TechDAS Reliability vs SME

Dear @chauncey  :  The TechDAS is a " flavored " today Micro Seiki and nothing more than that. If I were you I will go " at blind "  for the SME 20/3 not the 15.

Your Alexia V , you and MUSIC deserve that.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

I'd consider a better phono stage for the SOTA before chasing a better turntable.

Agree with @cleeds get yourself a better phono stage, maybe even look into a MSL cartridge.

Hmmm well I just bought the Mutech cartridge ($4500) and should pair well with the current mode Sutherland little loco MK2 also new....

I'm sure you carefully thought through your latest acquisitions prior to committing to the purchase.

It is now time to Enjoy this new equipment along with the existing equipment, if you can hold off until the New Speakers are over the Threshold even better.

I am sure the acquired Cart' and Phon' through the New Speakers are able to keep you impressed for a long period of a Honeymoon. 

A TT might arise as an extension of your being inquisitive at some point in 2023, but I'll have a wager, the new experience will keep you engrossed for the right reasons. 

@chauncey 

I've had both the Sota and SME 20 in house. The SME 15 would be a downgrade, the Sota is on a par with the SME 20. If you want SME you really want at least the 20/3 or a 30.

The Techdas is a rehashed Micro Seiki 8000 - which some still prefer to the Air Force 1. In my view the sweet spot for the Techdas is the 3P - significantly better than the 3 - do note there have been the odd problem with these decks - motor issues and speed logic issues so they are not immune to issues.

You will get lots of alternative suggestions, but I recommend having a look at the Kuzma R or M with the 4Point arm - much better sounding than the SME range from my personal experience of listening to both for a few years. The Kuzma's are fantastic and more importantly very very easy to set up accurately with little experience. I have been listening to a Kuzma M/4Point/van den hul grand cru for a while now - for the money its superb.

Finally your last option would be to get your Sota fully refurbished by Sota and brought up to new, you can also get your SME fully refurbished by SME along with upgraded wiring and V bearings. This would give you a superb front end by any standard if you are attached to it.

you might want to check out galibierdesign.com website for turntables.

My experience has been the more technology that is in something the more there is that can and will go wrong.  I have had an SME 20 for 19 years and never had a problem.  Some minor upgrades to bearings and wire. It sounds as good as the day I bought it.  That said, based on your system you have money to spend so maybe you are best off just going with the sound you like and letting the repair bills fall where they may.  BTW, I feel we are all spending too much on our phono pre’s.  There are many good reasonably price phono pre’s out there and the Loco is o e if them.  Live with it for a while, it may be all you need.

What @dover said.

Might want to consider a Basis turntable & arm . Time tested quality & reliability & sound excellent, substantially better than the SOTA which I also owned at one point.. Absolute Sound loves them & Stereophile never mentions them although been around for almost 40 years made in NH. strange…..

I’ve had my 2500 for 22 years & 0 problems. I got one new belt & 2 cartridges over that time. A J Conti knew what he was doing! 
 

 

Kuzma R or M with the 4Point arm - much better sounding than the SME

I've heard the Stabi R many  many times and it is my next table (currently have a Stabi S) very simple yet can accept upto 4 arms, someday will use it with 2 arms myself. 

I have listened to Sota Sapphire and TechDas AFV in my system.  I use a Kuzma 4P9 and my next table will most likely be a Kuzma Stabi R (on my Vibraplane) or a Galibier table.  The TechDas is an amazing table. The vacuum and air bearing technology have been around for several decades so I wouldn’t worry about reliability.

 I would focus more on the general sound of the table. The TechDas are very stable “smooth” sounding units that allow you to focus on the music. The Kuzma’s are thought to have a little more energy and excitement. I’m sure these are all modified by arm and cart choice as well.

I have had my TechDas III Premium for about a month. Could not be happier with the sound and user interface. Love the vacuum hold down.

I have made the statement below in another Thread.

One of the TT Brands that has captured the attention of the Chief Designer is Kuzma.

For reasons that are personal to me, and I were to reignite an interest in a Belt Drive Design, the first port of call would be a Kuzma Model. This would also be the model to be used to compare any other Belt Drives to that might be discovered to be of interest.

"I do like the History of the Chief Designer from Tech Das and the TT's left in the wake of the career moves have been nothing short of very much sought after.

I also know that he still has a passion for TT design and will be seen delving into the designs that are present at a attended commercial event.

I would not suggest this is the sole reason to consider a TT, but it in reassuring to know where some of the design considerations may have evolved from, and how successful they have been as an older generation technology".

https://techdas.jp/pages/hideaki-nishikawa-designer-techdas/ 

@chauncey , which Sota do you have?  I believe a turntable requires two features to qualify, a suspension and vacuum clamping. The SME is a better table than the Techdas for a number of reasons. The SME uses reflex clamping which is good but not as good as vacuum. It has a fine suspension. The Techdas III and V are not fully suspended but does have vacuum clamping. A good vacuum system will perfectly flatten most records removing the pitch variations you get from warping. A full suspension isolates the turntable from the rest of the world.  The Sota Cosmos Vacuum has both. It's major failing is that it is not as sexy as the other two, but it is much more user friendly. You get a really great dust cover and you can rest your hand on it without causing skipping. It's motor and control system are arguably some of the best available at any price. It's corrective mechanism is gradual not sudden making it invisible. It not only tells you what speed you have selected but also the exact speed of the plater down to a thousandth of an RPM. 

