pablohoney - nice rack.
Regarding color, Maple does darken with time. Exposure to UV is the key. There are UV lamps. Sunlight has tons more than any bulb. Good work.
We're in the same place with 7.2s. I bought a pair awhile back, but haven't fired it up yet (lots of reasons). I did hear a pair at Rob's a few years ago. Extremely good. Also, the company line is that Jim considered the 3.7 to be 'better' and therefore discontinued the 7.2, etc. In fact the 3.7 breaks new ground and is the statement of his art. However, the 7.2 is not a lesser speaker. Those speakers were phased out to simplify the operation to give it some chance of surviving his death. I'll be interested in hearing your comparison between your 3.6 and 7.2 when that happens.
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You deserve my best congrats on your beautiful job, your Birdseye Maple looks amazing, well done, really well done👏
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thank you!... yeah! It will be really the longest weeks after the marriage 😂, can’t wait to compare them to 3.6’s in my system, in my room, actually never listened to 7.2 but in someway I know that it will be not a jump in the dark, have big expectations from this old but piece of state of art from our missed genius. Also curious to see how my two main amplifiers perform with them, the McCormack DNA-2 and the Crown I-Tech9000HD (...do not laugh, it’s a serious pro amplifier that I witness to put to shame many blasoned high end tanks)
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silvanik-
Congrats on your purchase, going to be a long two weeks!
When I was looking for a pair to replace my 3.5’s the 3.7’s and 7.2’s were both at the top of my list. Came across a pair of 3.7’s first that were nearby. I absolutely love the 3.7’s, but the 7.2’s maintain that classic Thiel aesthetic.
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Hi all fellow Thiel enthusiasts,
few days ago I found a beautiful pair of 7.2 at fair price in a shop not far from my living place, they are perfect both aesthetically and sonically. Today I managed to get an agreement with the shop to trade some hi-fi components no longer used in my systems in addition to some cash and finalized the purchase. In two weeks the dealer will come to deliver the new babies, can't wait!
Of course my loved 3.6s will stay with me.
Happy to share this with you.
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tomthiel -
I finished up my turntable stand and am so happy with the results. I used Sherwin Williams SHER-WOOD Precat Lacquer over shellac just as you suggested. I just love the finish and the depth it gives to the Birdseye Maple, such beautiful wood. It is a bit lighter than the speakers, but fully expected that. I believe time will darken it.
I posted a picture in my virtual system page. The depth in the Birdseye maple is difficult to capture in a photograph.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!
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prof
Good to see you here as always. Yes, I am at a place where I can stand pat for awhile. Not to worry, I will continue to audition/test Cables/Cords, as this is my niche' of our wonderful Hobby.
Happy Listening!
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Absolutely! Never Rush Perfection. The Audio Journey is a marathon. .
Written by someone who has truly lived that philosophy :-)
Enjoying listening to the Thiels by now, I hope?
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duramax747
Absolutely! Never Rush Perfection. The Audio Journey is a marathon. Life happens along the run.
Happy Listening!
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Room is slow going as I do as much as I can each day with my heavy work schedule. I feel it will deliver the goods when completed.
With Thiel's most users make the mistake of not having the proper sized room or setting them too close to the walls.
My primary goals are;
1. Proper sized room and design
2. Correct placement of speakers
3. Power. (dedicated panel with iso transformers, copper breakers/bus bar, over sized twisted wire, dedicated outlets.
You will spend less on gear if these are right.
Now I'm not opposed to nice gear in addition to the above either.
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As above, duramax747 is here to remind Us that Panel members can never own too many pairs of Thiel Audio speakers.
Happy Listening!
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duramax747
Outstanding! I look forward to the completed room and your Virtual Systems page showcasing all of those wonderful Thiel loudspeakers!
Happy Listening!
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jafant,
You are not mistaken. I own a white pair of CS 2.7. I also have a pair of CS6 in Zebrawood and a pair of CS 2.4SE.
With the room being built the big Thiels will be getting most of the attention. With that said it will be relatively easy to swap out speakers with any of the others as placement would be fairly close to where the previous pair were.
