Thiel Owners

Have been watching this thread with huge interest and perhaps it’s time I waded in with a few initial thoughts, again on the 3.5s. I’m 100% with oblgny in his praise for these amazing speakers. Goodness knows I’ve owned a hell of a lot of speakers in the past 30 years, from three types of Quad electrostatic, to Kef 107/2s to Celestion Kingstons, to LS3/5As, to name but a few, and nothing comes even close to what the 3.5s do as a whole. I truly think my quest is at an end. They handle ANY genre of music utterly effortlessly and don’t need huge amounts of gain to sparkle either. As oblgny says, there’s something so right about them. And yet they aren’t exactly the most sought after speakers and go for prices that are punching way, way below their weight. I have no hesitation in calling Jim Thiel an utter genius of speaker design. Admittedly not the easiest speakers to drive, but who cares when the sound is so gloriously complete. Perhaps someone could answer if these were the only full range Thiel speakers? I can confirm that the Kentucky service dept is alive and well and I just bought new spikes from them a couple of weeks ago. They don’t do the rounded tip ones any more however.

As a slightly negative footnote, while I'm pleased that the new regime at Thiel has allowed the service dept to stay alive, the new designs are not worthy of the brand. You'd at least think they'd retain the coherent source concept, wouldn't you. Presumably they purchased the IP too?

Minuscule differences of course, but I think neither speaker went to 20Hz, something like 23Hz, but I appreciate that’s as near as dammit to full range.

"Thanks! for sharing your impressions and experiences- catalysis what gear, including cabling, are your using in your system?"

Benchmark DAC2 HGC, Bridged Adcom GFA 555II’s, Benchmark star quad interconnects. Canare star quad speaker cable. I have the 3.5 equalizer permanently in circuit. All components connected via Adcom Ace Enhancer.

Contrary to some people’s experience with Adcoms and Thiels, I don’t find the sound presentation sound harsh at all. I think that is helped by the very high quality dac which means the Adcoms are amplifying a very pure and accurate signal. I also agree with others that toe in should be absolutely minimal for best treble resolution.

Despite Thiel’s comments that these speakers aren’t very critical to position, I find that they benefit enormously from experimentation. Even two inches less toe in can bring big contrasts in sound presentation. I do have to wonder how many owners dismissed them as harsh without playing around with them in their music rooms?

My own take is that the tweeter has quite wide dispersion characteristics and any attempt to over focus treble direction, for example pointing directly at the listener position, essentially takes them out of Jim’s intended design window.

Previous speakers in my listening room had always benefited from quite fierce toe in, essentially with the tweeters pointing at my ears. With the Thiels it’s totally different. They don’t sound bad in that configuration, but it does compress their ultra impressive sound staging, plus the treble is far better integrated with the other drivers when in a more or less flat set up. I have about an inch of toe in just to channel the sound away from the side walls.

Essentially I’m in heaven with how they sound.

While led they do plunge Stygian depths of bass, the sound is still lean when it needs to sound lean. In other words there appears to be zero cabinet coloration. To my ears the 3.5s have the sound I was chasing with electrostatics, but with all the dynamism they lack. Just superb.

nkonor my understanding, as far as 3.5s are concerned, is that Thiel service can only rebuild drivers. I understand the midrange can be rebuilt for $300 each, so not cheap, but I think well worth it to extend the life of these wonderful speakers. My mids are fine, but the design of the 3.5 means these are the most likely driver to fail.

Well I must say, as a 3.5 owner, this is the thread that keeps on giving every week. Some fascinating insights guys.

Listening to the 3.5s as I write and I can confirm other recent comments that their reputation for brightness is simply a misunderstanding of what’s happening when you listen through them. They will ruthlessly murder bad recordings, which is what you’re hearing sometimes. Use a first class recording and you’ll get first class sonics. It really is that simple and not a necessity to pair them with amp exotica, though of course more is always more :-)

Most crucial tip is to let your amp(s) warm up nicely, otherwise the Thiels will reveal any audible negativity in that process too.

In terms of Thiel’s repair tariff, I won’t hesitate to use that service as requirements dictate. Paid $800 for mine, in pretty mint condition, and good luck trying to find better high end audio value than that.

