Thiel Owners

JAFant - you asked about future models in the queue. I have concentrated my efforts on the 2.2. Next I will address the 3/ 3.5. My priorities include rescuing models in danger of obsolescence, and the 3/ 3.5 are geriatric. It will be a big challenge in that the tweeter and midrange are no longer available. But the woofers are strong players and built like tanks. Of great interest to me is the textbook sealed second order low rolloff - tight, quick, clean and musical. I hope to pair that with a matching subwoofer for seriously good low bass.

Jon - the house photo you shared is in Georgetown proper. Our farm was (and still is) halfway between Lexington and Georgetown where they subdivided the farms into 10 acre farmlets around 1900. The farm victorian was built in 1903 and was quite deteriorated when I bought it and over the years restored it to fine fettle. Good place. Horses were my first love, and I bred my daughter's salt-of-the-earth pony to a son of Secretariat for her Pony Club mount. Wildfire spent his lift there, and it spawned an upstart audio company. There's always more back story.

I'm up in Berlin. Half way between Hartford and New Haven.  Live on a pretty lake.  As for meeting him, I can't remember, but it was eon's ago.  I know it was twice as those were the only times he was up here from what I had been told.  Heck, I know I met Paul Klipsch as well as David Hafler and a few other top designers back in the very early 70's.  The store in Newington was a very well known one back in the day.  It's how I learned about audio.  Dad, who didn't make a lot, took me there nad we came home with a modest system of a Pioneer receiver, house made 3 way speakers (that were very good and how stores sold back in the day) and a Garrard TT.  I bought my own system in '73 with Bar Mitzvah money.  Yamaha YP 211 TT with the top Grado cartridge (Grado was in the store when I made my upgrade from the Garrard that came with it and told them to throw in the cartridge.  As most know, those all cost them about the same to make and they had a major uncharge.). I too had the same speakers as Dad had.  I rocked out with my drums in the basement while mom complained, lol.  

Joe, the owner was a named big band director and most of the audio elite would come visit him and he would always let me know who and when.  That's why I got to go in the basement and listen to the whole Klipsch line with the Phase Linear and Crown gear with top TT's, but I don't even remember which ones, lol.  I got a few of my HS buddy's to purchase systems through Joe's place, even though we had the shlock shops too.  Most got the baby Klipsch's (forget the name but they are in the classic line) with their larger Yamaha receivers.  Sorry to for the history, lol.  I've loved this hobby and the people in it for most of my life.  

I think it's why I get jaded at times and why I am always open to auditions to keep learning.  I know it's hard to believe, but I didn't love Vandersteen's until about 10 years ago when I went to the closest dealer in NJ to buy a new set of Pro Ac's D series and walk out of their knowing I was going to purchase a pair of Treo's once I saved enough.  I didn't even want to audition them, which was unlike me, but I was there with family as my cousin was getting married and he lives in Verona.  

Theil and Vandersteen's are so much alike, but sound so different.  I think it's the time alignment etc.. that my ears really appreciate hearing.  Both designers to me, are as important to audio as anyone else.

ctsooner

which city/town in CT are you located?

Happy Listening!

oblgny

My pleasure. I have been in worse circumstances and places during military service. Still, this is my occupation/profession.
The hope is that you guys will catch a break for the rest of 2020.
If not, the Cavalry,  will mobilize again to assist. The locals really support this hospital- no question about it. Strong Work!

Good to read that you are enjoying the Belles integrated.
Will it reach a sonic match for the 3.5 (your fave Thiel speaker)?

Happy Listening!

ctsooner

Thank You for sharing your meet-and-greet with Jim Thiel.
What were the circumstances? CES? Audio Show?
What year?

Happy Listening!

obglny

Always good to see you here my Brother. Yes, this little section of the Long Island City has been very kind to us.  Slowly but surely the local bars and eateries are opening, certainly during lunch hour into the early evening.  Not sure about late evening?

Agreed, I was informed about the shopping malls- makes sense as L.I. has quite the real estate for it.

I will contact you very soon. Is Audio Den open for auditions?

Happy Listening!