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The last couple of weeks I've been playing around with a Polk Audio PSW650 subwoofer with stereo 10" drivers . This was offered as a gift and so I tried to like it. But it just didn't wow me unless I was listening to Pink Floyd or Emerson , Lake and Palmer and surprisingly to Rickie Lee Jones " Pop Pop " . When I listened to other artist or genres It just didn't blend in . I had it set to 40hz the lowest setting and just audible enough not to be louder than the Thiels , while it added a little to the music the suddenness of the sub just became distracting , maybe if subs came in gradually like a speaker crossover controlled blending .
But when turning the sub off and on again I was able to hear just how low and powerful the 2.7s sounded considering the size of the woofer . The sound went down to the 35hz but even with the bass heavy music of the above artist the last 5-10 hz started to fade or get softer . If I turn the volume up the fading lessons but then it's to loud unless nobody else is at home . I am wondering if an amp that doubles its output from 8 to 4 then again to 2 ohms would that keep the volume level from falling at the bottom end ?
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duramax747
Very nice. I was thinking that you owned a pair of CS 2.7 speakers?
I like those selections for your Front end.
Happy Listening!
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jafant,
Right now I have two pairs of CS5i in dark walnut and Brazilian rosewood. Also I have CS 7.2 in cherry. They will occupy the new listening room in rotation of course.
I miss that bottom end the big Thiel's bring to the table.
I'm working on my front end with Dacs.
I have a Esoteric K-01XD all in one player. A highly modified Wadia 521 from the design gurus that were there before they sold company, A Bricasti M1 Series II, and ordering a Audio Note DAC 4.1x Balanced Signature.
Wadia/Thiels work incredibly well together.
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duramax747
That's the Spirit. Which model(s) of Thiel speakers are currently in your collection?
Happy Listening!
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Ironically, it seems like I have a track record of logging in more work hours during this holiday weekend.
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tomthiel
Thank you for your attention to detail and hard work. I hope that you are well as we enter Labor Day weekend. Another Summer is drawing to a close.
Happy Listening!
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catalysis - I totally agree about Benchmark. I run a full BM setup and couldn't be happier. Some folks quibble about BM's lack of lower harmonic distortion. BM intentionally practically eliminates it, while many users like the added 'warmth' and 'fullness' that the HD adds to the signal. I agree that Jim would have loved this gear. It brings truth without costing a fortune.
To your question about progress and kits. The question is valid and the answer is complex. I am working every day on upgrades, and making real progress. A somewhat unexpected twist (which should have been obvious) is that Jim's mastery of value engineering was phenomenal. It takes quite a bit of money to break through to a higher performance/cost level, which turns the idea of upgrading on its head.
Several folks here have upgraded their speakers, and all have been satisfied . . . at considerable cost - which was OEM special buy with no mark-up. Looking at real costs with overhead, the cost/performance equation gets murky. Other interesting developments include that every (?) rebuilder chose to use 'better' internal wire - and were pleased. I have tested all of those wires and plenty more. I am not satisfied with any of them as preserving the unaltered, pure signal. So, i went down a very deep and wide rabbit hole. The result is a proprietary wiring harness that breaks new ground and settles some subtle but persistent sonic issues.
There are other solutions being brought to bear. Analog layout, field effects, thermal management and wavelaunch propagation are all being advanced. All in, I am achieving up to 20dB lower harmonic distortion and other background 'noise' (collectively referred to as 'computational irreducibles') caused by dynamic interactions in the complex speaker system. There really is too much to itemize and summarize, and much of the work is proprietary. I can assure you that we will achieve significant performance improvements while changing nothing of Jim's work, and in fact extending his approach and methods toward qualitatively greater fidelity. Much like the Benhmark gear sounds so good by getting it so right.
The vision has shifted from 'upgrade kits' toward development of novel technologies which do 'it' better for less. The goal is to offer these technologies and finance driver redevelopment and improvements - for a very long life horizon for these heirloom speakers. This autumn I plan to exhibit these technologies to a group of invited guests in a purpose-built playback room, and court more team formation.
FWIW: I'm picking up a pair of CS5i on this trip. I now have 5 pairs of CS3/3.5s. I'm concentrating on early / older models because their drivers are unavailable and aging. Their replacements will be a new iteration of the UltraTweeter (used in the CS5, 3.6 and 2.2) along with a new iteration of the CS3.6 midrange to retrofit into the CS3/3.5. We have a good working relationship with ScanSpeak which has all the working drawings from our development partnership with them. The equalizer has been expertly and impressively upgraded, but the finalization of that job was on Bill Thalmann's plate as he succumbed to illness. We're scouting another electronics designer for that project. The workhorse model shared with my collaborators is the SCS4. If any of you want a Small Coherent Bookshelf / Monitor, that will be the first speaker to be available at various upgrade levels. I am truly encouraged by our improvements.