Also concur with the point about bass. Full range only rears its head when full range is on the recording. As has also been said, this is bass that’s musical and 100% coherent. I reckon that’s one of the toughest tricks to perform in speaker design. As we all know Jim was a towering genius.

Think fine electrostatics with true balls, all delivered seamlessly, and you’ve got the picture.

Will continue to follow what everyone says with interest and chip in where I feel is useful.

It's possible to overload that mid range, certainly, and there are many anecdotal cases of this. The 3.5's will go plenty loud enough without the need for that, however, unless your listening room is half the size of Madison Square Garden :-)

In terms of the equalizer, this is how they were designed and I see no reason to meddle with that. But as always with audio, one's own experience is unique and, of course, very room dependent. If you think your setup is better without the equalizer, then leave it out, or maybe just select the 40HZ option.

I'm lucky enough to have a dedicated listening room, so the Thiels are located without any spousal input :-) I can imagine situations where if the 3.5's are placed near the rear wall that the equalizer will not be performing within spec.

Thanks Dave,

This guy nailed it didn't he. To be honest it's something that's been happening in audio since the very early 90s'. Celestion and KEF and Quad are other good examples.

Sadly it's a microcosm of life in general, in that there's very little that you can't make a little cheaper and nastier.

oblgny, I find your insights most interesting and very similar to my own experiences with the 3.5’s.

There are certainly more "plug and play" speakers out there, but when you’ve got them set up correctly, the 3.5’s go places that I don’t hear on vastly more expensive equipment.

For over 30 years I struggled to get a speaker presentation balance I was totally happy with. Frequent dalliances with Quad ESL’s of different stripes took me towards the goal, but always, always with the caveat of poor power handling and a lack of low end balls. I tried KEF 107/2s and they either didn’t suit my then listening room, which I doubt, or just weren’t as capable as I expected. Tried a slew of other brands and also enjoyed my Celestion Kingstons, which were probably the second best pair I owned. I even loved my DCM TF600s, which sounded wonderful but perhaps a little colored in the low end. LS3/5As were heavenly in some respects, but again the lack of power handling meant I was tailoring my musical program to fit the speakers, which is really not a good thing in my view.

By chance I then I came across an almost mint pair of the Thiels. I’d never heard them dem’d at a show when I attended the London show for about 20 years straight, or at least if I did it never impressed me. It was a total revelation because they really do offer the best of all worlds.

My listening room session last night was typical of their chameleon-like versatility. From Boston, to Debussy to Zeppelin to Yello to Joni Mitchell to Stevie Ray Vaughan to Jamiroquai to Laura Nyro to the Elgar Cello Concerto to Roy Harper to the Kings College Choir, and many other variations, they kept up a consistent standard of excellence that you just never hear with other brands. They simply don’t have a weakness and you have to hand it to Jim for such an amazing achievement. The way his memory has been cast away by the present regime is a disgrace.

On the theme of the way Jim’s legacy was cast away, view this great YouTube video by a highly perceptive young fellow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkR5lAl22kk

Hi Dave, well I guess that's pretty reassuring. It would indeed be tragic if Jim's designs were allowed to succumb to the ravages of time. I dread the day when I have to look for another speaker. 

The subject of how long Rob will be able to keep the Thiel servicing going is one that should concern all us owners. It’s pretty clear to me that the new Thiel lords and masters aren’t adding any value into the business, in terms of innovation, indeed I haven’t read in any forum that anyone actually owns a pair of these rather ordinary looking new models, with their anonymous "me too" design.

It’s to the new company’s absolute credit that the servicing has been allowed to continue, as that at least provides some connection between old and new, but how long will this very optional indulgence be tolerated? Especially if the new speaker range isn’t successful, and quite frankly I struggle to see how it can be, certainly at the ambitious pricing.

All that being said, I haven’t heard the new Thiel range, but as they appear a very conventional design thats done away with the coherent source concept, long experience of the ways of this industry suggests there is little room for optimism, but I am hopefully wrong, because their success means that the service department can continue without creating too much cost cutting attention.

I have only had to deal with Rob once for a new set of spikes and, apart from being a really nice guy, he is clearly now the world authority on all things Thiel.

