Glad to see this discussion motoring right along. I want to echo david_ten's observations on break-in. It took my Double Impacts at least 300-400 hours to reach their peak, and I am finding that the SEs are taking just as long or longer. Unfortunately, they were going through a "down" phase when Dan (kebouchard84) came by for an audition a couple of weeks ago, resulting in some looseness and lack of definition and impact in the bass and some stridency in the upper frequencies, especially on some recordings. For a few days, I found it difficult to listen to much of anything but acoustic, very well-recorded music. I had warned him in advance that they were still fairly early in the break-in process and that the sound would be unpredictable. Of course, he can speak for himself if he chooses, but I think he heard the potential in the speakers in spite of these issues. He spoke glowingly of his audition of the Double Impacts at grey9hound's place.
My SEs are sounding much improved now, glorious at times. Given my experience with the Double Impacts, I know this story will have a happy ending, though there is still some distance yet to travel. In some cases with these speakers, much patience is required, but the pay-off is extraordinary. Until then, it's a bit of a roller coaster ride, at least for some of us. The good news is that you do get glimpses of their greatness along the way.
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@craigl59 sorry to let you down. Had a late dinner.
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It's congrats to david_ten and I plan on scoring at the 6000 mark. |
Hi David,
Exactly why I’m trying to get a sense of what constitutes a meaningful change in the system following the Encore insertion. For example he already owned the mentioned 300b tubes as well as the Nord amplifier. These were used with the Double Impacts so really no change in behavior doing so with the Encores. Bigger impact, cable loom or a new line stage? Opinions will indeed vary here.
But yes all in good fun and I’m fine with Jonathan deciding the parameters. 8 to 13 watts is still well within the realm of low power tube amplifier particularly in the context of comparison with a 400 SS watt amplifier. Jonathan what’s your perspective?
Charles |
@craigl59 It wasn't by plan. Waltersalas broke the 5K barrier and the start of page 101 and duly deserves the credit. |
Charles. Yes, all in good fun. I obviously will do anything to score a tasty meal. 😊 |
I have not posted or even read this thread in a long time. I am glad to see it survived that period of strong "negative Nancy-ism". It sure is interesting to see the new products from Tekton and how they are being received.
Anyway, I am now using the following chain:
Roon (sonicTransporter i5)
PS Audio DirectStream w/Bridge II (Ethernet input)
Don Sachs Model 2 6SN7-based line stage (balanced input)
Don Sachs Kootenay 120 KT88 tube amp (65 watts per channel)
This setup sounds absolutely stunning with the upgraded Double Impact speakers. I get incredible detail without any digital harshness and the soundstage has width, height, and depth. The bass response is phenomenal with this amp. It is much stronger than the Pioneer M-22 Class A solid state amp I was using but is tighter and more defined. I am still VERY happy with my speakers!!
Those Encore speakers sure are interesting though!
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I'm the local audiophile that heard the Encore's at Jonathan's home on Friday evening. The Nord was spectacular on the Kodo drums, but the Diavolo was like hearing live music in a great sounding venue! I heard the Elrog 300b's and we discussed that the Emission Labs would have a little more impact. So my vote is that Jonathan does not make any major changes. Switching to other tubes you have on hand does not seem like a major change to the system. I think Jonathan has arrived at his destination. Based on his priorities, I do not see how it can get better, or more to his liking! |
@mlg Thanks for the kind words. I like the way you think. I enjoyed having you over. It's great meeting enthusiastic audiophiles to gab a mile a minute with and also to listen to some tunes! I look forward to seeing you Thursday to return the favor.
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Hi mig,
That’s my sense as well as to the probability of any significant changes at this juncture. You say that the Diavolo sounds like live music and Jonathan has written several times the Diavolo is the more emotionally involving amplifier. These are high compliments and quite revealing observations (what is more flattering than such comments ?). This is what can lead to very long term satisfaction with one’s audio system. Actually it seems as though the Encores are functioning as a truly transparent conduit and further exploiting the innate excellence of the Diavolo. My suspicion is that Jonathan has recognized this outcome as well.
