The Best Isolation/ Vibration Footers per component - what's your experience?

gsal4 posts07-23-2020 12:02pm

Thanks for that. I tried this, and found that with the app on the highest sensitivity and the phone on top of the rack, there were barely noticeable squiggles with music playing. Suspended wooden floor, 2 heavy layers of soundproofing underneath thick carpet, cheap rack on castors about 18" away from nearest floor standing speaker. Either very small vibrations produce big differences, or need for isolation not as great as I thought. Or sound proofing acts as isolation and I don’t need to add isolation to my potential new rack.

I've experimented with several...Symposium Roller Block Jr, Rollerblock 2 +, Ingress Engineering (Canada), Voo Doo Iso Blocks, Still Points and Synergistic Research MIG's.  All components on 2" or 3" solid maple racks or stands, all with Symposium Svelte Shelf Plus under everything including Ethernet switches and LPS.  I found the Svelte Shelves to be a must....otherwise HF in my small listening room got way too "hot"....here's what I found....I love what the Stillpoints do under my pre amp and LPS, under amps and sources too much of a good thing.  I ended up with Ingress Eng. RollerBlock 2's (open faced) under monoblocks (detailed, great bass and smooth), Ingress Eng RollerBlocks (top & bottom piece) under REL Subs, Symposium Rollerblock JR under streamer and SR MIGs under both SR PowerCells.  I tried all styles under all pieces and this combo game me the best detail, focus and largest most open soundstage yet with great tonal density and musicality.  It's easy to swap out any footer and hear the difference.   Good stuff! 

A/V RoomService EVP (equipment vibration protectors) are very effective and less costly than most of the commercial products listed in this thread.

I haven't tried many of the products listed above but I've found the EVP to work well in all the applications I've tried.

Jim Smith (Get Better Sound), Tom Gibbs (Positive Feedback) and Neil Gader (TAS) have praised their performance in their systems. TAS 2020 Editors Choice Award for what it's worth.

Thanks everyone for responding and keeping this thread up and running. I haven't been able to respond to each of you with all great ideas. Ofcourse there is no problem in adding more vibration/ isolation brands to the list mentioned in the original post, just keep them coming for us all to know and learn more. Also great to see the thread expanding to other subjects in lowering the noise floor, such as the great ideas mentioned by Mahgister and Millercarbon. I understand that vibration/ isolation is only one of the solutions to improve sound. I have tried crystals and working on the acoustics as well. However, for now I am looking at vibration/ isolation footers before I will do more with crystals and acoustics. There is a lot to try and improve.

In addition, one of the things I am trying is removing the rack (I am using Artesania, with 3 levels) and see if the sound improves if the equipment is on the floor or at least closer to the floor. I have heard some experts say and also saw on Avshowrooms that it's better to have equipment as low as possible if it's positioned in the centre instead of being on the sides. A lot of us probably don't have dedicated listening rooms and prices of long cables lengths can be high, so putting equipment on the sides and further away from speakers is not always possible. Any more input from you guys on getting the equipment away from the soundstage?

A/V RoomService EVP (equipment vibration protectors) are very effective and less costly than most of the commercial products listed in this thread.I haven't tried many of the products listed above but I've found the EVP to work well in all the applications I've tried.Jim Smith (Get Better Sound), Tom Gibbs (Positive Feedback) and Neil Gader (TAS) have praised their performance in their systems. TAS 2020 Editors Choice Award for what it's worth.

Thanks for this. May I know under which components you have tried these?

I've experimented with several...Symposium Roller Block Jr, Rollerblock 2 +, Ingress Engineering (Canada), Voo Doo Iso Blocks, Still Points and Synergistic Research MIG's. All components on 2" or 3" solid maple racks or stands, all with Symposium Svelte Shelf Plus under everything including Ethernet switches and LPS. I found the Svelte Shelves to be a must....otherwise HF in my small listening room got way too "hot"....here's what I found....I love what the Stillpoints do under my pre amp and LPS, under amps and sources too much of a good thing. I ended up with Ingress Eng. RollerBlock 2's (open faced) under monoblocks (detailed, great bass and smooth), Ingress Eng RollerBlocks (top & bottom piece) under REL Subs, Symposium Rollerblock JR under streamer and SR MIGs under both SR PowerCells. I tried all styles under all pieces and this combo game me the best detail, focus and largest most open soundstage yet with great tonal density and musicality. It's easy to swap out any footer and hear the difference.  Good stuff!