The major likelihood for most of us is midrange rebuilds from time to time (that was what Rob said, indeed), for which he quoted me $300 each earlier this summer. Mine are fine right now, but it’s clear they’ll one day need some attention and I’m seriously considering just getting them rebuilt ahead of the need to give Rob a little more business.

Other than that it will be a matter of someone else being entrusted to rebuild them and I can only imagine that being a compromise, to some extent at least.

Naturally everyone’s mileage will vary on this, according to one’s room and equipment, but I just love how the system sounds with the equalizer in the system.

Even with the equalizer on, you could never describe the 3.5s as bass heavy. What I think it brings to the party is a sort of very refined approach that only lets the Thiels dip low when the musical signal dictates. Some might prefer a more generous bass, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but I love the overall voicing with the equalizer.

As I mentioned earlier, I had a bad experience with the KEF Kube in my 107/2s, so perhaps part of my enthusiasm is that Thiel didn’t make the same compromises with their external unit.

Anyway, I’m pleased that you found a solution that’s right for you, which is all that matters.

jafant, I would concur about timbre. It's a quality I've only heard to the same sort of level in electrostatics. In fact, owning Thiels changed my long held perception that only electrostatics could create that illusion to the same extent.

It's the consistency of the 3.5's that just blows me away. They've handled every type of musical program I've thrown at them with equal aplomb.

I keep coming back to this, but it is a tragedy that Jim's design ideals aren't being adhered to any more. Here was a guy who dedicated his life to better sound and, I believe, took his designs to places that other speakers could only dream of arriving at.

It's the balance of their overall qualities that makes them the best value you can find. I'm constantly amazed by the relatively low prices on the used market, when they trounce so many grandee speakers.

What I have found with the 3.5s very recently is that positioning is actually more critical than advertised to get the best bass response.

Of course this is probably very room specific but I've now discovered that sitting just inside the triangle with them as wide apart as my modest music room width allows, with a decent amount of toe in, makes a staggering difference. Previously I had tried positions quite a distance from the Thiels, thereoretically to give them more breathing room. I've found out that, in my situation at least, they don't need it. The 3.5s have effectively disappeared aurally speaking.

As Dave observes above, the bass response is actually extremely tweakable with Thiels. 

Although i I didn't think I needed a sub before, I think that is even more the case in light of recent speaker juggling.

Hi Fellow Thiel Lovers,
Haven't been on here for a while, but I have been following the thread every Friday when the weekly email arrives from Audiogon. This is a wonderful chain of discussion with like minded audio folk. Great stuff.

Anyway I just wanted to update you all on how I fixed one of my 3.5 mid ranges after it had developed a slight tear in the outer cone rib.

Of course the first thing to say that, as peerless as Jim was as a speaker designer, those tiny mid-ranges in the 3.5 are really vulnerable to breaking in some way. They undergo quite a lot of stress in that otherwise stunning design.

I was listening at reasonably high volume, although nothing at all excessive, when I heard the dreaded rasping sound out of the right channel.

Next morning I composed an email to Rob asking him how much for the rebuild. Reply came back straight away, typical Rob of course, that it would be $300 plus shipping per driver. Now that isn't too out of the way, in the scheme of things, but I figured I'd like to get both mid ranges done simultaneously, taking me somewhere North of $600 of course.

So, I thought, what if I could effect a decent repair job, while I saved up to get both drivers done later in the year/early next?

I then remembered that I had refoamed some old Infinity 625's I keep for general use around the home and how brilliantly Aleene's Tacky Glue gel had worked in giving me superb adhesion at the foam edge/cone interface.

So, I fetched a tiny paintbrush and carefully applied the Aleene's to the pretty small fissure in the 3.5 mid.

Well, what can I say, it has completely solved the issue and I've done tests with my most bass heavy tracks, y'know the Kraftwerks, the Jamiroquais etc., and everything is back to being absolutely perfect and rock solid.

So I just wanted to pass this on, not as a way of depriving Rob of service work, but as a great way of giving the mid-ranges a bit more stay of execution before they have to be shipped to Kentucky when the piggy bank allows.

Aleene's is a pretty well known speaker adhesive solution and appears just perfect for those paper cones on the 3.5 mids. At around $3.50 for a bottle of the stuff, it's worth having some around for such eventualities. It's incredibly flexible and doesn't seem to react badly to any surface.