The Cosmos might be plain on the outside but inside it has a 1" thick aircraft aluminum sub chassis just like an SME 30/2. The plater is machined from billet aluminum and comes off the lath in perfect balance. The bearing has a magnetic thrust mechanism which is much quieter and more durable than any other mechanical design. The tonearm board is a constrain layer boat anchor made specifically for your tonearm's weight so the suspension remains in balance. The Sota's only major problem is that there are only a limited number of  9 or 10" tonearms that will fit. The length issue is not a problem at all as the shorter arms outperform the larger ones. Arms that will fit include the 4 Point9, the Schroder CB the SME V, some of the Reeds and all of the Origin Live arms. 

At the price point the Sota Cosmos, is looking like a Belt Drive TT that is a worthwhile experience to seek out. 

Note that the TechDas III Premium S has suspension feet. The table is offered with and without suspension feet, although given the choice--I opted for the S version. My second arm on the table is a Kuzma 4 point.

What a wonderful quandary to be in.

I'm stuck with hamburger.

 

I believe my Sota is a Sapphire Series III.  Purchased used here on Audiogon and sent back to Sota probably 10 years ago now to have them go through it.  

I'm contemplating a turntable which accepts multiple arms just for future flexibility.  

If I were in the market now I would look very hard at the new SME 60.  In terms of reliability, though, which was your original question, I have not heard of any problems with any of them.

The SME 60 is with limitation as the TT has to be purchased with the SME 5A Arm.

I would imagine is able to be purchased as a TT only. it is going to be close to a £35000 purchase.

It will not be too far from a £45 000 TT once the Tonearm of Choice and Cart' are selected if purchasing on a tightish budget. That could easily be massaged to £100000+ if the funds are quite disposable.

I don't see the TT as a Standalone or with a 5A Tonearm, being stand out if compared to a Kuzma Model or Sota Model, with a carefully selected Tonearm and Cart'.

I am quite familiar with the SME 20/12 and SME V in use and know the SME Sonic quite well. I have a SME IV I choose not to use as the main Tonearm.

I am not convinced the 5A Tonearm is to be much improved in audible performance over the SME V or IV. Even though a shift has occurred toward certain composite material being used in place of Metal Parts, much of the overall function and Rega Type of Geometry adopted that defines the earlier models remains.

I also doubt the Model 60 will ever be seen to be a valuable and worthwhile outlay of an extra £15 - 20000 to get the latest reinvention of the SME Wheel.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3100000

Difference is what makes horse races.-- Mark Twain

I have a different opinion of SME and particularly of their tonearms.

I've never been an SME guy.....yes they sound fine but think something like Basis Audio or Kuzma are the better tables.....and for less $$$

I'm sure the Techdas is made incredibly well. If you are worried see how old the owner is and if someone is gonna take over the reigns. SME changed ownership and I hope they will continue to service products in the future.

I have encountered several SME decks and whilst i respect them and why people like them they are not my cup of tea - too cold. 

I have only heard the TechDas2 and that was wonderful. the systems/rooms were different but comparably priced - not my most reliable opinion though

I am upgrading from a SOTA Sapphire with vacuum to a TECHDAS III Premium S with a few temp tables in between.  The latest temp is a Linn LP12 with a Lingo and an Ekos SE.  The LP12 sounds very good but I want the vacumn and don't forget the III has an air bearing.  As mentioned the S has the suspension footers.  Also,  there seems to be some confusion about SOTA models.  One can have vacuum with any SOTA from the Sapphire through Cosmos and all of them in that range are suspended.  Mine is a refurbished and upgraded Sapphire that is essentially a Nova with the composite armboard from the Cosmos.

And really, calling the III a "rehashed Micro Seiki 8000" is doing the advanced engineering of the III a disservice. 

You folks take care,

Robert

Dear @robob : " rehashed Micro Seiki 8000 ", well the man behind your TD III was in MS and take a look of one of the 8000 models. Yes maybe with a new advanced engineering but at the end we can know only if we can test both TT’s with with all the same surrounded items. It's almost imposible to say for sure if that new engineering really improved its quality performance levels over the one in this link.

This 8000 appears time to time on sale in Japan:

 

 

http://www.thevintageknob.org/micro_seiki-SX-8000_II.html

 

Btw, congratulations for your new TT.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

"Dear @robob : " rehashed Micro Seiki 8000 ", well the man behind your TD III was in MS and take a look of one of the 8000 models. Yes maybe with a new advanced engineering but at the end we can know only if we can test both TT’s with with all the same surrounded items. It's almost imposible to say for sure if that new engineering really improved its quality performance levels over the one in this link."

I am aware of the designer being involved with both Micro Seiki and TechDas but the TechDas has many updates and is quite different.  Larry Shinoda was one of the principal designers of the C2 Corvette and the Boss 302 Mustang but they are very different cars.

 

Y'all take care,

Robert

I owned the AFIII and its a fabulous table. Comparing it to the Micro Seiki from 50 yrs ago is like saying a ’70s Mercedes is exactly like one from 2023. Ohh puhleeze..It seems everyone wants the CliffsNotes version of Consumer Reports to make purchasing decisions. Its not that simple, you actually have to own the gear to give meaningful advice. That said, I’d put my money on a 21st century TechDas and not look back.