Tom Tweak - these leads are new to me, and fascinating. They are working with ideas like mine, mine being those of an interested, intuitive amateur. So, what can you tell us about your 'energy room'? Sounds fascinating.
Tom T

In case anyone is interested, today TMR has listed an amberwood pair of Thiel CS 2.2s.  Asking $1199 ... Condition 8 out of 10.

https://tmraudio.com/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/thiel-cs-2-2-floorstanding-speakers-amberwood-pair-2-2/

Didn't know you guys were islanders.  I'm up in CT. Would love to meet up when things clear up, lol.  I've never really been to Long Island other than Fischers island via boats and JFK, lol.

I usually dislike the NYC dealers as everyone has been kind of a dick to me.  

My buddy Johnny Rutan (Audio Connection) sells the Belles.  I love the line.  The new Aries Integrated is one of the great buys in all of audio.  David knows what he's doing.  I can easily see an amp like that on a Theil.  That would be a good match I assume.

Jafant...


You’re pretty much smack dab in the heart of central
Nassau County’s major shopping district.  Back in the day, within walking distance of where you’re working, there was Audio Exchange in the mall, a Crazy Eddie about three miles east of you, and a Rabson’s Audio as well if I’m not mistaken. 


And by the way, thanks for helping us “Lawnguylanders” out in the thick of all this. Much appreciated.  (The quotes kind of lend you some idea of how some of us speak. Or tawk, in case you haven’t put your finger on it.)


Under different circumstances you could easily walk to a couple of decent Portuguese restaurants nearby that I’ve been to meself. There’s also any number of decent pubs within minutes of where you are. I grew up in Long Beach -about 10 or so miles south of your current location. 

NYC is a 30 minute train ride west from Mineola, but unfortunately all the audio stores ain’t open. Yet. Ain’t much open ‘round those parts or my parts, for that matter. 

I’ve been consuming the hours by drawing, and listening to Qobuz like it’s going outta business. One of the coolest things about Qobuz is diving deep into the labels. (Each release contains the label info and once you click you’re in the catalogue.)  Kind of a trip down memory lane for those of us who could tell that Capitol vinyl had those orange/yellow swirls in the center. While they are a few things to nitpick about a few quirks in Qobuz, it by far exceeds iTunes. It stacks up pretty damn well in comparison to Tidal as well. 

I still have the Belles 250i integrated...

Hi Jafant.  it's great to be posting a bit again.  Jim was a neat guy.  I was blessed to meet him a few times.  The local dealer was the biggest Theil fan.  he still owns a pair of the big ones.  I think he finally got rid of the new ones though.  They were a bit too hot for my ears in the 90's, but I realized later that was because they ran them with the wrong electronics.  I have heard them with the larger Mark Levinson mono's in the past and really enjoyed that.  They also looked nice.  Heck, I also liked the JSE sloped speakers back in the 90's too,  Hmmm. I own Vandy Quatro's that are nothing like a 'box' speaker cabinet either...trend????  ha 

jafant 

You’re right in the thick of “Lawnguyland” in case you’ve noticed some of the local inflections. If the circumstances were different you could easily pop into places serving some decent Portuguese fare - there’s a couple within walking distance of the hospital you’re working in that I’ve been to meself. 

And thanks for that, by the way. 

You’re also near to one of the island’s major shopping districts 

ctsooner

Good to see you again. Thank You for the kind words surrounding our thread.  It is never too late to convert on a pair of Thiel Audio loudspeakers.  Have fun in this hobby!

Happy Listening!

What an amazing thread guys.  Thanks to all who are posting such cool stuff.  I love to learn and am open minded (regardless of how I may come off when posting).

I have always loved CF and it's usage.  When Richard saw some walking sticks I own (I use a rollator for most of my walking), he noticed the same CF he uses for his drivers.  It's a very expensive and highly specialized CF that isn't as easy to use as most of the CF on the market.  

Materials matter as much as implementation.  Caps and inductors are next in line from what many designers have shared over the years.  Cool thread guys.  Thanks.