BTW for jazz lovers I’m currently listening to "George Coleman At Yoshi’s" a well know jazz venue in Oakland, CA. Coleman on tenor saxophone leading a quartet. It’s good!
Charles |
Jcaropo, I enjoyed it as much as you, and looking forward to having you over next week.
charles1dad, I always enjoy reading your insightful comments, as well as the comments from the many other knowledgeable and experienced participants here on Audiogon. |
Mig,
Thank you. I'm sure Jonathan is going to enjoy hearing your Tekton Lore and Manley Parallel 300b amplifier pairing. What 300b are you currently using in this amplifier?
Charles |
charles1dad,
I'm using Svetlana 300b's in Manley Retro's. That is what came with the amps probably 17 years ago. They are hard to find now, so I have a few spares on hand. When they get used up, I may have to go to the big league 300b's like you and Jonathan. Or maybe change to the Coincident amps you have, which require only one 300b per channel instead of two. The performance of the Retro's really perked up when I upgraded the rectifier tubes to some NOS Phillips recommended by Upscale Audio. |
Guys, I will be doing my very BEST to tempt jcarcopo into changing gear, as a proper devil should!
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@porscheracer Great to have you pop in again and for sharing your updated system components. Can't beat: This setup sounds absolutely stunning I've posted this previously, but sharing since we have some similarities in our system's front end. I replaced my sonicTransporter AP with an i7 Kaby Lake Roon DSP (only) unit (Small Green Computer) which also allows for ethernet bridging. |
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@david_ten Thanks! Yes, I thought about buying the sTi7 DSP version but I don't need the horsepower. At least not yet! I wouldn't have bridged the Ethernet anyway as I like to keep the Roon core in another room separate from my audio system. My switch does a great job of blocking noise on the Ethernet port used by the DAC.
I am finding that the DI speakers do better with 65 wpc versus 30 wpc. In fact, I tried some of the SET amps discussed in this thread and while I found the mid-range to be sublime, I found the low end and sometimes the top end lacking. I prefer the sound I am getting for the Don Sachs Kootenay 120 push/pull amp. The bass is the best I have have ever heard as is the top end. On balance, I don't know that I have heard a better overall sound top to bottom.
What are you using these days for an amp? |
@porscheracer The Small Green Computer products are terrific performance-wise and a great value.
I went through a lengthy audition phase with amps. I settled on the T+A PA 3100 HV solid state integrated amp.
This was after comparing against my Pass Separates (which I am holding on to, for now), Mastersound Evo 845 tubed integrated, Ypsilon Phaethon hybrid integrated and the Lyric Ti140 Mk2 tubed integrated (which I owned but have traded in). I wasn't able to demo / audition the Vitus SIA-025, Gryphon 300, and Grandinote Essenza.
The Lyric was running KT150s at 70wpc. Very similar to your KT120's 65 wpc. |
Nice list of amps! The Kooteney 120 uses KT88 tubes. I am not sure why Don calls it a 120.
That is one nice integrated amp! I could afford the price of admission but don't think I would ever spend that much on a piece of audio equipment. I am at a pretty good place right now. I am concentrating on listening to music and filling out my CD collection now.
Have fun! |
Thanks for the clarification on the tube type.
Nice to see so many in a "pretty good place right now." A fantastic outcome for those that are enjoying their systems via their Tekton speaker of choice.
The amp was a massive stretch for me, despite the cost being equivalent to the Pass separates when I factored in the two extra cables and additional isolation platform. Even more so as I am still holding on to the Pass separates.
My system is closing in on being complete. Some finishing touches remain. It's good having found a fundamental component in the amp.
