@teajay I’m glad you brought this point up. It’s also a point of disagreement for me. Like you, I will have to listen to the Encores to know for sure.
Having visited you and @audioezra and from my first listen of the Ulfberths in @bullitt5094 ’s system I believe I now have a good feel for the differences between the SEs and Ulfberths. The feedback on the Encores does not jive with that.
@waltersalas concurs with Clement’s assessment so there’s likely something to what they, and others, are finding!!! : )
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@corelli I rarely get into Audiogon so I only now read your question:
"I read your post on AudioCircle where you upgraded your Spatials to the TM’s. If I read you correctly you seemed to be a bit underwhelmed and were ready to go "back to the drawing board."So I am assuming your last two posts represent that effort.
Now you seem very taken with the TM’s despite using the same PL electronics you had before. So was it by way of comparison you realized just how good the TM’s really are? Not being at all critical here--just trying to understand what changed your opinion.
Lastly, it would be helpful if you could comment on imaging/sound stage of the DI’s vs the TM’s. While I won’t be parting with my DI’s, I have a second system that I have considered the TM’s for. They would be driven by a PL HP integrated. In particular, how does the height of the stage compare to the DI’s. Thanks. "
Yes, you are spot on, my last two posts here represented the "effort" to find a sound particular to my needs. To put some perspective on this, given that this thread is specific to DI, my comments should be read strictly as one man’s (along with the others who were involved in the demos) opinion about how DIs compared to TMs, MLs, B&W, Polks, etc. in my room/my chain/etc.
There never was a moment when I "realized just how ’good’ the TM’s really are". What I realized is how important room configuration/treatment/speaker placement is to achieving a sound that suited my aural goals. "Aural goals" is a moving target though, I learned that it’s always going to be on a spectrum because content delivered was/is never identical from song to song, artist to artist, playback unit to playback unit.
I also learned that there is no holy grail, i.e. one speaker/amp/etc. that will "nail it" or do it all. That’s why now when I read manufacturing marketing or post claims that imply this, I know that it’s complete and utter rubbish. Some of it is well-intentioned yet perspectiveless, most of it is PT Barnum fabrication in its purest form.
To put it another way, if I listened only to Beatles vinyl I would have bought B&W. Vocals presented via the 702s were the most articulate in my space. But I’d have to give up some of the previously described warble in exchange. B&W couldn’t pressurize (warble-ize) my room consistently with other content. Thus the TM’s represented the best compromise among all of the gear demoed across all of the type of content I listen to.
To more specifically answer your first question, the key was speaker placement. Changing placement changed what I previously found to be a lackluster not-so-emotionally grabbing aural experience into one that turned out to be a game changer for me. I didn’t care which speaker would have done it, it just so happened that it turned out to be the Spatial Audio brand/model. The others couldn’t offer what the TMs do. We tried to get them to, but couldn’t. The "do" to which I refer is a certain aural sound/experience that appeals to me (and appealed to the others who were with me during the demos). I would never assert that anyone else should/would prefer what I happen to like.
So maybe it begs the question -- could I have saved myself all of the time and effort I put into this quest if I had simply more thoroughly experimented with TM speaker placement/treatment at the onset? Possibly yes, although I know myself well enough to know that I would have still had that lingering nagging question, "What if (with other gear)?" I needed to scratch that itch once and for all. And I figured why not do it with a speaker in the demo chain that some people were calling a "giant killer". Well I learned that for me it’s not a giant killer after all. It’s just another nice sounding speaker among many many other nice sounding speakers. They all had benefits and limitations. But the DIs cannot pressurize my room the way the TMs do. They simply cannot do it. The TMs it turns out, with the baffleless rear design, do something that I found unique and that I personally like.
With respect to "how does the height compare"? The question implies that "height" is a variable that gets rendered consistently across all content, all delivery platforms, which I found not to be my experience. I can say that, looking at my notes and recalling our demo sessions, there was no appreciable difference TM vs DI, otherwise we would have noted it.
Again, as I’ve mentioned in prior posts, if anyone is flying by Philly and wants to hear what I’ve built, send me a PM and I’ll try to arrange a private listening session so that others can hear what I hear/experience.