You can also read up and use the Bud Purvine EnABL method for which he was granted U.S. patent # 5,304,746..filed 1991. The Purvine patent originally described a method to reduce or eliminate standing waves now better described as transverse, or shear waves or a type called a Raleigh wave. The EnABL used for years by many online can be applied to both sides of a surface including those of a speaker box and a speaker cone . Shear waves have 2 polarities and can only travel thru solids or on solids. Their polarity will change direction when it meets another different conductive material or geometric boundary .This process repeats itself until there is no signal contained or there is no longer a conductive material. The shear waves generate an odd affect on boundary edges that join up and meet, almost seems to be a fluttering of energy that will wrap around the front of a baffle and carry over to a portion of the joining side. A corner in a glass house would be an extreme example of how a surface conducts sound vibrations. You can apply the EnABL method to drivers, cabinets, turntable platters ,walls and probably a race car..endless surfaces and materials. There are other methods available to reduce interfering energy on many different products. By doing so there sounds to be an increase of effiencey. Exactly as in the Debbie Miles patent she describes a method to reduce shear wave interference in the floor surface boundary of a string instrument. This method is easily heard as an increase in volume and power while at the same time reducing the amount of energy needed to make any given sound. Debbie likes to call this a reduction of interfering energy.

The shear waves travel in and on the materials, the air that lays against these solid materials vibrates and relates a character of sound to our ears, some could be described as dry or woody or glassey and tinny each depending on the material, its shape and boundary . All materials have a different shear velocity among other descriptions this is why lead sounds different than brass or glass, wood or beryllium. A reduction of a polarity of shear on and in a large surface in motion such as a room wall will improve laminar flow like we use in The Energy Room. We originally applied these same methods to our complete speaker system. As Debbie says that reduces interfering energy. Tom D.

We achieved natural laminar flow on some tricky bits of the 787.... I could tell ya how but if I told ya how, well.... you know the rest...,

two layer boards :-) but for a mod upgrade the point to point is an excellent choice.

Eric - you are most welcome to share your turbulent / laminar flow ideas if you wish, either here or via PM.

@tomthiel 
Um, was this for me, or is there another Eric in this thread?  I don't remember saying anything remotely related to fluid dynamics. :)

Best,
E

tomthiel

Long Island,  will be open for business very soon. Health conditions are improving on  weekly basis. Not certain about the other 4 boroughs?

Happy Listening!

One interesting aspect of external crossovers, is that so many aspects in the cabinet are devoted to vibration management. Gluing the parts to the board impinges on thermal stability, but if left unglued, they rattle and buzz and introduce microphonics. Out of the box, that aspect is not a problem. Also, a major limit to directionality of coils is their position in the driver magnetic fields. That goes away too. And the heat thing is big; the enclosure keeps getting hotter, whereas the EXO self-cools. And two-sided boards become practical for isolation of resistors from caps. You get the picture.

SDL - I love the basement idea. But also, these EXOs will be in presentable cabinets of their own. I can’t help it, I was born that way.
Tomic - I have reverted to point to point on masonite - no printed circuits. When rebuilding Beetle’s 2.4s (late / Chinese, on PCBs) we noted coils with up to (perhaps) 20% variation from spec. Those changes were required to re-balance considering the capacitive coupling to the PCB traces. I prefer to keep the coupled capacitance separate from the inductance. I am also at greater liberty to manage the layout to avoid parallel leads and/or bring them to contact and twist to virtually eliminate self-capacitance.
I am loving the audition material selection. By randomizing it via the next album alphabetically, I have reduced the tendency to design for only the best audiophile material. I learn as much from ordinary or substandard cuts as I do from great cuts. However, anyone is welcome to send the Chesky catalog or other great stuff.
Eric - you are most welcome to share your turbulent / laminar flow ideas if you wish, either here or via PM. I have a setup that works, but might be significantly improved. I cover the baffle with F11 pure wool felt at 1/8 or 1/4", covered with the finest Ultrasuede Fine fabric. The drivers and bezels are covered with a stretchy version of USF. The US surface fibers are so fine as to be moved by the pressure - shear waves. The effect is lovely. I am now working with an aerospace engineer with a technology patent for surface flow dynamics management for spacecraft re-entry.
No end to the fun.

tomthiel,

Thanks for the interesting update. As an owner of a pair of 2.2s, I think this model represents a great place to start on the upgrade path.

