I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
If your question is how do the DI's compare to the VSA VR-33's I can shed some light on that as I own both. The 33's took forever to break in--almost sent them back. But after 300hr they evolved into a very nice speaker. Easy to drive, they sound very nice with tubes or SS. The BIG advantage for some is that this speaker was designed to sound great up against the front wall. So in some situations this is a big advantage. I have them in a large open room and they sound far better with a seated position towards the rear of the room. This is not a speaker that sounds great in near field applications. They really open up when there is more reflected sound
The DI's however best the 33's in just about every other respect. The DI's are a bit more dynamic, have better clarity and detail, have much better impact in the bass and midbass. I would never listen to the DI's up against the front wall. Pulled well out into the room and maximizing first arrival information they image beautifully and outclass the 33's here too.
Both these speakers are excellent values for the money. The 33's have have fewer higher quality drivers and a much better dead cabinet. But the DI's, despite their economy cabinet, win out overall. Driver quality is good to very good--but the key to the great sound is in the driver implementation/tweeter array.
OMG, I can not believe that I am responding for the first time to this particular thread. When I clicked "last" I expected page 8, not 52... I too am looking to replace my current speakers.
Currently, I am using the Decware 945's with the midrange option.
Love them, however, I can not crank the volume to a point where they can be fully "present".
I am using a Cary SLI-50 (EL-34 based amp - VERY nice tubes currently in it...) w "bla bla la" whatever in front as far as TT and phono stage goes
Here's my thing. It starts w the recording/pressing. The cartridge interprets that. Then there is a bunch of translation between the cartridge and the speakers.
As you get money, you change the bits in between.
With limited budget - divorce - I have to be careful w how I move forward with my audio therapy.
I have been looking to replace the Decwares w Harbeth 30's. The Cary w a "modern" C22 and one of their SS amp's. The TT can wait as I want to do a Lenco DIY Corian plinth TT. PS, pending tone of TT.
These speakers are getting some seriously great reviews.
I have a friend who is running a C2600 through some MC75's into a pair of Von Schweikert speaker - model number I forget - but they are WAY up the evolutionary ladder. And OMG do they sound great.
Would greatly appreciate some input as I am not necessarily a newbee to figuring out what kind of sound i like, but I have been out of the game for a long time and I have limited, albeit reasonable, resources.
Nice quote. Volume should likewise be different depending on the recording. Acoustic jazz trio in a club versus rock at a large venue. The illusion that you're there when you close your eyes.
I believe there are two kinds of audiophiles:those who use components to listen to music,and those who use music to listen to components. quoted from: AHC the absolute sound.My reference is live music. ALLEN THE VOLUME KING.
Hi Cal, You are welcome. Despite my Frankenstein MK II having only an 8 and 16 ohm speaker taps it did sound marvelous driving the 4 ohm Double Impacts. It does make me wonder that the current Frankenstein with 4 ohm taps would very likely improve the quality of sounnd even further. Charles
Jetter, You are right regarding the popularly of the Dyna ST 70 amplifiers, Yes modification can improve them up to a certain point, agreed. I didn’t have the difficulties with mine as Muzikrav experienced. My only point is that you can proceed "-far" beyond the scope of what the Dynaco has to offer . I believe that Kenny was making this same observation as well.
The Dyna ST 70 is very affordable and allows one to experiment with various upgrade projects and learn but IMO it has limitations compared to other options. I would say it does have a nice midrange but has obvious weaknesses in bass and upper frequencies, and other areas.
You can go further with better quality tube power amplifiers, much further. I would not use this amplifier as an adequate example when comparing the merits of what tubes provide sonically versus solid state amplifiers. Charles
Just wanted to thank Charles and Mac for running exactly the listening experiment I wanted to read about from my comments earlier in the thread. Much appreciated... and a lovely thread all around. Super informative.
The LTA Zotl 40 is my opinion like a blank canvas in sound and most definitely can be voiced in several ways but Offcourse can only be taken so far and some folks may still a preference in a warmer,meatier midrange.
I use 1966 Mullard xf2's el34 with either rca 5751's or brimar 6060 in the 12ax7 input differential pair.I have found no difference in sound by changing the phase splitter 12au7's.
This combo gives me plenty of meat on the bones in the mids equal to like eating baby back ribs instead of the big fat spare ribs that I don't like as well.😋
I tried the gold lion kt77's but I didn't care for them at all and I have a new quad of the Sophia electric el-34's but I haven't tried them yet.
I mainly listen to my little consonance 2a3 set and I'm patiently waiting for my Aric audio custom 2a3 to be built.
The Zotl 40 just like my FW sit is going nowhere they are both that good and I consider them to be keepers.