Available at Ace Hardware, Walmart etc.

Hope this is useful info for you 3.5 owners.

All good here thanks jafant. Hope it’s a good summer for you also.

Oblgny I totally agree with you that it’s worth the rebuild fee and that’s exactly what I’ll be doing.

The nice thing about the Aleene’s repair is twofold really. First it allows me, or anyone else for that matter, to save up rather than have to unexpectedly cough up the money up front or load a credit card. That said, had the Aleene’s not worked so magnificently I wouldn’t have hesitated to send them to Rob immediately. Interestingly, Rob says that as the rebuilds are measured against a reference it isn’t necessary to rebuild both, but I’d just feel happier doing that.

The other thought in my mind is that presumably Thiel rebuilds won’t be around forever, so it’s good to know this nearly free repair can, in some cases, provide a solution to keep them singing.

Hi Everyone,
Thiel can keep appointing CEOs, but until one of them finally gets to grips that the company's brand collateral is being decimated by a never ending stream of uninspiring, underwhelming "me too" speakers, the decline will continue.

It's beyond belief to me that the Coherent Source concept doesn't feature any longer. That said, it's going to make our old Thiels much more valuable, but I'd rather that Thiel was a going concern making good money, if only to keep Rob in a job.

I hadn’t looked at the Thiel website for some time until tonight. This is indeed an increasingly worrying situation. And yet an entirely predictable one, as a new CEO with no apparent high end audio experience makes her presence felt, with what appears to be an exclusive and unwavering focus on wireless and streaming products. Enough to make us all weep.

The tragedy is that they’ve cornered themselves into a situation where they’re flogging a wafer-thin "me too" bluetooth range, simply because they totally botched the transition from Jim’s stunning designs to those ordinary and yet unbelievably expensive speakers, for what they were, that, as far as I can ascertain, no one had even the slightest interest in. And now, it seems, those are being discontinued, with no sign of an equivalent replacement range.

Of course none of this would matter anywhere near as much if we didn’t all rely on Rob from time to time. As I’ve said earlier in this thread, I’ve repaired one of my 3.5 mid ranges myself and, I have to say, it’s still holding up wonderfully well. I think I may be getting both formally repaired sooner than later, though, given this latest iteration of the company, which seems to be moving even further away from what made Thiel such a special organization.

All that being said, what would happen if Thiel went bust while my mid ranges were with them? Hmmm, not such a no brainer decision to send them away then...

It seems very likely that the rationale behind keeping the Kentucky service department alive was to maintain a dialog with old customers, perhaps in the hope of interesting them in a new range. But that possibility has all but disappeared now hasn’t it!

It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest to take my weekly journey through the latest additions to this thread and read that the service department, and/or Thiel as a whole, is no more.

Of course that may not be the end, even then, as presumably Rob and/or others could set up an independent servicing operation, perhaps buying the old tooling, reference pairs etc. Quite honestly that can’t happen soon enough and we can then all stop obsessing about the current Thiel company woes and poor product decisions and just leave them to commit commercial suicide.

We’ve seen this situation repeat itself too many times in this hobby, right back to the days when other wet behind the ears execs came into the industry in the early 90s with aspirations to sell a surround sound system to one and all. And we know how that ended...

Ultimately, you just have to marvel at the insanity of acquiring a company with the reputation, technical and customer service collateral that Jim and Kathy diligently built up and ending up in short order with a range of products containing zero DNA of what made Thiel so wonderful.

Hi Again Everyone,

Hope you’re all getting ready for some great holiday season listening.

Disconcerting recent news/rumors about Thiel’s possible demise isn’t it, though not exactly the surprise of 2017. Frankly, in the voice of the best Bond villains: "we’ve been expecting you."

My main, and admittedly selfish, fear is what happens if I sent something off for service and the company was suddenly closed down. As I explained in detail here a few months ago, I was able to do a 100% effective repair on a minute tear in one of my midrange drivers, but I’d still like to get both pairs fully refurbed at some point. The issue is that I don’t want to disturb anything while my repair holds up and right now there’s no reason to think it won’t, or that I couldn’t perform the same repair again.

But what happens to our precious bits and pieces that may be in Kentucky at time of close down etc? I’m sure Rob would do what he can, but obviously events can happen fast and unpredictably when a company closes, for whatever reason.

