Tannoy Stirlings on the way!

@grinccaffe 

Not cheap, but sounds pretty reasonable, considering everything that went into them.  Thanks.

Been enjoying my Stirling GR's since 2019....no stands, subwoofers, etc.  Just a great amp, decent source and cabling is all I need - just as Tannoy intended them.  Best sound I ever had over and done - SNAP!

Nice! Glad you're still enjoying them.

Well, I've been absent from this thread for some time. And believe called out for it. My computer went down and any interaction with this forum was conducted using my iphone. Hate typing lengthy documents on it. Also, for several reasons have not been spending much time with my audio system.  One of the several is that I am building another house on my property into which my wife and I will move. I will have a dedicated audio room therein. Hoping to move the system into this home late this winter and then have opportunity to enjoy more audio sessions.  In the interim I sold my BEL 1001 MK5, and due to opportunities I couldn't refuse purchased a Pass XA25 in May and an Aric Audio Transcend tube amplifier in November. 

Getting back to the focus of this thread, I can say that I do enjoy the Sterlings however realize  I have much yet to discover.  At this point I believe both amps play well with them. The new room is a little larger with better dimensions which should allow them to open up, providing a wider/deeper soundstage. Once the move is made I will get back with my thoughts. Please don't expect a lengthy review as that is not my intent. I have tinnitus and am not sure of its value to others should I provide one. 

Thanks for a great thread!

@mesch 

That's some big doings!  Congrats on the house and the new amps.  A dedicated listening room is awesome.  Your Stirlings will thank you, I imagine.

Yes, right now enjoying the Sterlings as played by the Aric Audio Transcend with KT120 tubes. 

I should add that my choice on the Sterlings was driven not only by sonic criterion. I love the way they look and that they have a very sturdy grill that snaps in place to protect drivers. I have 3 grandkids that live with me half time. Ages 5 and 6.  

Hey, for premium prices, you ought to get something you like to both see and hear. The grills and general "old timey" looks appealed to me, too.

The Prestige oiled walnut cabinets become more beautiful with age, too. If you wax them once a year or so. The Liberon Black Bison paste wax (Walnut color) is what you want - exactly the same as the stuff Tannoy ships. Other waxes use solvents with a noxious scent; no good for a living room application. 

Big thanks muveling!  Looks like it's readily available a few places.  I've only waxed mine once since 2019 and the factory supplied will be gone in another application or so.  Curious, where did you order yours?

+1 pehare. Thanks muveling.

@pehare

Amazon.com. I’ve got 1.5 Liters of the stuff now lol. No more stressing over the Tannoy tin getting low. Did my first wax application with it a few weeks ago. It’s EXACTLY the Tannoy stuff.

Finally got a good tipoff on what they use / relabel. I’d bought Briwax before in an attempt to find the right Tannoy wax replacement, and that stuff is awful - very noxious fumes, more runny due to the harsh toluene solvent used - not OK for an indoor home application (didn’t even try to use it). The Liberon paste has that wonderful Tannoy smell.

@mulveling 

Thanks for your recommendation. I was running low on my usual Howard CS4014 Citrus Shield Paste Wax (Walnut). I am going to try the Liberon next. I also recommend buying CLARK'S Oil & Wax Large Block Applicator. I am in 4th year of Canterbury’s ownership and the wood grain never looked so exquisite. 

@lalitk
Same! Got my Canterbury GR just over 4 years ago. I upgraded from the SE, and was initially depressed how blonde and dry the new GR wood looked next to the 5-year old SE. Now the GR wood looks like my old SE did. It only takes a few wax applications over the years, but this seems to help a lot.

Incidentally I just re-bought my old SE, from the guy I sold them to. Man is their wood pretty now. Got spare tweeter sets (the most likely part to have issues) for those SE and the GR - with so much doubt around what’s happening to Tannoy, I’m ensuring I’ll at least have a lifetime supply 😂

I just buy a cheap pack of 100% cotton white t-shirts from WalMart for the wax application. A proper applicator might help for a smooth and even finish, though.

@mulveling

LOL! I was just thinking the same and hoping to score a deal on Westminster Royal GR’s. The Canterbury’s wouldn’t be a bad idea for second system :-)

Add my thanks, @mulveling !

Now what's all this about the future of Tannoy?

I'd like to revisit the question of amplification for these speakers.  What about something like a low-power class A amp?  The Pass Labs XA-25, say, or the INT-25?

@trentmemphis

I am over the moon with Accuphase E-650 Integrated (Class A - 30W) powering my Canterbury’s. I also auditioned the darTZeel CTH-8550 and T+A PA 3100 HV (both integrated) in my system but end up preferring the E-650.

Accuphase kit interests me, but I've never heard any of it.  From what I've read/heard people say, it seems like they have an atypical class-A sound; cooler, flatter, a bit recessed by comparison.  I'm working from memory here, but I think that's a pretty fair summary of what I've seen.  None of that is inherently bad.  It all depends on the rest of the system and the room and the listener's preference.  It's just atypical for class A.

