I will have to read that review from stereophile on the Enzo XL and I'm open minded enough to report my findings.
Kenny.
Kenny.
Tekton Double Impact & Comb Filtering
Like many of you, I have been pondering purchasing these speakers but am very curious about the unusual tweeter array. I asked the smartest speaker person that I know (he is a student of Sean Olive) about the design and below is what he had to say.
"In theory it could work, but the driver spacing means that the crossover point would need to be very low.
He is using the SB acoustics tweeter which is 72mm in diameter, center to center on the outside opposing drivers is around 5.7 inches, which is about 2400Hz. This means that combing would stop between 1/4 to 1/2 of the wavelength (between 1200-600Hz) is where the outside tweeters should start playing nice with each other.
Since he is not using low enough crossover points he has created a comb filtering monster. Now while it's not the great point source that was promised, it's no worse than most line arrays and the combing will average itself out given enough listening distance.
The MTM spacing on the other hand is ridiculous. Hopefully he is cutting the top end off on one of those midrange drivers to avoid combing."
"In theory it could work, but the driver spacing means that the crossover point would need to be very low.
He is using the SB acoustics tweeter which is 72mm in diameter, center to center on the outside opposing drivers is around 5.7 inches, which is about 2400Hz. This means that combing would stop between 1/4 to 1/2 of the wavelength (between 1200-600Hz) is where the outside tweeters should start playing nice with each other.
Since he is not using low enough crossover points he has created a comb filtering monster. Now while it's not the great point source that was promised, it's no worse than most line arrays and the combing will average itself out given enough listening distance.
The MTM spacing on the other hand is ridiculous. Hopefully he is cutting the top end off on one of those midrange drivers to avoid combing."
362 responses Add your response
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Totem does not misrepresent their specs, not sure what you're talking about there, james. That's my only point, which you can't refute. Tekton is either flat wrong about the Enzo's sensitivity, or the quality control is badly lacking. Either way it reflects badly on Tekton. As does the many resonance issues with the cabinet. Flame on, fanboy. |
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I didn't pull any of that out of thin air. The measurements were done by Stereophile, and clearly show several cabinet resonance peaks, which Stereophile mentions. These resonances are the result of a rectangle cabinet with sides that vibrate. It would cost more for the manufacturer to properly brace the cabinet or use stiffer materials. The link was provided above by another poster, obviously going over the measurements was too much for fanboys. Also in the Stereophile review, they found that the sensitivity number provided by the manufacturer was off by 6db. 1 or 2 decibels might be understandable, but a variance of 6 is either an alarming lack of quality control or false advertising. Fanboys might respond with silly insults, but it doesn't change the facts. And they are indeed ugly, but I will allow as to how beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
You think a non owner such as yourself spouting off about how ugly they are and measurements which you haven't seen and their appearantly Econobox performance which you just pulled out of thin air is helpful to anyone? Ohh and you've never heard them. You are trashing a mans bussiness and livelihood for no particular reason. I just don't get it. Your baseless pointless posts should be taken into account more than a guy who owns them, has had them apart replacing components and basically knows them inside and out? |
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Uh, Kenny, in fact by mentioning that you didn’t mention anything about a patent or the Tekton design, you are indeed mentioning it. But you probably knew that. It seems that you have a fascination for Tekton, and that is fine, everybody needs a hobby, but your opinions are therefore quite biased, as one can easily read. You seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands. And as for James-w514, actually this thread was started by a non-owner researching Tekton, so if there is any Tekton thread a non owner should weigh in on, it would be this one. Fan boy owners can gush all they want over on the various Tekton owner threads, but you might get upset if you read critical comments here. So have a hanky nearby! |
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stfoth, I've explained the 7 tweeter array in many threads including the beginning posts in this thread,I know the crossover points and every measurement you could ever think of,I know how they are wired from upgrading all crossover parts to even better parts then the upgraded pair has. What I'm saying is this if you call and don't get your questions answered I will do my best to give the skinny coming from my knowledge of this speaker. Remember I have no skin in this Tekton game I'm just a happy owner that knows a lot about this speaker and others,I'm a highly technical guy and I can't keep myself from learning but at the end of the day so to speak "It's all about the Music for me"and all this equipment that we talk about is just a means to a end for musical playback in my home. Kenny. |