Hopefully a few of our thread members can make it down here and listen for themselves. I believe the T+A amp is a very special product. |
I'm listening a Blue Coast Recordings https://i.imgur.com/Ivt9WMF.pngNow I've heard the entire album a dozen times on my DIs, but what the Encores do with acoustic guitar solos is nothing short of amazing! I'm in heaven. I highly recommend that album in the aforementioned link. |
@jcarcopo ...nothing short of amazing! I’m in heaven. +1 +1 +1 LOVE hearing this! Congratulations (once again) on taking that leap with the Encores!!! I can only imagine how Eric feels when he hears this kind of feedback on one of his latest creations. |
@david_ten He should feel really good about this design.
I decided I'm selling my Nords and just keeping my Diavolo tube amplifier. Sucks because I really like the Nords for what they do on these speakers, but I really need to recoup some money towards the Encore purchase. I just cancelled my Amazon order for an amp switcher box because I'd have to buy more cables to allow me to switch between amps so I could do ss and tubes to suit my mood. I sold my Double Impacts today. That was easy and painless.
Anyone needing a $2900 pair of 2 month old upgraded 400wpc Nords One-Up SE NCORE Monoblocks let me know. I'll let them go for $2300 shipped and insured, paypal included. |
Jcarcopo,
The Tekton Encores and Art Audio Diavolo pairing must be genuinely sublime. Congratulations on obtaining this level of sound quality in your home. I can tell that you appreciate what you have accomplished.
Charles |
@charles1dad Thanks, buddy! I'm so happy everything has come together so well. Couldn't be more ecstatic.
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Why all of a sudden do I feel 7 tweeters are not enough?
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@corelli The 15 tweeter MTM is no joke. The higher quality tweeter drivers used in the Encore are very revealing and with 15 of them the vocals and instruments from the 300hz midrange all the way through the treble region is just effortless, incredibly detailed, never harsh, totally enveloping, and they epitomize coherance.
The midbass drivers are the Italian ones like in the Ulfs, and the long throw 11" woofers are absolutely incredible recreating detailed, tight, and seismic bass that is simply stunning. These type of woofers are a departure from the pro-audio type paper woofers found in the DIs, SE, and Ulfs and there’s no comparison in what they do when compared to the DIs I’ve enjoyed over the last year so much.
I really do hope someone else gets a pair soon and chimes in so I’m not the only one blathering on mesmorized by the Encore’s performance. I feel like a lonely fanboi who won’t shut up about them. Sorry about that. (not sorry, 😂 ) |
@ jcarcopo
Actually I'm very happy for you and am quite serious about the tweeter issue. While many have scoffed at Eric's patent, I will say this---when implemented correctly, there is a big advantage to having low mass tweeters cover an unprecedented number of octaves. As stated before, the drivers are virtually never pushed or stressed. So that liquid, smooth yet detailed sound is readily achieved without resorting to silly expensive drivers. No aoplogies jcarcopo nor do I doubt your impressions of this new speaker.
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The Encore speaker seems like a real gem. I have to hear a set based on the drivers used and the now proven design. The size of this speaker also seems reasonable for many of us. I have no doubt these may be the creme of a very potent crop of Tekton speakers! I leave out the massive sized Ulfs which simply are too large for msny of us.