After re-reading my posts, I see that the discussion has become somewhat academic. If anyone learns anything from my experience it's that there's no substitute for bringing in multiple gear into one's listening space and taking the time to experiment. I found it to be an enjoyable experience, for the most part. The big downer for me was some of the experiences I had when speaking with various manufacturers. I will never again separate a marketing claim from one's self-interest.
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Thanks for the "better late than never response" snovosel!
I could not agree more with your way of thinking when it comes to auditioning equipment in your own listening space. You can read and research all you want but until you try that speaker in your own system and room you will never really know will you? That’s not to say I did not gain a l lot of confidence to pull the trigger on the DI’s via this thread and others. You actually can get much valuable information that way. For me, it let’s me know what might be worthy of an audition. But until that product is in your own room you never really know. As I’ve stated before, a demo with strange equipment in a strange room also only carries me so far. That’s why I was never stressed by not being able to audition the DI’s.
The other comment you made that resonates with me is room set up and acoustic treatments. For me, that is where the magic (or sometimes frustration) occurs. I hear more significant changes here than with the majority of other changes I might make in my system.
Glad the TM’s finally worked out for you and I appreciate hearing about your journey! |
Over a year with the DIs here. Would love to hear from someone about more in depth differences between the DI and the SE. I have heard several say they actually miss certain attributes of the original. Is it more voiced for the typical female voice jazz whatever stuff people buy mega buck speakers for?
Not really lookin but pretty sure my next speaker will be Tekton but I would not want to give up Dynamics to do so. |
@ mofojo
david_ten is in a good position to comment on your question. You may want to get in touch with him.
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@mofojo Reach out via PM if you are still evaluating. I’ve been busy getting ready for and back into riding (somewhat of a reverse bicycling season here) and haven’t been as active on the forum. Thanks, @corelli
@mac48025 and others will also have their perspectives regarding your question.
There were a few posts related to this some time ago. Might be worth trying to capture those via an advanced search. |
OMG! IS this the longest thread in Audiogon???? It took me forever to read it all. And wow, got some amazing ideas, tips and suggestions to aid me prior to ordering my DI's.
First Question: Found on another thread "Grills" Cheap, etc, etc. (I'm getting the AcousTex material) True or False?
Second: Found on another thread, Finish. Not furniture grade, cheap feeling, you can feel the grit. etc, etc. (I'm getting the standard custom color finish) True or false?
Third: Delivery time, Takes forever, grills seemingly never arrive without constant calling etc etc. True or False?
Thanks, I'm wanting to call them as soon as tomorrow but would like at least a couple replies before I order them. John |
Hi John. For me it is/was the following:
First = True = nothing fancy here. Glue visible on the backside, simple wood frame, cloth tight on frame with square corners, whereas the cabinets are rounded some.
Second = True = I got the standard black matte finish, and it is a bit rough, but it isn’t bad. The spray was even. My DIs are 10 months old, and there are more seams exposed than when they were new.
Third = True-ish = I had to keep on them about the grilles, as they weren’t shipped with the speakers. But my speakers arrived five days after order. That was pretty great!
best of luck |
@iclickjohn Both my Dis and Encores came on time and perfectly finished. I've no complaints. I didn't get grills. |
My DIs were perfectly finished as well. |
@mofojo The difference between the DI's and SE's? Where to begin? Both are great speakers and if I had two systems I'd have kept the DI's. When first recieving the SE's I was somewhat disappointed as I thought they were less lively and too laid back compared to the DI's. That changed over time as the SE's broke in, which takes longer than with the DI's. After having the SE's almost a year now I'm very happy with the change as they are truly amazing speakers but there are times I miss the DI's. I find the SE's to be more refined, more polished and probably better sounding from top to bottom but the DI's have more of the "Tekton" sound I grew accustomed in the previous three years with the Enzo's and DI's. What sound is that? It's not easy for me to describe other than the DI's, like the Enzo's, had a very "live" sound. The SE's do also, just not quite to the same degree. The SE's do everything else better IMO but being more refined aren't quite as rambunctious as the DI's.