Great sharing!

I have found similar results to yours.

• I also found that the Stillpoints works best under the LPS. I haven't tried the pre-amp yet, but will do. I tried the amps and sources, with Stillpoints, but it sounded very forward and not real, there was no music anymore.
  
• All components on 2" or 3" solid maple racks or stands, all with Symposium Svelte Shelf Plus under everything including Ethernet switches and LPS. >>> How do you this? You mean you have a Maple rack and on top of this you put a Symposium shelf as well? So, maple>symposium>equipment? Any pictures?

@vinylvalet , thanks for the EVP recommendation. Surprisingly, I have not heard of them before now and a search of these forums did not give me many responses. Interesting that they use (fiber) glass and rubber, which are typically not considered optimal for damping or isolation, and that they don’t discuss any differences between rubber or felt facing other than being able to slide one but not the other. I am impressed that they have actually measured the performance of their footers and that they have a white paper. I also appreciate the guidance on how these respond to different weights of equipment, similar to Herbies, Stillpoints, SRA, and other isolation/damping products. I suspect they would work well to isolate large speakers or subs that are supported on suspended wood floors. If I were starting over, I would give them a try.

You're welcome Mitch. I heard of them initially from Jim Smith of Get Better Sound, one of the best ears and setup guy on the planet. He uses them under all his components (at least, last time I visited with him) but was particularly impressed with the 4" square models under his subwoofers. He said, "“I was frankly amazed – especially at the huge improvement from my REL 212 SE subs. Countless audiophiles said that the bass here was the best, most natural they ever heard” That's serious praise from a guy who can get pretty much anything he wants.
You're absolutely correct about suspended wood floors. I never understood why on earth anyone would couple speakers or subs to a large diaphragm. A friend of mine in Little Rock had exactly the same situation with large, expensive ProAC speakers with a mega Naim system. Going from direct coupling to the 4" HD EVPs under the ProAcs was a game changer. Icing on the cake was that when he played music loud, it was less annoying for his wife since the sound level was decreased significantly in the rest of the house; all that energy was no longer coupled into the structure. There is still an improvement on on concrete slabs but to a much lesser extent. I also like the value proposition; much less expensive than the shiny stuff. The only product that I've compared these with are Herbies, a noticeable improvement. With that said, in certain applications, Herbies Tenderfeet are a super value, especially for those on a very limited budget.

I just ordered a set of Revopods to try under my turntable. I'll circle back and let everyone know how it goes.

@vinylvalet , I suspect the differences between Herbies products and EVP would be less for lower weight components and would also depend on the rack/platform the component sits on.  I use a variety of aftermarket footers from Herbies, edenSound, and Stillpoint, and my components all sit on Zoethecus Z-slabs supported in a heavily braced wood cabinet, except for my 70-pound amps that are each supported on a purpose-calibrated SRA Ohio-Class XL+² isoBASE™ over a low profile heavy Sound Anchor stand spiked to the underlying concrete floor. 
My two heavy subwoofers are also supported on Sound Anchor stands that are spiked to the concrete floor, but I would be interested in hearing any differences that might result from using the EVP footers under the subs.  I suppose I could sit them directly on the carpet over the concrete.  Unfortunately, $105 x 4 per sub seems a bit steep when what I am using seems to work just fine now.

I agree. You've done a great job with your system. I also agree that the 4" EVPs aren't as good a value as the 2" ones. I'm guessing with everything you've already done with your subs, there may be an improvement but it probably would be minimal, not worth the additional expense.

The 1.3m system would be Definitive Audio and as noted is oft random and structureless.  Had a roommate who loved to stick Maggies, Luxman pre/amps and turntable in a 9'X12'X8' space and let her fly.  All great components, just not there.

The isolation thing is a dark art.  I've tossed it all for a couple of Quadraspire Reference X two shelf stands.  It works, it's simple and I no longer tinker with any more isolation tweaks.  Is it the best?  Don't know, don't care.  Sounds great, I'm done.

just ordered a set of Revopods to try under my turntable. I’ll circle back and let everyone know how it goes.