I recognize that you all expected more progress sooner. I'm playing the hand I'm dealt the best I can. Progress is slow, but I am encouraged by the results to date.
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duramax747
I want to say that there are a couple of CS5 /5i fans and owners on The Panel.
Happy Listening!
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jon_5912
Nice catch! Happy Listening!
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catalysis
Good to see you here again. Tom is working diligently on upgrade Packages. Stay tuned and enjoy the Music.
Happy Listening!
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usaltus
Welcome! Good to see you here. You will feel quite at home with the other CJ and Thiel Audio fans and owners on The Panel. I am a big fan of the 350SA power amp via Conrad Johnson. Nice to see it matched with the CS5 loudspeaker.
What other gear including Cabling rounds out your System-Urban?
Happy Listening!
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Hi Everyone,
It’s been a good while since I checked in on this wonderful thread, but I do try to keep up with posts pretty much every week.
I’ll update on my fairly recent changes to the setup around my 3.5s, but I firstly want to thank everyone for their continued contributions here, demonstrating the love we all have for this brand of brands and for Jim’s peerless work.
I’ve owned my 3.5s now for just over 7 years. They were the cherished pair of a most careful owner, sold by his family after he passed. They were especially keen to find a buyer who would love and care for them just the same and every once in a great while I reconnect with them to let them know that these are still my favorite speakers in my little stable, which also includes Quad 57s and Celestion Kingstons.
About a year ago we moved from Utah to Minnesota and I was finally able to indulge in an amplification change from tubes that I’d been planning for some time - the Benchmark LA4 (pre) and AHB2 (power) combo.
This substantially consolidated what we all know to be true in that the 3.5s, and Thiels in general, respond magnificently to better, not necessarily hugely powerful, amplification.
The Benchmark pairing are rightly considered to be about the last word in accurate measuring amplification and have so elevated my 3.5s. The soundstage has improved in all dimensions and the imaging and indeed musicality are so convincing and precise that I only wish Jim had been around to try the LA4 and AHB2 with his designs, as I think he would have loved the result.
Cabling has changed too. Benchmark sells its own star Quad based cables, which work fine until you try something better. In my case this was Audioquest King Cobra interconnects throughout the system and Nordost Ax Angel speaker cable, which not only sounds sensational but is thin and therefore incredibly easy to install in the unusual speaker input position on the underside of the 3.5s.
This combo, together with digital source and turntable upgrades, achieves a sound that is still more than "current" - a testament to Jim’s brilliance and Thiel’s outstanding manufacturing skills. Remarkable for a speaker designed in, when?, the mid 80s I assume - hopefully Tom can confirm the precise timeline.
And speaking of Tom, even though I try to keep up with the thread, I’m a little bit blurry on where things are with the upgrade packages he has been working on with Rob. I’m very keen to know where things are at as a 3.5 upgrade kit is very much on my horizon, albeit that I might buy it and wait for something to break on the current pair before installation. There’s something magical about having a speaker as the designer originally intended it, though I’m certain that Tom and Rob won’t release a kit until they know it offers something even more special.
Anyway that’s my update and I will of course be happy to answer any questions concerning the amplification etc and its application with the 3.5s.
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duramax747
My CS5s are Brazilian Rosewood.
Currently a Solid State Conrad Johnson Premier 350SA into 4 Ohms ~ 550 wpc
I am in Alexandria, Virginia now visiting Conrad Johnson discussing several system topics.
Keith and Jeff are not as concerned about the CS5s as are others but they do make Great amplifiers.
So they have convinced me that I owe it to myself to power the CS5s with my MV751A revised to current technology their best CJ capacitors hand modified by Jeff personally. Jeff is pretty darn happy with how they came out sounding. So bridged in Mono are very conservatively rated at ~150 wpc each.
You really do have to keep your ears open for any audible clipping and adjust accordingly, immediately!
But this is always the case, nothing new, when you get a new Organ or Drum recording you really need to familiarize yourself with the entire work at a modest level to help you make a max preamp gain setting.
I have gotten carried away listening to organ recordings and damaged speaker drivers, just ask Rob at rob@coherentsourceservice.com he always helps me get everything back on track and perfect !