The use of an external xo makes a lot of sense, both for practical and sonic reasons. My 2.2s are on a carpeted wood floor with an unfinished basement space below them. I could easily run an umbilical cord through the floor and place a xo box in the basement underneath each speaker. That would be very cool!

When you can, please continue to post upgrade updates for the xo, the cabinet bracing, and the vibration management efforts.

Keep up the impressive work!!!

Tom - thank you for mentioning the reference tracks you are using as well !!!! Music is after all the point !!!!

I would encourage isolation for the external filters and for Tom no wiring between input terminals and heavy curved traces on boards.

btw we did external filters on some KEF Kit Cantatas circa 1984 ish but also did aircore so were unable to understand impact of single variable change - needless to say those B-139 sang !!!

Tom so glad you have discovered your condition and are getting some relief, I find many carry a hidden burden - May yours be light or lighten - I know I am blessed with excellent care in a world where many have none.

Morning all :-) @jafant the ancient Labrador is a constant companion and music lover even while feigning sleep and disinterest. Yes maintaining three systems ( really 6 ) and not have them turn into museums is a challenge but one I greatly enjoy and TRY to learn something new each day !

Well, Tom, you have given me some ideas how to explore the difference between the active digital xo and the original passive xo of the 3.5. I'll keep the original xo external and begin with comparing the woofer only, with and without the eq, and compare it to the various digital active xo and eq settings. Thanks

Beetle - problem is I don’t drink coffee. Proper number is -0003 is the reference A. Good catch. How’s the coffee?
There are plenty of good reasons for an external XO. But it is tweaky, difficult and would put off many people. In the case of the 2.2, there isn’t a good option to squeeze best parts into the interior spaces. And the merits are likely to be substantial.

But to your Oy! issue, this problem might be peculiar to this model. The general opinion seems to be that the 2.2 is more mellow, easy, forgiving, and with a bigger bass than other Thiel speakers. Some people say it’s the only Thiel they can tolerate. I had speculated that we thought our first passive radiator somehow coupled with rooms "better" than anticipated, giving that full-bottom presentation. But it doesn’t measure "full"; it stacks up quite nicely with the 3.5 and 3.6 that I have here - matching the specified target roll off point without any bloat or other measured anomalies.

John Atkinson used the 2.2 for years as his own system reference. He commented in his Stereophile review how the passive radiator produced a "hard bottoming" relative to the CS2 port’s "soft chuffing" at volume. He said he eventually gave them up because they just wouldn’t produce loud enough bass for him. I can’t visualize how the passive would hit hard - it is made of 2 large, soft surrounds on the back and front of a semi-soft foam plug. ??? So maybe this "splatting", "generalized low end" and "easy mellowness" of the 2.2 are all attributable to these layout and overload characteristics which I am addressing with the EXO.

So, just sit tight regarding your potential need to tweak this problem on your 2.4s; by the time I get to working on the 2.4, we’ll know a lot more. I’m looking forward to picking up the pair I scored on Long Island - when it gets safer.

 I disassembled one (original prototype # -0004) cabinet, removed the crossover and wired only the woofer to the input terminal. The other (-0003) was left as a reference with the internal XO and woofer intact, but with the midrange and tweeter disconnected. I built the woofer section for -0004 by the new layout while using all the original parts in the original orientations. No upgrades, changes or replacements to confuse the issues.

. . .

 #-0004 reference "A" exhibited splatting on every bass+drum hit. It would be attributed to amp clipping or passive radiator and/or woofer bottoming - overload / or just plain too loud for the material. But I didn't turn it down. On -0003 external XO "B", those same hits were audible, but not extreme, in fact they played more like "hard punch" than distortion. . . . Of extreme interest is that speaker A sounded like a woofer, somewhat woofy, lacking the detail one would get from the midrange and tweeter. Speaker B sounded like a full-range presentation; subjectively it was satisfying on its own terms. I had to check to make sure I hadn't somehow left the midrange or tweeter connected. I hadn't.

G'morning Tom
Either my coffee hasn't kicked in or your speaker numbering is flipped from one paragraph to the next. Regardless, it sounds like you heard a *massive* improvement "simply" by moving to an external crossover.

Oy! I am supposed to be done with my mods!!!LOL
FWIW, one of my all-time top 4-5 speakers is the Avalon Ascent, possibly the only external XO speaker I've heard.