Let’s hope that the ship steadies. I confess that confidence isn’t high. The new MD so far seems oblivious to two channel and solely appears to be on some sort of mission to use lifestyle marketing to sell upscale Bluetooth speakers to millennial types.

Maybe the longer term plan is better than it currently looks? However I do wish another audiophile speaker manufacturer would attempt a buyout, as the current management appears to know as much about real hifi as I do about what is fashionable clothing/style these days i.e. zilch.

Still loving my 3.5s and currently feeding them with tubes. Beautiful sound.

Hi Jafant, thanks it will be interesting to see what Rob says. 

It really is great news that Rob will apparently continue. Frankly, Kentucky service dept was the only reason I was in the least bothered about Thiel Audio continuing.

Hi all,

If this report is correct, Thiel Audio is now dead. https://www.strata-gee.com/thiel-toast

Sorry if this has been posted here already, but I couldn’t see it at a quick glance.

Hopefully the Kentucky service dept is poised to rise like a phoenix from the ashes of a very sad corpse indeed.

In over 30 years in brand marketing, I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed such gross incompetence as exemplified by successively poorer management since the takeover.

Effectively the true Thiel passed away with Jim, so there’s little more to mourn now, especially if Rob manages to carry on in a new service business, as is being suggested here.

I have a CS3.5 eq unit that needs a service, but was unwilling to send while the black cloud hung over Thiel Audio. Rob will be getting this work once I hear he has managed to set up service operation. I also have a couple of midranges that could do with some TLC.

It would be nice to think that someone could start making proper Thiel speakers again with all of Jim's concepts intact. Not holding my breath on that one.

This is a really fantastic outcome following the disastrous dragging of the Thiel name through the mud with the mismanagement since the takeover. The fact that Rob is looking to offer upgrade kits is just the best news of 2018, and it's only the 1st of February. Excited.

@frozentundra Benchmark DAC2 here with CS3.5s.

Interesting comments Tom concerning the use of subs with 3.5s without the equalizer in circuit. That’s exactly how I run mine now - dual subs actually - and I’m thrilled with the result. This allows me to do real justice to more powerful recordings without worrying about the stress on the vulnerable mid-range drivers.

I takes a bit of fine tuning to get everything balanced, but well worth it.

I’m actually resting my 3.5s at the moment and am running my Quad 57s. What these help to confirm is how good that 3.5 mid-range is. It’s certainly not disgraced by the Quads.

On the current topic of amps, I’ve been running my 3.5s for the past year on my VPI 299D tube amp, sometimes with EL34s, but mostly with KT150s. The results have been astonishingly good and there’s tons of power to drive them, though I’d judge I’m a pretty modest user of gain. There were only 100 of these VPI amps made, but I understand they have a lot of Primaluna parts in them, inc the same excellent toroidal transformers, so anyone using, say, a Primaluna Dialogue should get similarly impressive results.

Oblgny so sorry to learn about your run of bad luck. I had to offload my very nice old gear about 10 years ago when I moved continents. Never an easy thing to do but what I can tell you is that it at least gave me a chance to reassess what I had before and very gradually build a much more effective system from the ground up. It took some time, but I’m very happy with where I’m at. I really hope the same for you. Starting afresh at least enables you to apply acquired knowledge and to learn from the equipment purchasing mistakes we’ve all made in the past.

The best discovery was the Thiel 3.5s that have gone on to become the fulcrum of my system.

As a 3.5 owner I'm very excited to read that Tom will be giving the design some TLC. I already use dual subs with mine, sans my EQ box, and find this allows me to fine tune the speakers to my music room. I think this configuration also gives the relatively fragile midrange drivers an easier time. I'll be watching developments with great interest.

Maybe I’m just lucky, but I find the integration of two subs with my 3.5s to be seamless and without issue.

I spent a little time getting the positioning absolutely correct, by ear, which in my music room turns out to be exactly 1 foot behind the speakers with the sub drivers at 90 degrees to the Thiel drivers and both sub drivers pointing into the soundstage. My inspiration for this configuration was side firing subs such as can be found in the Golden Ear range. I found that having the drivers pointing at the listening position made them too obvious. For whatever reason, having them at right angles to the 3.5s creates an incredibly smooth transition. I never sit there thinking I have subs on. It all sounds totally integrated.