Great, thanks! I was thinking of this myself, but probably for the pre-amp or amplifier, since the Centerstage are even more expensive. I think that either of these will also relatively keep their market value if it does not work.

@millercarbon

I found this on your page 

This is why The System looks the way it does. It is extremely difficult to make a rack as good as no rack, ie the floor. A rack puts everything up high closer to ear level and reflects sound more because its all in one block. So The System is mostly on the floor, and with components at differing height and spacing the components diffuse more than reflect. This also provides for shorter and more direct cabling with greater isolation between signal and power cables. 

This is all very interesting. I think a lot more must be going on if a rack, any rack, is placed in the centre instead of the sides of the room. Especially if the rack has more than 2 levels. I also have the Get Better Sound book and it was recommended to put all or most of the gear on the side walls. Unfortunately, this wouldn’t work in a normal living room space especially if you live in HK. Hence, it might be that placing everything on single platforms with 1 level only would already improve the soundstage instead of using racks. I am currently using Artesania Audio, but it might be that even this brand or more expensive will always decrease the soundstage.

I recently bought eight Isoacoustics Orea Indigos for my Devore O/93's. 
They made a huge difference, but not one I liked. Things sounded spacey and disconnected. It was fun to listen to, and my bass both tightened up but became much less extended. One of the strangest things I have ever encountered in 40 years with the hobby. 
Last night on a pure whim, seeing my eight footers just sitting on a nearby table in an adjoining room, I placed four under my ARC Ref 150SE amp and four under my Ref 6 preamp. Please note that my amp is already sitting on a massive 80lb butcher block and my preamp is sitting on a top of the line Symposium rack. Wow. The change was more subtle than the change placing them under my loudspeakers but this time they were all positive. The bass tightened up but it was all there this time. The soundstage widened and deepened. I even gained some imaging-which is not the strong suit of these excellent loudspeakers. I was going to return the Orea Indigos. Now, I don't think so. I will likely remove them from the preamp for a while, and then replace them under the preamp and remove them from the amp to see if the benefit is mostly from one or the other. 
Yes, I have tried just about every type you can imagine. Stillpoints, Mag-Levs, solid panzerholz wood blocks, various carbon fiber cones...
I am very impressed by Isoacoustics at the moment. 

The bass tightened up but it was all there this time. The soundstage widened and deepened. I even gained some imaging-which is not the strong suit of these excellent loudspeakers. I was going to return the Orea Indigos. Now, I don’t think so. I will likely remove them from the preamp for a while, and then replace them under the preamp and remove them from the amp to see if the benefit is mostly from one or the other.
Yes, I have tried just about every type you can imagine. Stillpoints, Mag-Levs, solid panzerholz wood blocks, various carbon fiber cones...
I am very impressed by Isoacoustics at the moment.

How did the Stillpoints work for you? Which did you try and where? In general, the Stillpoints are still reviewed better, but are more sensitive to placement.

How did the Stillpoints work for you? Which did you try and where? In general, the Stillpoints are still reviewed better, but are more sensitive to placement.

They are every bit as good, maybe better. Just very expensive. I kept one set, which are under my Garrard 301 as you can see in my profile. 

From what I’ve researched, the Critical Mass Center Stage 2 seem to be the best by a significant amount. For most positive reviews I’d expect perceivable, good, very good, and the very rare great, after around 10 days of declined performance, the system settles to a WoW (sorry, had to choose some descriptor)! Now I equate their descriptions as at least to the level of a major component upgrade. At say around $1k per set, is the component upgrade worth it? At $5k for 5 component upgrades, some would say this is a bargain.

Yeah, I know for some of you this may sound like abstract dribble, but if you get what I’m trying to communicate, then maybe you’ll benefit... or not ...

+1 for AVRoomService EVTs. Jim Smith knows what he's talking about. If I hadn't already bought some other iso products for most components I would have many more than the 8 I purchased. The effects were instantly recognizable.