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@grannyring Very well stated. The footprint of the Encores is 2" wider, 2" less deep, and about 6" taller than the Double Impacts. (13.25" x Depth 15.25" Width x 62" Height). My only gripe is the 175lb weight was a bit much for me, but with some help and careful attention they were placed pretty much where the Double Impacts were with minor adjustments to compensate for the difference in presentation. I get my Herbie Giant Threaded Stud Gliders shipped today and will use them to easily slide them around and experiment a bit more with placement. I was very surprised how they were not finicky to place. They just plopped in and simply disappeared in my room. Regarding the drivers, I find them to be very refined and a huge improvement over the DIs drivers in just about every subjective metric. As tempted as I am to look inside and see what’s what, I’d rather just trust my ears and the designer because the resulting sound is so good that I want for nothing in anyway sonically. I can’t wait for someone else to get their pair and chime in on them. |
jcarcopo: Am confused concerning the quality and type of tweeters in both the Encore and Ulfberht. The DIs have sbacoustics SB29RDNC ring dome radiators; have purchased spares of these from Madisound and they are $57.20. The ScanSpeak drivers in the Ulfberhts appear (by sight) to be ScanSpeak D2605 dome tweeters (either the regular dome or the limited edition textile dome) that Madisound sells for $48.60 and $54.40. If so, wonder about any improvement in quality here. Personally, I would prefer a ring dome radiator over a dome as it might have less mass -- as Eric touts. It is true that the ScanSpeak drivers reach down to a lower frequency. But you or Eric's people can let us know the actual specifics.. |
@craigl59 I was told by Eric that they were of German origin. I have no idea of the brand. He only expressed that they went down to 300hz, a full octave lower than the Double Impact's tweeters.
As an aside... SO... I’m listening to a very high quality 24/96hz vinyl rip of Frank Sinatra’s "Only the Lonely" from @fetguy that is amazing. I’ve heard this recording dozens of times, but on the Encores I’ve just discovered a faint sound of Sinatra singing the next line of the song before he sings the actual line. At first I thought I was hearing an earlier take of the song being played through his headphones that he was following along to, but @fetguy explained that this is tape print-through of the master-tape recording.
How’s that for revealing? That’s amazing detail retrieval! I can’t believe how detailed these arrays are. They are definitely worth the price of admission. I’m blown away! These speakers tell the truth, plain as day, uneditorialized. |
Oh the song was "Blues in the Night" ^ on that album |
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Anyone in Southern California have DIs? Would be amazing to get a quick demo. These have been on my buy list for ages, but I gotta hear 'em first.
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pts,
These speakers depending on set-up can range from somethings afoul to phenomenal. I have them and feel they are excellent. But why take the chance on some other environment. Go through the hardship of the 60 day in-home trial. From my understanding very few ever go back for refund.
Also you are not very far from Utah, maybe a nice little vacation. Beautiful national parks in Utah, and I'm sure Eric will give you a demo, but in home is the way to go IMHO.
Best of luck,
LP |
Another great review, from HR no less!
Hmmm...
Is it worth speculating that the impact monitor measurements are very close to the DI's? |
Reporting on what others have and what @teajay very recently put so succinctly into words (from his post on 7/9): Both Ulf’s, along with the DI SE’s, are complete pure conduits that put out exactly what you put into them. ...focus on "Pure Conduits"... In addition to an upgraded server with bridged ethernet, I added new LAN cables + filter from router to server and a new DC cable from the LPS to the router. System performance has take another leap forward. Despite initially being overtly full bodied and weighty (more so than I prefer but likely to others’ preferences), it is settling into a balance best described as more ’correct’ and ’natural’ (to me) than with the previous cabling, and lack of filter, in the same chain. This is five days in. The Encores should of course be added to above because, based on @jcaropo ’s early feedback, all indications are that they deliver the same. |
@pts fully agree with previous post. Just order up. I can't imagine you could go wrong unless your room has some unusual acoustic issues. I find listening in an unfamiliar room/components only gets me so far in deciding on what will work for me. I've been at this for over 40 yrs and this is the single best purchase I have made. The value here is very high. On the very off chance they are not for you, you're out the return shipping.
Still not convinced? Then let me restate what lpreretiring said. Take a vaca to Utah, see some spectacular National Parks, and demo the Tekton line. (But you still won't know about how they sound in your room!)
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My audiophile friend, Johnny, bought my original Double Impacts texted me the following: Late last night I finally got my wife and daughter (Gregory's Mom) in for a listening session. My daughter, Christal, after the first song said "I feel like I heard that for the first time."