In the end I'm glad I went with the SE's but could have been quite happy with the DI's. It's like I'm so lucky to have been married to a wonderful lady for 35 years......but I still remember my first love fondly. This is yet another time I'm glad my wife has no interest in audio and doesn't read these posts! I'd have a much easier time explaining my fondness for the DI's than fondly remembering a high school sweetheart 😃
@iclickjohn I've owned three pair Tektons, one in satin and two with automotive paint finish. The automotive paint surely takes their looks up a few notches but the satin black looked good enough to me. Fit and finish on all three speakers was very good. You won't mistake them for furniture grade, but then my couch doesn't sound as good as my speakers 😀 . Eric used to offer very nice wood veneers that looked great as he was a furniture or cabinet maker at one time but I'm not sure that's an option anymore. Delivery was as promised. I never ordered grills so I can't speak on them. |
Could the slight change in “liveliness” be explained by the claimed 3 dB efficiency difference?
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All my expectations were met, fit and finish. I'm extremely happy. |
@mac48025 I PM'd you. Maybe I did it wrong.
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@iclickjohn
I had a set of Electrons not the DIs, but feel the information would still be valid. The ones I got were B stock on the specials page and were advertised as with grills.
Question 1: No grills came with the speakers even though they were advertised with them. The speakers had holes for the grill pegs. I called and asked about the grills and was told they still need to be made.
Question 2: As mentioned above, they were B stock and there were a couple of defects in the paint. Even given that, I found the finish just ok, but not a deal breaker.
Question 3: See answer to question 1. The grills never did arrive in the month that I had the speakers.
I ended up returning the speakers, but it was not because of the above. While I found them good, the decision to return them was based on performance. Tekton did make good on their return policy, which is a good thing. I appreciated the ability to test them in my home. |
I have owned three pairs of Tektons: the Double Impacts, the SEs, and now the Encores. In all three cases, the finish was just fine. I am particularly fond of the Encores done in Spanish Tile soft gloss. Some say the Tektons are ugly, but I think these look very nice in my living room. For what it is worth, so does my wife. And the sound...wow. I fully expect that this will be my last pair of speakers.
I did not order the grills.
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I just took the DI plunge. Upgrade model. To match our furniture, SW 6048Terra Brun, a nice rich warm brown. I am ordering two sets of grills, one conservative set of black by AcousTex with the 98% transmission fabric. I will be calling them tomorrow for some of their swatches for a second set of grills in a "step’n out" kind of color, when my wife isn’t home lol. I think Cinnamon or Solid Rust or Spice by AcousTex. I told her I wanted the grills shipped with the speakers. She said yes, ten days. And I’ll order the second set of grills later. I hope they’re having a great day when they make mine. I told her that I would pay extra if he payed a little extra attention to the details and craftsmanship. She said like $100. But then I figured, why should I pay them to do it right. So I said "nah, I changed my mind, just have them make them right, as they should be" with no scruffy finish etc. I’m confident in the sound, pairing with PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium Integrated with digital server Sony HAP-S1. Just a clean simple set up for now with the option to add mono-blocks in the future. The PL is already amazing with my 25 year old speakers. Can’t wait to really hear them sing now. JM |
I can’t wait to hear your thoughts once they arrive, John, and the pairing with the PL. Be sure and listen to them without the grills as well. I really do love my upgraded DIs. They will be with me for many years. |
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@aweiner77 If i was looking at a cheaper version of the double impacts I'd go with the electrons and skip the impacts. Just my opinion. |
I think @jcarcopo is saying (please correct me in case I am wrong) the FULL 7 Tweeter Array, flanked by the 2 mid range drivers, is important and worth the added investment. |
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Agreed about the 7 tweeter array, I'll go further saying the 15 tweeter array in the Encore and Ulf is also worth going for! I heard the Encores at RMAF and the extra information gained by having tweeter domes producing midrange from 300 Hz up is startling, the sweet spot in the Tekton line for me would be the Encores, that transparent midrange coupled with the solid low bass and superior dynamics make it my winner. I'm finding that more efficient speakers, cones, planars, or horns, with ratings of 94 dB or higher, really let music have more of the dynamic excitement live music provides and gets me more emotionally involved in the music. Congratulations Eric on making so many great speakers to choose from, and making them affordable! |
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as a Tekton DI owner, my first priority is performance and the looks come second. what matters the most, is when i hit that play button or drop the needle, that is where the rubber meets the road....Thanks Eric!!!
how many manufacturers, offer a 60 day in home trial with no commitment to buy. just pay the shipping cost, if you don’t like them?
what Dealer or any seller on Audiogon or Ebay offers this?
imo: what amazes me the most, you can buy a Tekton product at a affordable price, and get outstanding performance. and for some odd reason this bothers, a whole lot of people?
there’s a bunch of speakers, that might look better and cost way more, but they pale in comparison to Tekton Performance and Value!