I use a combination of isolation for my system. Under server: Stillpoints Ultra 6's / amp: Critical Mass Black Diamond shelf & Center Stage footers (4) / Under speakers: Nordost SortFut / REL subs: Arya Audio RevOpods / Under conditioner, grounding station and other conditioning products: Ultra 6's and Nordost SortKones (TC).  

I have mixed and matched all of the combinations possible with these products and have my preferences.  

I find the SortKones (TC) and the RevOpods equally effective with the RevOpods being warmer and the SortKones (TC) being a little more detailed. SortKones are tall and components tend to slide around a lot. RevOpods are much shorter but also have a hard surface on the narrow end (component side) so components will slide around if pushed or not handled carefully. If space (height) is an issue, the RevOpods will be more accommodating .

The Stillpoints Ultra 6's and the Center Stage footers were far more effective than the above. The Ultra 6's are extremely detailed, focused and somewhat analytical. The center Stage footers (1" & 1.5") are just as detailed but add a warmth and realness that the Ultra 6's don't. The holographic layering of the soundstage with the CS footers is spooky good. After talking with other Critical Mass owners and dealers I decided to add a Critical Mass shelf to the mix. Using the shelf in conjunction with the CS footers was cumulative and by far the best I have ever heard under a component. I plan to add 1 more CM shelf and 4 more CS footers.....Critical Mass is ridiculously expensive but nothing comes close to what their products can do for your system.  

I use a combination of isolation for my system. Under server: Stillpoints Ultra 6's / amp: Critical Mass Black Diamond shelf & Center Stage footers (4) / Under speakers: Nordost SortFut / REL subs: Arya Audio RevOpods / Under conditioner, grounding station and other conditioning products: Ultra 6's and Nordost SortKones (TC).  

I have mixed and matched all of the combinations possible with these products and have my preferences.  

I find the SortKones (TC) and the RevOpods equally effective with the RevOpods being warmer and the SortKones (TC) being a little more detailed. SortKones are tall and components tend to slide around a lot. RevOpods are much shorter but also have a hard surface on the narrow end (component side) so components will slide around if pushed or not handled carefully. If space (height) is an issue, the RevOpods will be more accommodating .

The Stillpoints Ultra 6's and the Center Stage footers were far more effective than the above. The Ultra 6's are extremely detailed, focused and somewhat analytical. The center Stage footers (1" & 1.5") are just as detailed but add a warmth and realness that the Ultra 6's don't. The holographic layering of the soundstage with the CS footers is spooky good. After talking with other Critical Mass owners and dealers I decided to add a Critical Mass shelf to the mix. Using the shelf in conjunction with the CS footers was cumulative and by far the best I have ever heard under a component. I plan to add 1 more CM shelf and 4 more CS footers.....Critical Mass is ridiculously expensive but nothing comes close to what their products can do for your system.  

Hi @ron17, thanks for sharing your feedback with us.

Some interesting things you mention there. I am going for best sound quality and for me that is realism and making the speakers and all components disappear as much as possible. Sometimes that mean maybe less detail or more or less warmth for instance.

You are saying that the Revopods sound warm and what I could find online is that Hifi + is saying "Irrespective of the component they're holding up, the Revopods give the soundstage extra depth and definition. Voices are more resonant and more like the real thing. The individual instrument sections in an orchestra are more clearly defined an delineated." Would you say you agree with these findings? Could you also share with which components you used them besides the sub and what you heard?

For Centerstage 2 footers PF mentions "The resultant stillness this afforded, by way of a darker, starker, background, was just intoxicating, adding a power and persuasiveness to everything I played, allowing me to be informed as much by the silence between musical impulses as by the effortless drive and pace of the musical gestalt itself. Instrumental tone colors, including their textures and verve, had bloomed. There was a newfound effortlessness and neutrality to every aspect of the music I played now" Also here, would you agree with these findings and under which components did you try them?

It's interesting, it seems that on more Western forums (e.g. whatsbestforum) they tend to lean towards the Centerstage 2 footers as best performers. Whereas on Eastern forums (e.g. Audio Exotics) they say that Revopods bested the Centerstage 2 footers. 