Just now she texted me:
After listening music through your speakers everything else is terrible. It’s like I don’t hear real music....it’s depressing. |
@lpretiring, et al.
As one of those who has not had an opportunity to listen to DI's, I will probably go for the
60 day in-home trial myself, but one downside I do see to that is it eliminates the option for custom paint, which is a little bit of a bummer.
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@343mps I can tell you that the first person who heard my Double Impacts bought them after hearing them. He is ecstatic with them and texts me frequently to tell me how happy he is with them. I spent no effort advertising them except a brief mention of them in this forum. I would order them the color you want, personally. IMHO you won't return them. |
@343mps
When I ordered my pair I was allowed to choose any color I wanted from Home Depot. I went standard finish, not high gloss though. But with that, no restriction on returning. YMMV.
I would check with Eric about any custom request.
Best of luck,
LP |
Thanks, LP, I'll do that. |
Tekton Double Impact SE and Anthem STR Integrated Amp
I got the amp a couple of weeks before the speakers. I bought the DIs used (about a year old).
Brought the speakers home on a Thursday night. Not fun moving them upstairs to the man cave. Late this night I finally got my wife and adult daughter (her oldest is 19) in for a listen. My daughter picked out the first song she wanted to hear. When it finished, she stated “I feel like I just heard it for the first time.” Nothing much else was said that night.
The next evening, she texted me:
“After listening to music through your speakers everything else is terrible. It’s like I don’t hear real music....it’s depressing.”
Additional comments in our conversation:
“It was like hearing music for the first time. I felt it.”
“It’s like ohh this is what music sounds like.”
I finally have a family member that understands this passion.
That was before I ran ARC (Anthem Room Correction) on the amp.
That took it up to completely another level.
Sounded to me everything improved tremendously. Absolute clarity, tighter, deeper bass, better imaging. But I didn't trust my ears. I wanted a second opinion. I got the ladies in the next evening, and my observations were unanimously confirmed. |
I have had a pair of Double Impacts gracing my living / listening / video room for about a month now. After reading each and every one of these posts and any all reviews I could get my hands on, I pulled the trigger and called Tekton in Utah to place my order. I was almost speechless when Eric himself answered the phone. After a brief discussion of my expectations, I followed Eric’s advice of the upgraded wires, binding posts and crossover. YES, these babies are very large and heavy. YES, they require careful setup. YES, they are everything you all have said of them. YES, the DI’s are the best sounding HiFi stereo speakers i have ever heard in my home in over 40 years of listening to reproduced music. As has been said, Double Impacts also require a seriously long “break-in” period before they really start to loosen up a bit and really sing. They can be driven to window glass breaking levels with my very modest NAD C-326BEE 50 watt integrated amp. I’m thinking of building a Nelson Pass 8 watt class A Camp Amp to use with these speakers. Anyway, there is nothing more that I can add that has not already been said! I just wish to thank everyone here on this forum for their kind (maybe some not so kind) comments, reviews, appraisals, testimonials and experiences on these wonderful speakers. I am deep gratitude to all of you.
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Anyone in the Seattle area willing to let me audition the DI speakers?
I am interested in the Encores.
Thanks |
triumphtt02: Welcome to the Tekton world; you will get countless hours of pleasure from your purchase. You are an example of the people who use this thread intelligently -- listening to the owners who provide their honest experiences and ignoring the rest. Audiogon is to be praised for providing an outlet that permits this type of enquiry. |
@triumphtt02 - Congrats on ordering the Double Impacts! I’ve enjoyed mine thoroughly for the past year. Many hours of happy listening.
@rpw The Encores are very new, so you may run into a dearth of people responding only because not many people have them yet. I was the first one to get a pair and there are a few more orders placed for them that I know of. I can only say I have no regrets upgrading to the Encores and I’ve been listening to them for many hours during the day. I hardly watch any TV now. They were totally worth it. Good luck. |