@mazikrav - "Only a bottom feeder’s personal journey. It might be interesting to hear how others have reached the rarified air of electronics worthy of Tekton Design."
Actually, aside from the comments about the Dynaco 70, I think this thread shows you can use just about any amp with the Double Impacts and get respectful sound. For instance, I tried a cheap Chinese SET with my Impact Monitors and was very pleased with what I heard.
Jetter, when I had the ST 70 I was pleased at the beginning, but soon the tubes degenerated, the caps (or whaever) began to crackle and I had i rebuilt. Unfortunately, that only revealed a cerain dullness at the top and a mush at the bottom. My dog once burned himself on the tubes and I never could keep he doggon thing biased. I knew how popular it is and how many folks have modded it for love or money, At that point, however, I decided that the amp was a means and not an end. So I tried a Bryston B-60 and lived with it's flat harshness for a couple o years. Finally I read Nelson Pass's articles about "the first watt and that's my story to date. The closest I've gotten to anything electronic was changing the caps on an old pair of Spica TC-50's which I gave to Eric Alexander to excite his curiousity. (BTW the ST-70's had a bad habit of burning tweeters on my Paragon Jubilees which are still languishing at Aris Audio here in Salt Lake City.
Only a bottom feeder's personal journey. It might be interesting to hear how others have reached the rarified air of electronics worthy of Tekton Design.
Charles, thanks for your confirmation of Kenny's recommendations. Do you (or anyone) have first hand experience with the Lyngdorf 2170? It seems that this Danish firm also sells a stand alone amp without the equalization doo-dads, or am I off base.
I envy you folkis who are able to trade gear, but coveting is one of the Big Ten
Oh no, I did not mean that we folk are everywhere. I myself only have one friend who is a believer in what we do. He has a WAF that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But that's a different story.
I was referencing how this hobby has endless possibilities with every move we make in pursuit of excellent sound reproduction.
Dynaco ST 70, the largest selling tube amp of all time. Still being used and modded by thousands if not 10s of thousands. A purity of tone all its own.
I agree with you that design breakthroughs can bring gear up to another level, and is the foundation for audio advancement.
As we acquire different equipment either purchased or auditioned, it is an evaluation process for each of us to decide which pieces are a hit or miss, and also how to extract all the potential from a worthy candidate.
At the time Charles heard my system I was running Marconi BL 63's ( with adapters) and Brimar 12AT7 yellow T labels. I'm now running the TungSol 12SN7 round plates with Sylvania Gold Brand double mica 12AT's. Sound quality is quite similar and I can put the cover on the MZ2 with the TungSols in it.
I thought the sound difference between driving the DI's with the MZ2 alone and using the MZ2 as a pre driving the Frankensteins was quite dramatic. I'd describe the MZ2 sound as very pure and clean, which I like. But compared to the Frank's that purity seemed as if the music was stripped of texture, density and weight. I can see where some might prefer that lean, pure sound but I preferred the more weighty sound of the Frank's. I'll be getting teajay's Cyber 30 2A3 SET today and the Aric Audio Transcend KT 120 SET in a couple of weeks to experiment with what sound I like better. I have high hopes that Aric's amp will sing with Eric's speakers.
LP - Once you get to a certain level of performance you begin to realize literally everything in your system can make a difference in perceived sound quality. However, fundamental design improvements (such as the Tekton tweeter array) is what propels this hobby forward IMO. I could tweek all day long and never get a normal set of speakers to sound like these.
One of the things that fascinates me about this hobby is how ubiquitous it is.
I purchased a Musical Fidelity A5 disc spinner early 2016. My impression with limited experience with CD players was it was good but had a deal breaker flaw. It had a lighter, leaner lower mid-range which seems somewhat similar to some of the recent opinions of the LTA gear.
With a lot of Herbie's isolation products, along with excellent additional advice on DIY efforts (I'm not referring to parts upgrade, which I never learned enough about to venture into that realm) the player truly is balanced from top to bottom with excellent richness.
The final piece which took it from frustratingly close to a proper musical piece for me was with the addition of their tiny CD mat. No give and take which was my experience with another mat, only give what was still needed.
Of course my efforts with this player would not exactly coincide with amplification. However, so much can be done for equipment just in the areas of isolation, acoustics, tube rolling, and if you have the skill, part upgrades, etc.
So much to consider when we evaluate the many forks in the audio road.
"The LTA kit is very responsive to tube rolling and they can be 'warmed/richened' up with alternate tube choices"
Right, when I was turning to the Manufacturer Comments I was thinking Urban HiFi would say Herb Reichert should have rolled in different sounding tubes or they will send him different tubes. I actually give them credit for not doing that. I understand, and agree (especially a preamp section), can sound much different with "better" tubes.