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Great to see this thread so active still.
@iclickjohn, congrats. Looking forward to hearing your impressions with you DI's and PL. Make sure you're well rested when they arrive.....you just might be up all night listening to all of your music as if it was your first time hearing it.
I'll have Aric's latest amp creation, a parallel 300B PP delivering 25 watts, to compare to his 300B SET that I've been enjoying for the last year. Should be a fun comparison. Charles and iclickjohn will be stopping over to hear them, maybe Corelli will venture to this side of the state to join us......and bring some Founders? 🍻 🔈
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Mac, might be on my radar. It would be nice to meet you guys. Send me a PM on when you were thinking and your location. Just make sure it's not when the Wolverines are playing!
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I'll have Aric's latest amp creation, a parallel 300B PP delivering 25 watts, to compare to his 300B SET that I've been enjoying for the last year. Should be a fun comparison. Congratulations, Tom. Looking forward to hearing how your comparison goes. |
Thanks for the "array" option suggestions. Would DIs work in a 25 x 11 room with speakers on the long wall. Seating position would be about 7-8' from speakers. |
Does it matter if the tweeters are at ear level with the tweeter array? With the Electrons I have, my ear is exactly 39" which is the height of the center tweeter. |
Aniwolfe,
my ear is level with the array on my DIs, but I often recline where my ear is lower and becomes at the bottom or just below the array. I like the sound both ways, but the absolute crispness of center vocals when my ear is at the center is really hard to top. |
@ainwolfe I prefer to be slightly higher...in my primary listening position my ears align with the top of the top tweeter, but I do sit further away in this particular spot. |
Hi Tom,
For clarification is this new amplifier parallel SET(using 2 output 300bs running full single end mode). Or are the 2 300bs per channel a push pull (PP) circuit? At 25 watts I suspect probably PP. Either way congratulations.
Charles |
Thanks Charles,
I'm quite sure it's a push pull and hopefully Aric will chime in with more information on his new creation. I think I referred to it as a parallel 300B and that's probably not correct. As you know, I'm not real good on the technical aspect of things.
Tom |
Hey everyone. Preemptively letting you know of a new direction I decided to commit to, late yesterday evening.
I purchased a 2A3 amp and will be exploring speaker pairings and eventually a preamp. This will be a 'secondary' system with the same front end as I currently have.
You may see posts or threads exploring speaker recommendations. Just so everyone is clear, my Tekton DI SE system will remain the same and will be a primary listening system.
I continue to be amazed by how good this system is and it is not going anywhere. This goes for not only the SEs, but also the T+A PA 3100 HV amp, the Denafrips Terminator DAC, and the rest of my system chain.
If you have recommendations of speakers that will shine with a 3.5 W amp, I am all ears.... 8 Ohm speakers and up.
As you know, Eric has a 'Perfect' SET option. : )
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Hey Tom, You’ve got it right. It’s a 300B Push Pull cathode bias amplifier that can produce 25 watts per channel. This amp followed on the coat-tails of my Transcend and Special PP KT based amps. The question was- Since a SET amp can sound so good ( because there’s so little in the signal path), is that why PP sounds so dry and lifeless? So I decided to put the same care and attention to parts selection and simple signal paths in a Push Pull without pushing anything near cutoff where it sounds hard or strained, and the results were a very pure and effortless sounding Push Pull. I then became slightly obsessed and decided to see what that would do with a 300B push pull and that led to this creation- SET purity in its convincing yet more balls and grip in the bass due to more headroom and the efficiency of Push Pull. It took two chassis to get this right as the power supply uses exclusively film caps, no less than 6 power transformers and multiple chokes to provide all the "fuel" to do it right. I’m very very excited to hear Tom’s (and whomever else is present) impressions in a direct comparison to his beloved 8 watt per channel single-ended amplifier.