Obviously there is some tweaking with sub settings but what’s interesting is that I found exactly the same positioning and levels also work perfectly with my Quad 57s. The subs are connected to the amp by an extra speaker cable per channel. I prefer to still let the Thiel woofers do their high quality stuff and then set the subs so that they subtly kick in at the right point.

The subs are the now discontinued but still available Polk 505s which were practically being given away at the end of their run, but work amazingly well having been designed with music reproduction in mind, according to the blurb. These have 12" drivers so they produce plenty of very clean oomph. I bought them as a stopgap, assuming that I’d have to upgrade to fancy RELs or similar to get great results. Three years on and I don’t have the slightest urge to change this set up.

I note Tom’s comments about the preference for a new all-in-one bass eq solution on the work he is doing. However, I can report that the bass performance I’m getting is substantially better than through the Thiel EQ box. It seems to be a really effective compromise.

With ageing speakers, I think it’s also valid to say that running subs takes a lot of strain out of the mid range drivers, especially. Obviously for the moment it’s important to keep those running until an adequate replacement is either created or sourced.
Fully accept that everyone is going to have their own experiences in their own listening environments, but in my own case I just couldn’t be happier.

I want to be able to run these 3.5s for the rest of my days if that’s at all possible. They are that rarest of speaker that never drops the ball on any type of material. As happy with punk as they are a string quartet. A genius design.

Hi Everyone,

Just dropping by to say hello for the first time in a while.

Catching up with this thread is always part of my Friday routine and it’s lovely to see that there’s so much enthusiasm for this wonderful brand.

I see one or two new folks with 3.5’s have joined the fun of late. To them I would say try your lovely speakers with dual subs and ditch the equalizer. That’s how I run mine and, with a bit of messing around to find the best sub locations, it takes the 3.5s to another level, in my view.

Still very excited to follow Tom’s development work.

Stay safe folks.

warjarrett I messaged you.

I simply couldn’t agree more about 3.5s. I totally love mine and will never, ever sell. If I can keep them going, and all is good right now, they will always have a spot in my speaker rotation.

Not posted here much lately, but I check in here every few days and am really excited at the possibilities emerging for keeping the dream alive with these wonderful speakers that we are all so lucky to own.

As far as phono stages go, it’s sometimes possible to pick up a used Manley Chinook at the top end of, or just a bit over, the budget you mention. This is what I run and works fantastic with any speaker, including my 3.5s. It’s basically Manley’s top of the range $8500 Steelhead model without a lot of the bells and whistles. Tubes in it as well so that ticks one of your boxes. Also has very versatile settings to accommodate just about any mm/mc/mi cart.

Hi Everyone. Belated Season’s Greetings to all. As I might have mentioned earlier in this thread, I’ve been using two subs very, very sucessfully with my 3.5s for a couple of years now.

Much of the following may therefore be repeated comment, but I think is worth regurgitating here to add grist to the mill in terms of the current discussion on the validity of the two sub approach.

This move was actually enforced in that I changed to a VPI 299D tube integrated amp, usually using four KT150s, and thus had no way of being able to incorporate the bass EQ unit in the system, as it doesn’t offer a tape loop.

My strong opinion is that, in the context of my listening room, this has subjectively been a major sonic improvement.

As has been suggested here earlier, I feel that the drivers are under much less stress with two subs and, as such, the 3.5s have room to breath.

It probably took a day or so to properly dial in the subs and I’ve never felt the slightest urge to change anything since then.

Even though the 3.5s were already easily the best conventional speaker I have owned with the EQ unit - I alternate them with my Quad 57s - they impress even more with the subs, which I have positioned about a foot behind each 3.5 and firing at each other into the soundstage with the woofers at 90 degrees to the 3.5 drivers. Again in the context of my listening room, this is where they work best without a hint of directionality.

All that being said, I’m eagerly awaiting Tom’s upgrades and watch this space, as it were, every week to check on progress.

I’ve owned a lot of great conventional speakers, including Celestion Kingston’s, Kef 107/2’s, and Rogers LS3/5A’s and none of them holds a candle, overall, to properly setup and well cared for 3.5s, which I truly believe to be one of the best, most well thought through and underrated designs ever.