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Mofo, no I'm not off the measurement kick. If a company can't be trusted to give accurate specs to their products, than I wouldn't trust them period. Send them your wallet if you want, they are not for me. I am looking for an end game speaker, and the Sierra Tower is on the short list. Ascend measures their products carefully, among the other things they do so well for the customer. But I'll bow out as I've made my points for anyone looking for the pros and cons of speakers by Tekton. |
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@mofojo, If that was directed at me I don't see the dots you are trying to connect. I've always (starting months ago) said they were interesting and I would probably recommend listening to them based on design and measurements. I've also said that one of the innovations was IMHO getting the price so low for the parts quality. I have not however said I liked their looks, had listened to them or that they had remarkable efficiency. Honestly this discussion has generated a tremendous amount of emotional energy I find a little left out from. I'm not all that passionate either way. Best, E |
I also see you have a pair of Totem Rainmakers. They must blow away those crappy ole Tektons! Wanna talk about bad measurements! Only someone who doesn't care about measurements would buy them so I am a little confused? The DIs measure very flat in my room btw. Flatter then KEF 201/2 which is known to be a poster child for accuracy. You have no idea if the DI has comb filtering and I am doubtful you understand it. |
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I did say reviews showed Tekton’s were off on sensitivity. I never said they were bad. The SB Acoustics ring radiators are highly regarded, and not really that budget, especially 7 at a time! Also, I find the design pretty interesting. It is a near ideal solution of the coaxial speaker problems, if well executed. I don’t like their looks, but I think most of the theoretical criticisms lobbed at them are unfair. They’re definitely worth a listen to, especially in a real listening room, I suspect they’ll punch far above their cost, especially in the realms of dynamic range and detail/clarity at the listening location, an area where most speakers at any price won't perform as well. That said, not sure I’d pair them with flea-powered tube amps either. :) Good 100 W amp would be my personal starting point, without hearing them. Best, E |
Here's a Happiness Vitamin, Audiophile Version: From Ranker: " Music is often the best way to express happiness or joy over something you can't stop smiling about. Most happy songs have to do with a relationship, but others celebrate the simple happiness of feeling good in day to day life. This is a ranked list of the best songs about happiness, as voted on by music fans like you." The part about 'celebrating the simple happiness of feeling good in day to day life' resonates. http://www.ranker.com/list/best-songs-about-happiness/reference?var=9&utm_expid=16418821-321.JB5... We have much to be grateful for. |
Mofojo, more insults from the cheap seats, at least come up with some good ones! My critiques don't require ownership. They are as ugly as sin. They employ false advertising in the specs. The cabinet's squarish design is resulting in expecting cabinet resonances. Stereophile measures 4 big peaks. That's poor speaker design, plain and simple. I would never buy such a collection of compromises. The comb filtering thing is ridiculous in a modern speaker. $3000 is a complete rip off, but Bose sold junk to suckers for many years before people got wise to those little cube home theater nonsense speakers. I expect in a couple of years, unless Tekton gets serious about speaker design, the latest flavor of the month will be up for sale in the used marketplace in droves. Too bad that marketing and the lemming instincts of the internet herd can cause such a waste of money. |
stfoth: The Dis can be placed quite close to the wall if you place some kind of absorbent material behind the two ports. I am using custom built wall panels that do the trick because they remove first-order reflections that fight with/confuse the direct speaker's output ("Muddies"). Drapes or a pillow also work. The DI tweeter array is remarkable for a clean yet smooth result and allows for realistic images at any volume level. My setup is in a fairly large room and the bass response is so good down to 20 hz that I roll a little off through the plugin ApQualyzr. SACDs sound incredibly accurate for bass timbres - orchestral double basses punch very hard. KDude66: Your measurement of 95db at 1 watt confirms Eric's 98db figure at 2.83; the difference between the two is supposed to be 3 db. Regardless, the DIs are very efficient and you can plug any amp into them and hear the power. |
stfoth, Yes I did mention the Brilliance or Electron for you on another thread, After reading your preferences and other info in your post,I'm going to recommend the Electron or the DI monitor on proper stands since you already have a sub. Even though I have never heard the Brilliance,I don't think either one of us would like that one,It doesn't have the tweeter array that is the key to getting the detailed smooth,never in your face,magic of this design. I believe either speaker would do just fine at 1 foot from the back wall and pointed straight ahead with no toe in needed. These Tekton speakers are very forgiving in placement unlike most other speakers.They will sound nothing like the average kplisch horn speaker that you have to be 20ft away from to get coherent sound. As you know I have the DI's and I normally sit 10ft away in a 20x25x9ft room that has our open kitchen on one side.I recently did a experiment and moved my speakers 1ft from back wall and I moved my listening chair to 7 ft from the speakers.The sound was just as good in this more nearfield listening position as I get at 10ft but I would be to close to my tv so it was just a experiment. The DI's would be too big for your room I would think though,I haven't tried mine in my 2nd smaller system in a spare bedroom I'm more interested in the Electron or monitor for that room but I'm in no hurry. Hopefully you could talk to Eric when he has a moment away from designing the "super 1812 triple mega Ulf's". Best of luck to you, Kenny. |