Hi @tomthiel

Sounds like you have a lot of work but all of it is engaging and creative so I am sure you are well motivated.

I did some experimenting a while ago with coils and conductors and discovered how easy it was to have a coil couple via capacitance to traces underneath it. Wonder if you are running into that as well.

Best of luck,

Erik

I find it interesting to explore places I used to live or used to spend time at on Google maps.  I figure that old farmhouse must've been real close to here and judging by the look of the houses there now it might still be standing.  Look familiar?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/602+S+Broadway+St,+Georgetown,+KY+40324/@38.2038309,-84.5603159,3a...

tomthiel

2nd Note:
Recorded music is more important now than ever.  Have fun!

Happy Listening!

tomthiel

Last week I read and watched a program describing this Neuronal Overload syndrome. Yes, it is a real medical diagnosis. The subject (person) could not tolerate any EMF/RMF stimulation from simple household appliances, cellular, internet, the list went on. 
Very rare in the global population at this time. I suspect as the entire world attempts to go,  full-on cellular/wifi, many more will suffer.
There is something to be said for living far away from the grid, especially, in places like New York City. Good to read that a provider was able to help you beat this dangerous condition.

Thank You for the time travel back into 1975. As always, the history lesson was informative and valuable as you take those mental notes into application today(2020).


After the 2.2, which model(s) are on your overhaul radar?

Happy Listening!

Thiel is considered by many to be a small signal transducer. It works best on vocal and/or small ensemble work. I agree and chalk that up to broad range requirements for overlapping drivers. OK, fair enough.
I have been dreaming in the way-back machine. I remember product development sessions back to the beginning. Come with me to 1975 at the Georgetown Road Compound, developing the 01 and 02. For nightly listening sessions, the speaker under test was placed in mono on a stand in a lovely-sounding room previously described here. The crossover network looked like a bird's nest in free space. No board, lots of space. We hung it from a ceiling hook by twine to some fixed parts, usually the heavy inductors. Many of the parts were clipped in with roach clips. Jim knew the circuits so well that he could make flying changes during music while capsulating what the change did. In an hour session we would compare a half dozen variables for him to take back to his night-time labfest. We reviewed graphs and compared notes at breakfast.

One ever-present outcome was that the finalized product always suffered from the crossover being bedded down onto a board and put in the cabinet. We always noted it and lived with it. About a month ago, a rabbit hole led to this particular warren by way of a remembrance dream. In the early years, I reviewed and journaled all service and repairs. It was not unusual to get speakers with burned resistors and even charred masonite boards. (No fire because of limited oxygen in the sealed cabinets.) I recognize thermal distortion as an avenue for improvement, and the 10 watt vs 25 watt resistor choice discussed here led to some experiments. Under musical load, resistors get hot enough to burn, and coils can get hot enough to unwind if not mechanically bound. That's serious. Resistance and quality of conductivity change with temperature. Beware of dynamic distortion

On a different progression, I have mentioned my personal health journey that has now been greatly resolved. The root problem is neuronal overload, and the primary cause is exposure to electromagnetic fields. I now own various EMF meters and devices and have mitigated much of the EMF pollution that put me in mortal danger. I, of course, now point those meters at everything, and was amazed at the soup around the 2.2 when rocking. Serious levels.

Put two and two together to equal redesigning the 2.2 crossover into a three dimensional package with more space, separation of resistors from other components, and physical separation from the drivers, in its own enclosure on a 4' umbilical. By the way, the package seems elegant to me, and in visual harmony with the cabinets. I'll post a photo when I get something presentable. For now let's talk about the woofer. It has its own board, positioned vertically with both sides exposed to air. All resistors are on the back to form an updraft cooling chimney, with the other two (midrange and tweeter) boards oriented similarly with all resistors facing inward with air inlets on the bottom and a screen on top. No metal anywhere. The rig is big enough to accommodate the largest of the CSA / MRA, etc. caps, as well as anything smaller. In the present case, I disassembled one (original prototype # -0004) cabinet, removed the crossover and wired only the woofer to the input terminal. The other (-0003) was left as a reference with the internal XO and woofer intact, but with the midrange and tweeter disconnected. I built the woofer section for -0004 by the new layout while using all the original parts in the original orientations. No upgrades, changes or replacements to confuse the issues.

