchmark XLR cables I have from the LA4 and 07x into the CODA #8.
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@ydjames A lot of Thiel owners use Tube linestage to have a more musical presentation and less glare. I will probably go separates in the near future with a tube linestage and Class A SS amp. As of now i have to find better cabling to suit my 3.7s. |
As an example, my Thiel CS 3.7 serial numbers are 87 and 88. I don't know how many pairs were sold in total, but obviously it was one of the earliest sets built (I had 7.2s before that). I have a couple of pairs of old SCS2s (for side and back surrounds in my integrated AV system) and the serial numbers are worn off from those. I also have an MCS1 center channel and a pair of the original Power Points for front height channels. I bought one pair of the SCS2s used (the customer of the store died and they were too beat up for them to take in trade so I stripped off the beat up black ash and painted them the color of the walls. At one point in the old house, I had that pair of SCS2s hung on the wall (with Ominmounts) as left and right channels in the bedroom. I've also owned 2.3s and when my friend worked in the stereo store for about 6 years I help deliver and set-up a bunch of different pairs (mainly 1.6s and 1.7s and 2.3s and 2.4s). When I decided to upgrade my 2.3s, I was on a business trip in the Palo Alto, CA area and was fortunate a dealer there had all the Thiel models on the floor and they were gracious enough to let me spend time comparing the 6s and 7.2s for quite a while so I could make up my mind. |
Stating serial numbers helps in reconstructing the flow of events. I left Thiel in 1995 and am playing catch-up with changes of various sorts. Of particular interest is that crossover manufacture was taken to Asia (with considerable care) and some performance changes. Over these past few years here on this forum, I've been able to piece together a picture of what happened when with what performance consequences. Thiel's Chinese crossovers used components that were cloned from the long-term "western" components. The layouts also migrated from point to point on masonite to high-quality fiberglas. My bottom line is that I prefer, subjectively supported with inferences from measurements, the original made in Lexington boards. But the Chinese equivalents are quite good - with some exceptions: we've found Chinese crossovers with downright sloppy coils that were audibly inferior when directly compared to Thiel's AcoustaCoil / ERSE coils, which I consider best of form. This sleuthing would not be necessary if the New Thiel owners had honored and kept the extensive body of records that we kept from day 1. On the bright side, our view of Thiel history is gradually coming into focus. |
Serial numbers are usually produced in order at a factory. Sometimes, there are changes in the build (e.g. crossover components) over time. Having consecutive serial numbers is typically an indication that the items were produced at the same time and assuming it is a brand that cares about quality control, one should be good to go. |
I've been popping by the forum every now and then to catch up on the conversations. I am humbled that I am learning more about Thiel's heritage as well as complex topics related to speaker designs. I do appreciate everyone's intellectual inputs.
Btw if I may ask - is there a reason for sharing the serial numbers? |
Well, most of the music I listen to... do not have glare in the treble, while I admit there is a handful of recordings that exhibit glare, which I openly welcome. After all, I find Thiel Coaxials to be transparent and truthful to the music. It doesn’t mask or mitigate any shortcomings in the recording or other components in the system.
I recall there are some people who prefer matching Thiel 2.7 & 3.7 with amps to tame the glare, or i’d like to describe, "shooting lasers at you! pew pew pew". I think one of the "best" matching amps in those days were Classe.
On the other hand, I do not recall Tellurium Q Ultra Silver having silver conductors or traces of it... but then again we will never know because Geoff (Boss of Tellurium Q) did not reveal what is inside his cables. |
@ydjames Thanks for sharing mate, since you have the same COAX as me don't you have any glare in the trebel region since you have silver in your Tellurium Q cables ? The Statement are copper only therefore they should be very smooth and musical. Usually the 2.7s and 3.7s COAX are pretty allergic to silver cabling.
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So true. And for good reason. Today I pulled out three new pairs of Cardas ICs I had bought and stored earlier this year for a secondary system I planned to build - that wont happen now. Just for grins, I removed the Analysis Plus OCC Crystal interconnects out of the main KT150 tube system, and installed the Cardas Golden Reference IC cables. These are from a new rerun batch Cardas did earlier this year. While not settled in yet, during a first listening session, it appears I had simply forgotten how nice and engaging they can sound. Gonna keep them in the system on rotation for at least the next 2-3 weeks, maybe longer. 👍
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Hey mate, I use the Tellurium Q Ultra Silver 2 metres pair speaker cable as well as Tellurium Q Ultra Silver XLR between my T+A DAC 8 DSD, Benchmark LA4, and Benchmark AHB2 Mono.
I have tried quite a handful of cable brands (a mix of Japanese and American brands mostly), and I found that Tellurium Q cables happen to match my Thiel CS2.7 and room very well. What I do like most about Tellurium Q is the "musical flow" that brings to the music, and somewhat sounded "right" to my ears.
I am guessing that you might be pleasantly surprised with the sonic signature and performance of the Tellurium Q Statement cables that your dealer have kindly loaned you. |
Hey all, have been following this thread for awhile and figured I'd introduce myself. I was looking for new speakers about 6 months ago and someone 5 min away had some thiel 3.6 for sale. Wasn't sure that was really looking for but figured I'd give them a shot and just wow. So I bought 2478/2477 from the original owner. He took care of them really well I don't think there is a scratch on them. He said he did have the tweeters replaced about 10 years ago. I'm powering them with a classe ca-400 wich doesn't seem to have any problems with them. The thiels came with all the promotional stuff you get when you bought them so I figured I'd share. |
I don't know if you guys have heard of this speaker cable brand : https://silversmithaudio.com/fidelium-1/ Would be worth giving them a try. |
Jafant they match up nicely and do much of the same thing even though the PAD's use diferent metals and SW is all copper. They are both very balanced, meaning no frequency is left behind or emphasized. They just get out of the way.
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