The Mega’ s sound great! Speakers are a very personal choice so it won’t take long to have others share their negative experiences. I just hope it is after spending time and not just a demo. No complaints here if someone doesn't like them after a long listen. I know it took me about a week to fully appreciate what I had. I recently invited a picky friend over fully expecting him to trash the DI’s and put me in check but it didn’t happen. Expect a smaller reviewer to get a pair soon and go against the grain for increased reputation/noterity. That or they genuinely won’t like them. IMO the greatest strength of the product is the value and the looks have really grown on me. Insult an Audio Note product to a fan boy if you really want to deal with conflict. |
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stfoth, "I would expect if someone actually bought the Tektons and posted about them being the worst speakers the poster ever heard and such, that person would be "challenged" by others" If you or anybody else actually bought and gave any Tekton speaker a honest shot and then decided they didn't like them for whatever reason and then utilized Eric's return policy,I would personally respect that persons decision because I know there is no perfect speaker,amp or other one piece of gear that every single person is going to like. If you give me all details about what you are looking for in a speaker taking in consideration your room size,how close do you sit,music preferences,sonic preferences,volume levels,and other gear. I probably could give you my opinion coming from experience of many yrs of listening to all kinds of gear. Kenny. |
213runnin, What does the Enzo Xl speaker have anything to do with the title of this thread.? I personally have measured my DI speakers at 95.3 DB with a one watt input at 1 meter at the Industry standard frequency of 1K in my listening room. I had 2 different pairs of Zu audio speakers in the past and I performed efficiency measurements on them in 2 completely different rooms and the end result was way less than the 101DB that Zu claims. Kenny. |
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Those speakers are just plain ugly, at least Bose had some fashion sense. And being off on the sensitivity by one or two db's is acceptable. 6 is false advertising. And the design is also a squarish box with several strong resonance peaks, so says stereophile's measurements. You can tell by the immediate personal attacks that my critique can't be debated. Ugly. False advertising. Econo box performance. At least you can pay extra to put a grill on that ugly mug. |
@stfoth I can't see anyone among the current owners who are actively posting 'jumping on you.' The Impact Monitor thread OP recently returned his. I wished him the best (and so have others)...I hope he finds what works best for him. There is no one speaker for all of us. That's healthy for our hobby. All the best in figuring out what will work out for you needs. Hope Eric is able to steer you in the right direction and you are happy with whatever choice you make. |
stfoth: Exactly. Call Eric and see if he isn't the kind of professional who can help you make the right choice. Best to get him at the right time as he can be overworked. FYI, have recently purchased and returned an expensive Class D amplifier. This was bought on the basis of a well-known thread touting its abilities. My experiences were nothing like those described on that thread. Even went so far as to obtain a recommendation for the product on another site. Still, the amp was of modest capabilities and became defective in 5 days. SO, you can't always trust threads -- even established ones. But I believe you can trust honest owner reviews if you can identify them. It's the innate problem with the Internet Audio industry. |
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stfoth: There are several reviews falling into your lukewarm category including one person who returned the speakers not because he disliked them, but because they were not that much better than his current ones. Read through the extended threads and you will see. As regards your comments that all posts are "fanboys or haters" this is the nature of modern day threads. When a product becomes popular, other competitors jump onto the thread and start posting degrading comment to try and boost their own products. On the AVSForum site there is a speaker builder who constantly derides the speaker then, as fast as possible, gets his website URL on the thread. Others just want to post and show off their knowledge even though they know nothing about the product itself. Why I bought the speakers, and what you need to know, is that those who do, UNIFORMLY say good things about the product. This is the bottom line. AND, I refer you to my post above concerning "cheap speakers." There are no cheap speakers in the DI and those chosen are pro audio drivers of substantial ability. I would rather have these in my ongoing set than specialty items that cannot be purchased in case of need on the retail market. For 50 years I have been buying pro audio equipment and it is ALWAYS as good or better than home designs. |
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