 

@richardhk

I got the RevOpods specifically for my 2 REL subs. I couldn't find a footer with the screw size that would accommodate the thread of the REL. I wanted to use Nordost SortFut (I use them on my main speakers) but Nordost didn't have a screw size to fit the REL's. I thought about Stillpoints Ultra 5's (they had the correct screw size) but I didn't want to spend that much on 8 footers (2 subs). A dealer who I have been working with for years had just become an Arya Audio distributor/dealer and was begging me to try them. He sent me a set to demo not only on my sub but he wanted me to try them on every component. My Innuos ZENith mk2 se music server is the most sensitive component I own and most telling of power cord, USB and footer changes, so that was the component I did my testing on. I tried 4 different footers under it for 5-10 days (each footer set). Nordost SortKones (TC) / RevOpods / Ultra 6's / Center Stage2 footers.

First of all I found each one of these footers improved the focus, imaging, detail and soundstage. In my system I preferred some over others. Every system is different and has different tuning needs. The quotes on RevOpods and Center Stage2 footers sound like what I heard in my system. 'Intoxicating' would be an accurate word to describe the Center Stage2 footers. In my system I thought the SortKones and the RevOpods were equal with slightly different tonal characteristics....SortKones being a little more detailed and the RevOpods being a little warmer.

I found the Ultra 6's and Center Stage footers a class above the RevOpods and SortKones. If your system is warm and tube like I could see you preferring Ultra 6's. If your system is neutral I could see one preferring Center Stage2's....again what you prefer will be based on your room, components, musical taste and what tonal qualities you desire.

One brand of footer might work well in my system and not be ideal in yours. I recommend finding a dealer that will let you borrow a set or two to demo in your system. Good luck finding a Critical Mass dealer that will let you do that (I couldn't find one). If you PM me I will give you the name of my dealer who sells Nordost, Stillpoints and RevOpods. You might be able to demo a set of RevOpods in your system.

First of all I found each one of these footers improved the focus, imaging, detail and soundstage. In my system I preferred some over others. Every system is different and has different tuning needs. The quotes on RevOpods and Center Stage2 footers sound like what I heard in my system. ’Intoxicating’ would be an accurate word to describe the Center Stage2 footers. In my system I thought the SortKones and the RevOpods were equal with slightly different tonal characteristics....SortKones being a little more detailed and the RevOpods being a little warmer.

I found the Ultra 6’s and Center Stage footers a class above the RevOpods and SortKones. If your system is warm and tube like I could see you preferring Ultra 6’s. If your system is neutral I could see one preferring Center Stage2’s....again what you prefer will be based on your room, components, musical taste and what tonal qualities you desire.

One brand of footer might work well in my system and not be ideal in yours. I recommend finding a dealer that will let you borrow a set or two to demo in your system. Good luck finding a Critical Mass dealer that will let you do that (I couldn’t find one). If you PM me I will give you the name of my dealer who sells Nordost, Stillpoints and RevOpods. You might be able to demo a set of RevOpods in your system.

Thanks for this. I don’t live in the US, I am in Hong Kong (HK) hence why I started this thread for us all to learn more. Unfortunately, most/ almost all dealers won’t demo anything in anyone’s system. Sometimes they’re even reluctant to let you hear what a component does in a system. Most people here therefore rely on reviews and trying/ buying it for themselves and reselling if it doesn’t work out as they would like.

I think I might try the Revopods first and then the Centerstage 2 footers, given the price difference. Also the Revopods may retain their demand and value now here in HK, so it might be easier to resell and then try the Centerstage.

Sometimes I think most ppl here are crazy and that makes me sad. I had high hopes!

It's all in your head! Putting footers under your amp or cd player does not make a difference.

Science = if something can't be measured it ain't true! 

"Science = if something can't be measured it ain't true!"

That's ridiculous, measure what I am thinking right now and then now and now ... I guess nothing I am thinking is true huh?

Rubber bands to the rescue.  Get better sound and stay sane.

If you have not removed the factory feet on a component, you might want to experiment with different size rubber bands.  Twist and fold them so that they are secure on the sides of each foot.  If you have a fairly resolving system, you will hear a difference! The next step is to put rubber bands around speaker and interconnect terminals, whether in use or not.  Treat all of them.  Then move to the control dials or toggle switches on your components. 

My favorites are black, thin, and the size of a dime. $1 at the Dollar Store.