Yesterday I began listening and today I continued with a long comparison followed by a set of measurements. My measurements are, sadly, still all sweep based via FuzzMeasure. Their impulse information is extrapolated mathematically, not from actual transient impulses. I'll get there eventually and get more insightful information when I do. Let's say that the two speakers via my available measuring techniques look to be virtually identical. There are no observable differences in frequency response, group delay, phase plots or waterfalls. My technique is to listen to each speaker in mono, placed beside the other; and then measure in place so that the mic hears what I hear in the same position in the same room. Then I swap right for left and listen and measure again. I am confident that I am measuring the speakers with no meaningful room noise or equipment differences.

So here goes. We have these two matched speakers with the difference being XO layout and removal from the enclosure. The test takes me back to Georgetown Road over 40 years ago to hear that delicate, lovely spatiousness before buttoning it all in the box. One recording was Pink Floyd's remastered "Take it Back" single which is both layered and detailed along with dense, dynamic and driving. #-0004 reference "A" exhibited splatting on every bass+drum hit. It would be attributed to amp clipping or passive radiator and/or woofer bottoming - overload / or just plain too loud for the material. But I didn't turn it down. On -0003 external XO "B", those same hits were audible, but not extreme, in fact they played more like "hard punch" than distortion. And all the nuance of the band and backing vocals hummed right along. Other audition material included the entire album of Patty Larkin's Stranger's World and Stereophile's Test record 3 cuts 3 and 9 - very detailed, dynamic bass-based work. Of extreme interest is that speaker A sounded like a woofer, somewhat woofy, lacking the detail one would get from the midrange and tweeter. Speaker B sounded like a full-range presentation; subjectively it was satisfying on its own terms. I had to check to make sure I hadn't somehow left the midrange or tweeter connected. I hadn't.

For me, today is a game changer. All the other upgrades have provided various levels of insight, even excitement. And their inclusion has always seemed contingent on effective budget analysis for most contribution per affordability. But this change is non-negotiable. It changes the league from small-source vocal ensemble speaker to throw anything at me.The persistent motivation had been how to shoe-horn all those large upgrade parts into very small spaces in the very well-braced 2.2; as well as how to then simultaneously address the re-bracing that would improve performance. There simply isn't room in there to do it all. I first took out the XO to install my bracing upgrade for testing. But I won't go down that rabbit hole yet. This performance upgrade is totally engaging. Next I'll implement the midrange and tweeter sections of the External XO. By the way, Resistor 1 and 2 got hot enough to burn and coil 1 got pretty warm - all mounted on stand-offs on a vertical board in open air. Imagine the environment in the sealed cabinet with a woofer within spitting distance producing its heat and EMFs.

Now it's back to the drawing board to re-orient those two resistors for better convection cooling.
Nice to visit. Thanks again for all the help and inspiration many of you have provided.

TT

theaudiotweak

Good to see you again. I look forward in reading more about your development and research in wave interference as well.

Happy Listening!

tomthiel

Thank You! for the update. Yes, you have put in quite the hours attempting the next evolution of our beloved loudspeakers.

Knowing a pair of speakers is paramount and will serve well as a frame of reference. The Panel members who own 2.2 models are lucky to receive upgrades, firstly,  upon official release.

Have fun and enjoy the Music!

Happy Listening!

Always fascinated with vibrations we can sense and hear but have no method yet to test for or measure. Working on an applique to surfaces to reduce shear wave interference on most any surface. My favorites being speakers and cabinets and musical instruments.Tom D

Guys - I would like to provide a report of general status and recent work. As many of you know, I am deeply immersed in redevelopment work. That has led to many rabbit holes, each of those leading to its own warren. The possibilities are limitless and cannot all be addressed. I have taken cues from many of you here as well as in off forum interactions. Thank you. Although I have accumulated and surveyed many models, I am concentrating on the model CS2.2 because I have 2 pairs and know it so intimately.

This current work is informed via my role as manufacturing developer, subsequent use in recording evaluation and mastering work, reviewers comments and general feedback over the years, as well as issues and characterestics upgraded in subsequent models and my speculations on causes. In other words, I am paying attention to a broad range of inputs.