Correct, no way suggesting the MZ2-S is not good, just that it had its specific sonic character traits which contrast to familiar components that I currently own. Charles
Thanks Charles. Helps a lot. Especially when you describe the MZ2-S as having a lighter, leaner, less tonal fullness/richness or color saturation/vividness than your Coincident equipment. I've heard Coincident used in a number of systems and was always impressed with its realistic presentation. Doesn't mean LTA is bad or wrong just probably not what I would prefer.
If you are going to be a good reviewer you have to call it as you hear it. I believe that most people will appreciate and respect the honesty whether they agree with the revierwer's impressions or not. Every component has a sonic character, I'm unaware of any dead neutral audio components.
Regarding Linear Tube Audio I don't know if there is a "house sound" throughout their line or not. My listening experience is only with the MZ2-S as an integrated amplifier and used as a preamplifier in Tom's and my system. It has a clear,fast and detailed sound presentation. Relative to the Coincident components the MZ2-S has a lighter and leaner sound character, less tonal fullness or harmonic richness. Overall less weight and color saturation/vividness.
It will be a matter of which type of presentation someone is seeking. Charles
Speaking of tubes, just got in the new TAS (#276). Harley did a review of the Berning 211/845 monobloc amplifier (a cool $75,000/pair). Called it the "finest amplifier I’ve ever heard". No mushy rolled off classic tube sound here with "superb bass, wide dynamics, and stunning resolution and transparency". 60 watts of Class A triode tube power with zero feedback. This is his best ZOTL design yet, according to Harley-
What is this groups general take on Herb Reichert’s (Stereophile) review of the Linear Tube Audio ZOTL40 Mk.II? He didn’t pull any punches which is refreshing, frankly. Overall, he thought it was a nice sounding amp but overpriced and a little lean even with the LTA preamp in front of it. He preferred a PrimaLuna amp/preamp combo. Urban HiFi didn’t argue much in the Manufacturer Comments but you could tell was a little taken back. I haven’t heard the ZOTL40 MK.II so I can’t really comment but I was surprised when I read the review last night.
Kenny, Agree with your comment regarding the Dyna 70 tube amplifiers, I had one years ago. In all candor it cannot honestly be mentioned in the same breath as the higher tier well executed tube amplifiers I've owned/heard subsequently. It is very far down in the pecking order 😊. Mushy bass it certainly had, this amplifier is the antithesis of my Coincident Frankenstein. Charles
Hello Mazikrav, Kenny provided you with excellent recommendations given your stated listening biases. Kenny sent me his First Watt S.I.T. 40 watt push pull amplifier and I've had the pleasure of using it the past few weeks. It is simply a terrific effort by Nelson Pass, pure class A design. It is one of the very best sounding solid state amplifiers I've heard (and that is a large number believe me). Unassuming appearance but fabulous sound quality is my summary of it.
If I were to go down the transistor amplifier pathway this First Watt would be near the top of a very short and selected list. I believe that this particular amplifier or something quite similar to it would make you happy and utterly satisfied. I also believe that you'd love the Pass Labs XA 30.8 as Kenny mentioned above. Charles
You're a real treasure!!!!! I'll keep your post for reference over the next months and find a way to research all the options. No questions right now. I'm too busy listening and saving money. But next year......
If all you have ever heard in tube land is a mushy old dynaco then you have no idea how good they can be,but I will say no more unless you ask and I will lead you to a F7 which I think would be a logical stepup in a slightly more open sound but still retaining plenty of that 3rd order sound you like and may also have a sweeter top end and slightly better control of the bass. The 30.8 is very nice also but is big,heavy,and puts of more heat than a first watt and probably is a little overkill for you in Pwr.
The best SS that I have heard yet is my Diy Sit2 that uses a pair of Nos Sony Vfet's in a push pull topology making 40watts into 4ohms, but these are rare amps and only a handful were built from a small collection of matched and genuine Sony transistors and they are pretty much unobtainable now.
Nelson does have a couple new amps in his FW lineup coming out probably next year and that would be the F8 and the Sit3.
Or you could really step out of the box and get yourself the all in one Lyngdorf Tdai-2170 that grannyring and others are really liking. I personally haven't heard one but I will predict that in the next 5 to 10 yrs this kind of Class D technology will be further refined along with improvements to switch mode pwr supply's that will turn the Audio Industry upside down and probably only small percentages of Audiophiles will retain their Tubes and Class A SS gear.
I'm stocking up on tubes as I write this post because I will always have a least a couple of Tube amps for a different fun flavor forever.😃
Thanks teajay, any info would be appreciated. They sound like wonderful tubes. I believe Kenny is correct in that they are not Shuguang tubes but are Golden Dragon Retro KT 88's that are replicas of the GEC. Thanks for the info Kenny.