Enjoy the fruit of your labor.  (No measurement needed.)

Solid-Tec is pretty good, but it is a huge pain to buy in the USA. I have been waiting for 2 racks for ever. It will be 4 months in Jan 16 2022, when I was told 2 weeks.

In the EU is slightly different. 

I am impressed with the CenterStage 2 footers. They have given my system a "total face-lift". The improvement in clarity across the sound spectrum from highs to lows was remarkable. Moreover, they provided increased "oomph" perception because of the effect on leading and trailing notes and the recording environment. Using the 1" footers under the tube amp made the greatest difference. In the past, I've used IsoAcoustics, Tip Toes, Herbies, and Maple Shade products. The CenterStage 2 footers allowed me to hear the synergy of my components for the first-time.

Yes, I am saving my money to purchase a set of 1" CenterStage 2M footers to go under my Linear Tube ZOTL Reference 40+ amp. Then, the fun will be deciding where to place the 1" CenterStage 2 footers.

My modestly-priced system - LTA MZ3 preamp and Reference 40+ amp, LUMIN U1 Mini with Booster power supply, PS Audio P20 and DSD, Oppo 105D, and Tekton Double Impact speakers. As well, there are DIY sound panels for room treatments. 

As always, YMWV based upon your component/cabling/room synergy.

Happy Listening to all!

Marigo Audio Mystery Feet bettered the CM2 footers from Critical Mass on my DAC and didn’t have to go through the 2 week settling period. Lower noise floor, better dynamics and overall musicality.

-Alex

@rareace

I had the similar results as yours albeit with Harmonix’s TU-333EX Tuning Insulators.

@lalitk I inserted Marigo's new Orpheus platforms as well under the footers and further improvements to detail and noise floor. Amazing combo!

-Alex

I see below that a couple of years ago I was considering EVPs and other decoupling methods.  I have since stumbled on damped springs and believe they do a very good job of isolation, particularly with large loudspeakers but also with individual components.  I have taken a three part approach to my equipment isolation, first having a very solid and heavy base, whether a heavily reinforced wooden equipment rack or something even more solid like a steel Sound Anchor stand.  Second, provide a damping platform such as the constrained layer Zoethecus Z-slabs I use under my electronics, the SRA stands I use under my amplifiers, or the thick wood platforms I use under my preamp and volume control.  Finally, third use some sort of decoupling footer such as damped springs or something similar to EVPs or Herbies, or just plain sorbothane, which are all elastic and a type of spring.  Under speakers, it is a heavy damped platform (Sound Anchor stands, which are damped with sand filling) and then decoupling using damped springs.  The key to decoupling with springs is to have an appropriately matched spring for the weight supported, and to provide some form of damping such as a thin membrane around the spring or perhaps foam inside the spring.  While some things do cost money, such as the Sound Anchor stands, Z-slabs, and SRA platforms that I use - reinforcing/bracing of wooden equipment racks, constrained layer platforms, EVP type footers (made from Owens Corning materials), sorbothane, and/or damped springs can be implemented at a comparatively low cost.  This stuff doesn't need to be overly expensive, and just spending a lot of money doesn't guarantee the best results. 

You have omitted what in my experience are the world's two best from your list:

-Dalby Audio

-Wellfloat

 

 

 

 

@rareace : Agreed. Marigo Audio vibration control products are outstanding. I've been a very satisfied customer for over 20 years. Jeff

Interesting discussion. About a year ago I bought the Symposium Segue Iso for my turntable and was very impressed. Wanting to learn more about spring isolation, I read very interesting comments regarding Townshend products and eventually bought a set of Podiums for my stand mount speakers. Have never experienced this level of improvement due to any tweak or modifications. So this brings me to today where I recently added the Townshend Platform for my Simaudio 650D cdp. I am having a difficult time finding footers now that do not cause a strange resonance or frequency anomaly. First used Symposium Rollerblock 2+ and sound became very strident in the midrange. Then replaced these with cork/rubber Isolpads and things sounded much better but maybe a little softer muted. So pull out some Polycrystal cones that I’ve kept all these years and tried for a short time but went back to the Isolpads because the midrange was still not right. 
I am just curious what others have used.