I acquired them a few years ago simply because a cherished and essentially mint pair became available quite local to me and I’d always enjoyed listening to Thiels at hifi shows etc. It wasn’t therefore a planned purchase but has proven to be one of, if not the, best moves I ever made in this wonderful hobby.

I will never sell them and after well over 30 years of being only ever partially happy with other reasonably conventional designs, I have my forever speakers, so anything that can be done to ensure they outlast me is going to be welcomed with open arms.

As I mentioned earlier, I also run near mint 1978 Quad 57s in the system from time to time and I’m always astounded by how well the Thiels compare in the areas for which the Quads are so renowned in their midrange, timbre and transparency.

Hoping that 2020 sees the first fruits of Tom and Rob’s labors. Wishing everyone on here a great year ahead.

Hi Everyone. Still dropping by every Friday to check out what’s happening in my favorite Audiogon thread.

Really good to read about the AHB2 experiences. I have been considering trialing one of these with my 3.5’s.

Previous experiences with bridging other amps (using the 3.5s) also revealed that the single amp option was preferable.

I currently run a VPI 299D tube amp with huge success, but the AHB2 has been calling to me for some time, not least because it would make a great partner with my Benchmark DAC2 HGC, of course. I also have a super pair of 1978 Quad 57’s and I gather that the AHB2 is a nice match for those also.

I decided to take my old B&K AVR202 surround amp off the shelf earlier this week. The two channel performance is amazing and you have so much control over gain at both source and output levels. A lot of fun and incredible sound.

@yyzsantabarbara I'm following your AHB2 experience with great interest as I'm considering trialing this amp in my own system, which includes CS 3.5s and a Benchmark DAC2 HGC.

I've read comments about the lean bass of the AHB2, so I wasn't surprised to read of your similar thoughts.

I also, however, note that you consider the amp to be a keeper, so one imagines it has some other very redeeming features.

Appreciate you've just purchased the 3.7s, but I wonder if you've thought about adding musical dual subs to your system?

With a bit of careful setup, this would unquestionably address any perceived bass deficiencies and enable you to enjoy the plus points of the AHB2.

A couple of years ago, I stopped using the 3.5 bass equalizer and invested in a couple of decent dual subs. I've never looked back. 

Anyway just a thought for you to consider.

Do keep us posted.

My own take on using tubes with 3.5s (I’ve used a VPI 299D integrated with mine for about three or four years now), is that component quality is as important as lots of power.

There were only 100 299Ds ever made (it was a vanity project around the time of Harry Weisfeld’s retirement) so it’s a fair bet that I’m the only guy out there who has ever used one on 3.5s.

However, Steve Leung, who hand built the 299D and designed it in collaboration with Harry, used a lot of the same internals as Primaluna deploys, including the same transformers, resistors, capacitors, point to point wiring, triode/ultra linear switching etc, so a Primaluna amp would be the easier comparative audition.

The 3.5s are great at exposing any weakness in the system, of course, but even with four EL34s in the 299D, there’s more than enough power to control these speakers really effectively.

In fact I nowadays much prefer the 34s to the optional KT150s that I occasionally install for kicks and giggles. The 150s are, of course, about as powerful as audio tubes get, but the 34s are way more musical and I find there’s no shortage of clout when using them.

I have Adcom and B&K solid state amps waiting in the wings for the most part and neither of them bests the tubes. In fact it’s really not even close.

The point of writing this is to reinforce recent comments made about how well 3.5s work with tubes. I do believe, however, that a reasonably modern design with robust wide bandwidth output/toroidal transformers is probably critical.

With no disrespect intended to those of you putting forward various proprietary solutions for sub set up, I use the ultimate power in the universe for such configuration with my 3.5s - a pair of ears.

Not scientific, but my goal, as I’m sure applies to all, is to create the sound that best works for me musically, not technically.

As I say, not wishing to put down other solutions, but I really can’t see how ears can be beaten.

I wanted to share my experiences in the past few weeks with using Townshend Super Tweeters on my 3.5s. I have deleted my earlier post on this as it was published in the middle of a deep conversation on amps and I think it must have flown over everyone’s radar. Therefore I am reposting it as I do think my findings are worthy of note for Thiel Owners, and actually anyone with great speakers... and I’d be very interested to hear of other Thiel owner thoughts on/experiences with super tweeters.