Ill find out soon enough as I orders a matched quad of the Golden Dragon Retro KT 88's. The bay has them at a reasonable price, which I'm a bit leery seeing as they are twice the price at another shop in the US and at another in England. Hopefully I'm getting the real deal.
Corelli, you tease! Share your tubes with us......that sounded so wrong :)
Thank you, Kenny, for reposting this article by Nelson Pass. I read it a few years ago and didn't understand it then. I still don't understand it, but I misunderstand it less now than then. Like you, it helps explain why I like the sound I do from my F-3's feeding my Brilliance for opera and chamber music with some symphonies thrown in.
Regardless, Eric's speaker are sooo revealing. I'm still tweeking minor speaker positioning. I still wish someone would tell me if I would benefit by moving higher up the food chain either in First Watt or Pass amps? Even though Reno Hi-Fi is generous in their return policy and trade ups, it still is a heavy lift for a retiree on a fixed income. But, for the sake of undistorted 3rd order sound...no pain, no gain (pun intended). Others on this lively thread are welcome to chime in.....But please don't try to convert me to tubes. I tried a modified Dyna-kit st-70 years ago and ...don't get me going. A real pain in the tochos for mushy sound. Excuse this ramble. It's late in Utah.
"I finally read a Nelson Pass article about distortion and found out that it's about an even split between people that prefer 3rd order harmonic distortion to 2nd order....Clearly my ears prefer the 3rd harmonic and that truly helped me make decisions about speaker choices and amplification. It was liberating to know that there wasn't something wrong with me for not loving SET"
Here is a link to the article from Nelson Pass that David is referring to in his previous post on this same page above.
I heard similar news late last week that the parts are soon to arrive for my now 8 week old order for Electrons, and will be shipped in approximately 1 more week. However, I did not get the impression that the model is still being tweaked. I absolutely do not want them until they are completely ready on all parameters. I will call tomorrow for clarification, and post my findings for the soon to be Electron owners.
Corelli,
No way you were restricted on your tube amp quest.
No one with the gumption to bike thousands of miles would get caught in that trap!
After a rather complicated Audiogon transaction, I finally have some glowing glass and steel in house. It's currently driving a pair of VSA VR-33's. This is the best amp I've had driving these speakers. Very nice air and detail, paints a big picture with nice color saturation . I'll keep you guessing for a while while I do some listening. But I'm enjoying this system so much right now the DI's may need to wait a bit. What a great problem having two systems you enjoy so much!
Really good posts recently.
teajay, was a bit shocked to hear that a kt-120 floated your boat! I've heard very mixed reviews on that tube. Of course the tube is only half the story. Implementation is the other. Sounds like Aric has some nice amps going.
Kenny, you are the AmpMaster. Thanks for all your insightful posts. Much appreciate reading about what these different amps bring to the DI table.
Mac, I'm excited for the loaners that are coming your way. What a great opportunity you have right now to help you find your ultimate amp. And really nice of Charles to let you enjoy his amps as well.
So now, the question. Did Corelli follow his wife's advice when she declared that "no tube amp should have more than 6 tubes!"?
Just a quick update for those that ordered Electrons. Tekton is still waiting for 8" woofers to arrive hopefully tomorrow and Eric apparently is still tweaking. I was told another 2 more weeks. I ordered them 3 weeks ago. Can’t wait to hear them. Peace out!
I was just sharing with Mike Kay (Audio Archon) what magic I was hearing all day long with these Shuguag KT-88 tubes in the AricAudio SET amplifier driving the Ulf's. It dawned on me during our conversation the best way to explain what I was hearing was that if the Micro-ZOTL, used as an integrated amplifier, put out ten watts per channel instead of two that's what the combo of the Micro-ZOTL and this amplifier sounds like!
I believe if my memory is correct the golden dragon kt-88 was made by the JSC Svetlana company in Russia and was actually a 6550 retro tube of the original Gec.This company also made several Dht tubes such as 2a3,300b,350b,211,845 and more starting in 1992.
They also made a limited selection of 9 pin small signal tubes that were well thought of at the time. Most of these are very hard to come by now but not completely impossible to find.
Thanks for sharing teajay. Sounds exciting. Would you or Ezra ( or anyone else here) have any idea on where to purchase the Golden Dragons? I could find Shuguang Treasure KT 88 and out of England some Golden Dragon KT 88 Retro.....not sure if they're Shuguang though. Thanks
Very interesting update with some different tubes, I personally haven't ever used any of the golden dragon tubes in any amp but I've been told by several guys that they can be quite good.
I'm happy to read that you are enjoying Aric's workmanship and I hope you are able to also try a pair of Tung Sol Kt-150's for comparison.
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