The awful truth about CDs, do they have the same shelve life as LP's ?
The answer is properly not. Recent studies have shown that the chemicals used in their manufacture of CDs have reduced their life expectancy to ten years, not all but many, as per Paul Mcgowans email. The suggestion was given that if you have suspect CD's they should be re-copied. But my question is how do you identify these? I can tell you that I have a great deal of LPs and I can play anyone of these with great success and some are 40 years old. This no doubt would give some audiophiles another good reason to hold onto their belief that LPs are the way to go.
"CDs had one thing right, they were going to last forever. Now, studies show that may not always be the case.
"At issue is the fact that optical media uses a combination of different chemicals and manufacturing processes. That means that while the data storage and basic manufacturing of a disc are standardized, the particulars of how it was fabricated aren’t. Particular makes and particular batches are subject to different aging characteristics. And with some of these failures occurring in less than ten years, we’re finding out just how susceptible discs are outside of lab test conditions.
"In short, these flaws appear to be fairly widespread.
"THE PROBLEM CAN BE TRACED BACK TO USING FAULTY DYES WHICH CAN CAUSE DISC FAILURE IN UNDER TEN YEARS. (emphasis mine)
And part of the problem is there’s no way to know which process your disc might have. My advice? Start ripping the CDs that really matter to you.
"Once ripped to a hard drive and backed up, your library should be safe. Playback can happen through any number of devices."
tomcy6 again: It is clear that McGowan is talking about cd-rs, although he doesn’t say that and he should have made that clear so that people like phd wouldn’t be confused. Dyes are only used in cd-rs.
I disagree with him that these flaws are widespread. I have many, many cd-rs recorded over many years from many different brands and batches of cd-rs, and only a few cd-rs have had any problem. The most common problem is bronzing. If you have a cd-r that starts turning brown, copy it to another cd-r or rip it to a hard drive.
I have been doing my own cd-r test. I bought some cheap generic cd-rs, recorded on them and have left them in my truck where temperatures range from well over 100 degrees to below freezing. That was over 15 years ago and they all still play just fine.
The key to cd-r longevity is to keep them out of daylight, especially direct sunlight. A cardboard box will do just fine. With a little care, cd-rs will outlive you with no problem.
CD is dead...according to much of the mainstream audio press. Could it be that most music buyers have filled their collections with every CD title that appeals to them? Now the music industry wants us all to support download music and music servers and abandon the CD as a medium. Is that in our best interest, or theirs? Abandon one medium in favor of another- why does that sound so familiar? For the answer, just take a look at how stores like Best Buy and Barnes and Noble have reduced their CD space and ramped up their vinyl selection. It’s marketing, folks...marketing!
I have well over 1,000 commercially produced CDs , many of them from the early to mid 1980s. I have not encountered any issue with CD deterioration.
On very rare occasions I have had tracking problems with a NEW CD, which I believe result from manufacturing flaws. But this is a very different issue.
Nobody mentioned "laser rot" which is where the hype started I think. Laser discs(video) that preceded CDs had issues due to poor manufacturing. Impurities in between the layers caused deterioration that rendered the discs unplayable. The big culprits were the "LaserVision" brand as I recall. I still have a few of them. Joe
I have bought CD's since the beginning of the format and have about 3,000 of the things. A handful (4 or 5) have, indeed, deteriorated to the point they are unplayable. Interestingly, all save one are Hyperion products. All of the bad ones exhibited bronzing on the label side (the once silver color turned to a copper or bronze hue).
The most recent casualty came to my attention about a week ago: Hyperion CDA 66423 (The Marriage of Heaven and Hell by Gothic Voices). This is a 1990 recording that I bought new about the time of its release. Last Sunday I picked it off the shelf for the first time in many years. My old but reliable Eastern Electric MiniMax CD player could not load it, nor could I load it on my MacBook Pro.
Have had over one thousand CDs through my collection and currently 700-800. I've run across one CD that didn't want to play but I ripped it to my drive and burned another copy and the CDR plays fine. It was from Monty Python's - The Final Ripoff. The other was the Subdudes - Lucky. I've heard several different copies and they both had pinholes in different places. Just get a skip here or there but they play fine.
All that being said, this talk of a shelf life seems very overblown. All my other CDs play just fine and none of my friends have reported CD failures. If you don't use them for coasters you should reasonably expect them to last well beyond your life. I have plenty of CDs from the beginning and they play fine. I don't believe the hype, seems some have an axe to grind or an agenda to put forth. Don't waste your time worrying about this topic, is should be dead; the topic not your precious CDs. Now, go buy some more CDs.
Having ripped ~2,000 CD's using dBpoweramp with its Accurip comparison tool, I have had very few that were not bit-perfect matches to everyone else's out there. That seems like pretty good preservation. When one does run afoul, it almost always shows some mistreatment damage to the surface (I have purchased a lot of used CD's from a wide variety of sources).
I'd say the news is way over-hyped, possibly even misleading with an agenda?
The main difference between LP and CD longevity to me, is that damaged or worn LP cannot be repaired, while less than perfect CD can be recovered/renewed by ripping software and recorded onto CD-R. Longevity of CD-R depends on the photosensitive dye used. Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs have 100 years warranty. It is also possible to make backup of CDs on HD. Backup for LPs is not possible.
I have had a few go bad (out of thousands). was curious if the initial statement meant that current CD's are being made much differently than the older ones...
While my response does not directly address the question posed by this thread title, and despite the fact this thread belongs in the digital (or analog) area as opposed to amplifiers and many on this thread - including myself - have already weighed in on this subject, I’d like to provide the link to the thread where I do state CDs are subject to problems, one of which is "pinholes".
Succinctly, I do not believe CD longevity is as great as it is typically purported to be. The material(s) itself wears out and often renders portions of the disk inaudible as the reflective layer "evaporates" and the laser is unable to read the data. Virtually no storage and/or handling modification can prevent this.
The story about CD's going 'bad' goes from the old radio days. When the radio stations moved from vinyl to CD, they do't use the jewel boxes, so they were writing tags with sharpies. The acid from the ink is what caused the damage to the CDs.
Agreed. Have been hearing this drivel every 5 years or so for the last 25 years. I must have over 5000 CDs and have never have one go bad. 'Basta' already as the godfather might say.
randy11, this is the first time you offered an intelligent answer, congradulations on that. Basically you are calling Paul Mcgowan dumb because this is his statement.
gocubs999, thorough research is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm starting to feel better already about my CDs. Who in the hell brought up this subject matter anyway/
"Among the manufacturers that have done testing, there is consensus that, under recommended storage conditions, CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs should have a life expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more; CD-RW, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD-RAM discs should have a life expectancy of 25 years or more".
Certainly a much greater shelf life than FAKE News. Thorough research is the way to go.
Now wait a minute. CD's were billed as "Perfect Sound Forever" back around 1982. I know they aren't "perfect", especially the old ones from the early '80's. Are you telling me that are also not FOREVER? That would double suck.........
I have a number of cds that are 30 years old and I haven’t had one go bad yet. You really don’t need to spread this urban legend that goes around every couple of years to justify your preference for vinyl.
Just for your information, lps can be ruined if not handled properly or played on a poorly set up turntable.
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