I can't go into all the details, but I can say that there are multiple, parallel performance paths, each of which seems worthwhile. These paths all lead to more clarity, harmonic rightness, spatiality and ease. It is hard to believe that so much can be made so much better in a speaker where these areas are already strengths. I tip my hat to Jim as a designer and to the human auditory processing power. We make sense, good, satisfying sense of pulsating air pressure to imagine full blown music in our minds - on pretty sketchy data streams. Amazing really. That's why MP-3 and Wave Radios can work as well as they do. But fundamentally cleaner data streams make for more thorough immersion in the imagined music.

My newly developed MO includes taking the next title off the shelf on its own terms and relating to it as the producers hoped. That provides a radically different perspective from taking a few well known tunes and perfecting their translation. Let me state that I am not seeing any meaningful changes in frequency balance while hearing significantly different musical information and involvement. I find this phenomenon fascinating.

Let's jump to a persistent, real, global problem with Thiel speakers.

prof

I can guarantee the positive attributes of a CS 2.7 loudspeaker as well.

Well reported. Joseph Audio is close, yet, not a Thiel Audio. 

Happy Listening!

All -

Memorial Day: Remembrance of our fallen Heroes.

I can guarantee that if Eric heard my 2.7s he wouldn't find them bright.They are clear, rich and full.

In fact I put my 2.7s back in my system months ago just as a change from my Joseph Perspectives and have been so satisfied I haven't put the Perspectives back in the system. :-)

(I will eventually though, that's why I like having more than one pair of speakers).

Rob - you have stirred the soup. It's still cooking . . .

Tom & Beetlemania
Thank you for experimenting with the parallel speaker cable configuration ,  using Tom's finding I moved my cables
from 1 1/2" to 4"s ( as far apart as possible ) and heard or perceived a difference in front to back sound staging .
I repositioned my speakers to take advantage of the change .

Blue -  sometimes the least expensive route is to repair yours.

blue222

Welcome! Good to see you here.
Consider another Integra receiver, if you like its sound.

Otherwise, consider a Creek or Music Hall integrated amp.
This is a sonic match, especially, for a small room.

I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes and system.

Happy Listening!

@blue222 - You're asking a lot.  I'm thinking your best bet is to buy a plain power amplifier and run your computer headphone out to it using RCA cables and an adapter.  

This and the comparable items are decent options I think.  Nuforce is supposed to be great for the money and is close to your price point.  The Dayton amp in the comparables below for 199 has been around forever so I think it must be a solid value.  For <300 I don't think you're going to find anything with fairly high power and decent sound.  Maybe if you go used.  I think you could find something that will be fine at low to moderate volume.  
https://www.amazon.com/NuForce-STA120-170watt-250watt-Stereo/dp/B010BJJ72Q

Hi, I'm a new member to this site.  I bought my Thiel CS2.2 speakers in 1992 and they've been great, but my Integra receiver (DTR 5.5) is having trouble.  I'm not wanting to spend much on a new receiver because I don't know how long I'll keep the Thiels...we might downsize to a smaller home, plus I'd prefer a simpler system. Don't laugh, but do you think I could find a receiver that would work with the Thiels AND play my CD collection (which is on my iMac computer) for under $300? 

Happy Memorial Day Weekend!  All

jon_5912

Thank You for the kind words. I have had the good fortune of military and private sector training which  prepared me for the daily taskers at issue.
Thiel Audio is most certainly worth noticing I feel as well. After all, one is hard-pressed to find a better performing loudspeaker. It bears repeating, the Timbre,  to my ears is so right. 

Happy Listening!

@jafant we're entirely different species of humans who appreciate what Thiel was trying to do.  It's worth noticing I think.  You and I are on opposite ends of a spectrum.  I don't mean to be critical or demeaning at all.  You have something I do not.  You have a unique ability to interact positively with people.  

jon_5912

I have spent some audition time w/ Wilson Audio Sasha and Sophia models. Both were musically satisfying. At this price -point, not as articulate and musical (timbre) as a Thiel loudspeaker.
To date, I have not auditioned Magico. 

Happy Listening!