I also have Thiel CS3.7 s and CS3.5 s with active base Equalizer ( my very first Thiels ~1983 )
So the very beginning of a long conversation. This reply has taken longer that it should have because I am more verbal, conversation oriented than a typing word type of guy. I would enjoy chatting with you about our hobby and Love of Thiel loudspeakers. I can be reached at 802 999-1506 iPhone.
Enjoy, Urban
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usaltus,
If you mentioned this in this thread already please excuse me for asking if already stated.
What amp(s) are you using to run these power hungry speakers?
Have you compared the CS5 to any other Thiel speakers?
I ask as I like to see if other users have the same experience/opinion(s) as myself.
Finally what finish do you have?
Thanks
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Out of curiosity how many in this discussion have Thiel CS5i?
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While I think -3dB @ 23 Hz might be suspect; the reported 35 Hz is spec’s @ 2.5 dB.
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solobone22 - isn't it lovely when you dial in your speakers to the room?
I've never used any sub except Thiel's with the matching Passive XO. I learned a few things. The 'normal' input engages the room boundary circuitry, whereas (I think) the LFE does not. That boundary interface is magic. The bottom end of the 2 series is 4th order reflex, which is optimal for matching a 4th order low-pass / high cut on the sub. The 2.7's -3dB point is stated as 23Hz (can that be true?).
I'm speculating here, but since there is so little musical energy below 30Hz, I wonder how it might work with the 2.7 running free and the REL selected for as low as you can, even if above the speaker low limit.
I do hope that folks with greater sub knowledge and experience check in. You can use REW to graph the actual system output from 0 Hz. So at least you won't get lost.
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Aloha All!
Finally FINALLY!!! got my 2.7's coupled to the room properly and am now looking at room treatments and the 30-20Hz range.
I see a few folks using REL subs. The low point for the crossover is 30Hz for the models that I have looked at. In my experience that isn't low enough for my room/speakers.
I don't want to crossover the Thiels I want to extend them to 20Hz.
At this point it looks like something like REW and MiniDSP to a sub using the LFE input is the best option.
Anyone tried this approach with the 2 Series Thiels?
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jazzman7
Nice catch! Happy Listening!
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FWIW: These serial numbers place this pair in Lexington-Thiel production with USA AcoustaCoil coils, best-spec wire, and Solen polypropylene caps, on point to point masonite boards. We have seen that later Chinese production had lower spec parts including polyester caps on PC boards and variable coil quality. If you want a pair, this one would be a good one to get.
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tomthiel
My pleasure to connect you guys. From 2000-2010, was a magical decade for CD/SACD player owners to enjoy upgrading their wares by the likes of, Bill Thalmann, Dan Modwright, Matt Anker, Steve McCormack, Warren Gregorie.
I am sure that there are 1 or 2 others missing from my list. Sadly, Audiophiles are down to Modwright. Conrad Johnson nor McCormack is not planning to build another player anytime soon. The others are no longer involved in Audio modifications to my knowledge. Thank goodness we still have the DIY guys aside from those once large Operations.
Happy Listening!
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Bill exemplifies a dying breed - someone who knows musical technologies with fluency coupled to the requirements of the musical arts. He will be missed, and I don't know if he'll be replaced.
Bill has had the Thiel CS3 / 3.5 equalizer in his backlog, but alas, has run out of time to address it. But he did do his last Oppo 105 Music Technologies upgrade for me. It is wonderful and serves as my CD and SACD source at considerably higher level than either the stock Sony 9000ES or SCD-1 from Thiel Audio's sale.
I had met Bill in the way-back days when he was the manufacturing director of Conrad Johnson in their first two decades. But we lost touch on my hiatus from audio land. I really appreciate you recommending him to me; we have had a few years of enjoyable, productive interactions. I wish it could go on - All things must pass.
I highly recommend anything with Bill's signature on it.
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ALL
over on U.S. Audiomart there is a Sony ES SCD-1 player modded by the one and only Mr. Bill Thalmann. A wonderful opportunity to own a Classic by a true Gentleman of Audio. Located in Farmington CT. By the end of this month, Mr. Thalmann will be Retired. May he enjoy his Golden years.
Happy Listening!
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jon_5912
I agree. The Viewpoints do engage quite nicely in a near-field setting. I rather enjoy NPR Tiny Desk concert series as well.
Happy Listening!
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