Given that Max Townshend developed these around Quad ESL 57s, I actually bought these first and foremost to accompany my own 57s.

While they are highly impressive in that application, I have to report that they actually make a much bigger difference with my 3.5s.

The effects of these super tweeters are far more wide ranging than just improving the top end, which they do incredibly well. They actually benefit the entire audible spectrum and provide much greater clarity, definition and musicality right down into the deep bass.

Soundstage improves in all dimensions. Images occupy far more palpable spaces and it’s the sort of upgrade that has you listening late into the night to hear elements of your music collection rendered better than ever in the context of your own system.

The super tweeters have multiple gain settings to allow a lot of adjustment to best fit the system/room. It’s pretty easy to dial them in and find a beautiful sweet spot position. They are quite small and fit perfectly on the veneered top section of the speakers.

Rather than changing the sonic character of the 3.5s, they seem to make it even more obvious and my own feelings are that these wonderful creations by Jim now sound in a different, much higher class.

The UK-made super tweeters can be imported direct from Townshend via Audiogon and I can vouch that Townshend’s service is first class. They even offer a money back deal, but that’s easy to do as I struggle to imagine anyone ever sends these back after trialing them.

They certainly aren’t cheap, but the overall effects more than justify the investment. It seems that every subtle nuance is improved. Yes I think they are that good. They still seem to be running in and progressively improving even further, which can be most easily heard in ever more convincing timbre and astounding extra detail retrieval.

Not sure if Tom’s plans include adding a super tweeter to his 3.5 tweaks, but here’s a no brainer upgrade you can try for yourself right now.

Highest recommendation. A great addition after you’ve first added dual subs. I think you’ll love your Thiels even more. I know I do, and I didn’t think that was possible.

Hi Everyone,

It’s been a good while since I checked in on this wonderful thread, but I do try to keep up with posts pretty much every week.

I’ll update on my fairly recent changes to the setup around my 3.5s, but I firstly want to thank everyone for their continued contributions here, demonstrating the love we all have for this brand of brands and for Jim’s peerless work.

I’ve owned my 3.5s now for just over 7 years. They were the cherished pair of a most careful owner, sold by his family after he passed. They were especially keen to find a buyer who would love and care for them just the same and every once in a great while I reconnect with them to let them know that these are still my favorite speakers in my little stable, which also includes Quad 57s and Celestion Kingstons.

About a year ago we moved from Utah to Minnesota and I was finally able to indulge in an amplification change from tubes that I’d been planning for some time - the Benchmark LA4 (pre) and AHB2 (power) combo.

This substantially consolidated what we all know to be true in that the 3.5s, and Thiels in general, respond magnificently to better, not necessarily hugely powerful, amplification.

The Benchmark pairing are rightly considered to be about the last word in accurate measuring amplification and have so elevated my 3.5s. The soundstage has improved in all dimensions and the imaging and indeed musicality are so convincing and precise that I only wish Jim had been around to try the LA4 and AHB2 with his designs, as I think he would have loved the result.

Cabling has changed too. Benchmark sells its own star Quad based cables, which work fine until you try something better. In my case this was Audioquest King Cobra interconnects throughout the system and Nordost Ax Angel speaker cable, which not only sounds sensational but is thin and therefore incredibly easy to install in the unusual speaker input position on the underside of the 3.5s.

This combo, together with digital source and turntable upgrades, achieves a sound that is still more than "current" - a testament to Jim’s brilliance and Thiel’s outstanding manufacturing skills. Remarkable for a speaker designed in, when?, the mid 80s I assume - hopefully Tom can confirm the precise timeline.

And speaking of Tom, even though I try to keep up with the thread, I’m a little bit blurry on where things are with the upgrade packages he has been working on with Rob. I’m very keen to know where things are at as a 3.5 upgrade kit is very much on my horizon, albeit that I might buy it and wait for something to break on the current pair before installation. There’s something magical about having a speaker as the designer originally intended it, though I’m certain that Tom and Rob won’t release a kit until they know it offers something even more special.

Anyway that’s my update and I will of course be happy to answer any questions concerning the amplification etc and its application with the 3.5s.