@david_ten - Congrats on entering the SET realm! It can definitely be a love affair, kind of like that voluptuous soft curvy girl we knew in our teenage years that just everything right, but wasn’t as tall or brassy as the cheerleader everyone drooled over. More of an lover than a mathematician if you will :-) If I can be on any help, I’d love to design and build you something nice. |
@david_ten Funny on the timing of things David. I have a secondary system as well with a PL Dialogue HP (granted, not quite the SET direction you are venturing into) currently driving VSA VR-33's. While not unhappy with the 33's, I really am curious about the Tekton Perfect SET creation. So why don't you order up and get back to me! Just kiddin--kind of. Was thinking might be nice to spec some upgraded caps, add a short stand (see link) and then a nice custom color to maintain spousal harmony. What do you think? https://deercreekaudio.com/p/custom-stands |
I just took delivery of Arics Special PP last Thursday and I can attest that there is nothing strained or dry about them. It’s mated to Arics Motherload pre driving the DI and it is effortless. I’m absolutely having a great time with it. The mid has weight and body. The low end is authoritative, deep and quick. I put on some techno on last night and I got all the low end I think the DI can muster with no hint of smearing. The highs are detailed and airy but no harshness. Great dynamics and punch in ultra-linear mode (which is what I prefer considering my musical tastes). It’s working great for me with the DI. Also, I went with the KT120’s. I have no doubt the PP 300b performs great. |
@aricaudio Thanks!
@corelli Those stands look lovely. I find custom stands for any speaker aesthetically more pleasing than a multi-use one. And it would be what I would also choose to do with Eric's Perfect SET speaker. When you put your order in, make sure you spec it with the Be tweeters. : ) |
@david_ten
So what 2A3 amp did you pick up David?
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@corelli It's Scott Sheaffer's Found Music 2A3 There isn't much information online regarding it, but there is some here, including pics: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/found-music-2a3-amplifier.4279/And some tech info, below: "These are 2-stage direct coupled single ended triode design. Rectification uses mercury fullwave rectifier tubes Driver circuit is powered and operated as a dedicated amplifier by itself, rectifier is 82 and signal tube is 7A4 Output circuit has own power supply as well rectifier is 83 and tube of course is 2A3 PS and bypasses are Jantzen and Jupiter. UX4 sockets are Audio Note silver and ceramic. The amps are wired throughout with UPOCC copper. Magnetics are nickel from Intact Audio (Dave Slagle). Output with the JJ 2A3 tubes that are stock with it is just shy of 3.5 watt into 8 ohm. The amps are made for a 6-9 ohm impedance." @charles1dad was instrumental in his support and advice, without which I would have been lost in the woods as this is very new territory for me. Thank You Very Much, Charles. |
Wow. That is one serious effort David. I'm sure when you get that system together it will be special indeed. I'll be curious to see what preamp and speakers you end up going with. And I'm sure your SE's will get to spend some time with this amp as well. Keep us posted.
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David,
you have acquired an acknowledged , all out assault and state of the art 2A3 SET amplifier. It is designed, implemented and built to the uppermost level.
Given your stated objective and purpose/intentions with this amplifier I think you are going to find it stunningly good with the appropriately chosen speaker match. Congratulations on getting this world class power amplifier.
Charles |
Very cool amp! I like the over built design and direct coupled driver. Be aware of Mercury rectifiers, they're far more dangerous than the liquid mercury in older thermometers and if broken will quickly spread a fine mist around the room (more so when hot). I would never want to break a mercury rectifier tube in my living room, that's the main reason they were foregone for the more common 5U4, 5Y3, 5AR4 rectifier tubes. |
Hi Aric. Thanks! I am aware of this. |
1 "Overbuilt design" aspect of the Found Music 2A3 is an understatement 😊
2 I wouldn’t throw frisbees in the vicinity of the this amplifier. With awareness and common sense I believe all will be fine. Mercury retifiers in the driver stage as well as the output stage. This is a serious approach if there cever were one. Scott Sheaffer wasn’t playing around 😊.
3 Direct coupled 2 stage circuit surely accounts in a significant way for the raves regarding the amp’s purity and naturalness. Looking forward to David’s initial listening impressions. I want to know how Dexter Gordon, Coltrane, Johnny Hartman et al sound with this amplifier in the signal chain. .
Charles |
Well, my DIs arrived today. However, the grills I ordered didn't make it and there appears to be no documentation. Before I hook 'em up, can someone tell me if the positive connection is on the left or right post when I'm facing the rear of the speaker. (or do these babies render polarity obsolete?).
It's always the little things... |
Right is red and always positive. |