Have you found that to be the case with it driving your Canterbury's? 

TM-Steve Guttenberg visited Nelson Pass and did a 3 part youtube video

a couple years ago. 

Reason I mention it is that it you may help you decide on an amp.

 Hint- Pass voices his amps using modified Tannoys.

Pass also refers to his amps as somewhat  "tubey" sounding. 

Maybe the reason Steve at Decware did not respond is that his company

is working on a 800 unit backlog of orders last I checked. So if I was buying

from them now I would not be worried about an ignored email but rather

what stresses are added to his construction process and will they be detrimental

to the QC or SQ.

I had a Carey Tube amp and an Audible Illusions preamp powering my Tannoy

FSMs. Sound was great but while the one the amps was in for repair

I ran across a set of Pass Amp Camp mini Monoblocks-6 wpc- for $300 assembled.

After hearing the added detail I decided to buy an XA25 used. Loved it then

shopped for a pre and decided to just buy the INT25. Had it 14 months now

and do not think I need go back to the Tube grind.

Although you may lose some detail and bass with tubes, you do get some extra magic which sometimes makes me wonder. 

So I have a pair of stand mounts in on trial now. Thought was to a/b them 

to the Tannoys and see if I could enjoy some sort of a new "Beryllium" sound

and placate the wife with a smaller replacement. She bought in suspiciously

quickly.

FYI- I do employ a REL Tx5 sub with the Tannoys. Not so much for the extra depth

but for the enhanced soundstage. Love that little guy and it is so small the wife

hardly notices.  2 1/2 weeks left on the new speaker trial. May have to keep them

both. Will post again in early Feb. as deadline approaches.

One last thing for TM- The new Luxman INTs I have heard sounded pretty

darn good. Love to have someone a/b  Pass to Lux. on the Class A sound.

I wonder if your Mac and the Tannoy might be too warm/passing up too much

material? Not familiar with that Mac.

Sorry for the novel but I think I had something for several posters.

GO TANNOY!!!!

I own a Pass XA25 and it  has more than enough power to  drive my Sterlings.

@trentmemphis 

Have Cheviots with Luxman 590AX.

Lots of power. Smooth, but still a lot of punch when needed. Tons of versatility if that matters. Phono, separate, loudness, tone controls etc.

Regarding low-power Pass on Sterlings: I had an XA30.5  (and XP-10) with Turnberry. The combination was a bit on the anemic and slow side. I am now using Benchmark AHB2 and HPA4 with much better results. Far less strain, much bigger/taller images, etc.

“Accuphase kit interests me, but I've never heard any of it.  From what I've read/heard people say, it seems like they have an atypical class-A sound; cooler, flatter, a bit recessed by comparison“

@trentmemphis 

Accuphase sounds nothing like your generalization of a component you never heard. I can only speak to E-650 Integrated that I’ve come to treasure over past 2 plus years. To my ears, it has a slightly warm (SET like) sound that is smooth yet suave with unfatiguing tonality.

The E-650 liquidity with vocals in also unmistakable. I could easily pick out the dense texture and richness of vocal harmonies on one hand and its resolution and transparency on the other. The voices blends beautifully with arrangements without congealing; the rendering of space is exemplary not just in width and depth but more importantly in the precise placement of images within the soundstage. Notably, instruments are presented as individual objects spatially and texturally, making it easy to clearly hear individual parts within the whole. That’s one quality that a meticulously designed component does well; to hear it to this degree from an integrated amplifier is quite astonishing and rewarding. Once you hear the E-650 textural beauty, resolution and liquidity, it becomes very hard to walk away :-) 

Good luck with your journey! 

Thanks for all the input, everybody.  I truly appreciate it.  Lots to think about.

@lalitk 

I think there may be a bit of a misunderstanding.  I didn't actually make a "generalization about a component [I] never heard."  Because I haven't heard it, I made a generalization about what I've seen/heard others say about it.  That was all I could do.  If it came across otherwise, it wasn't intentional.

@trentmemphis 

It’s all good. I just want you to make an informed decision based on actual user experience. I realize no two systems are alike but you and I share speakers that are cut from same cloth and I want you to enjoy Stirling’s to the max. They are very special speakers, the kind you hang on to rest of life, I know my Canterbury’s are not going anywhere :-) 

I think I’m going to stay with what I’ve got, for now. I am awfully curious about how these sound with, say, tube amps, but I’m not finding anything out there that meets all my criteria, so I think I’ll just plow that money into the house fund. (A house with a dedicated listening room!)

Hello, I bought a pair of Kensington a few months ago, and for the first time I used Liberon Black Bison paste wax, how do you guys get the stick out! after five days open windows lost of cold air and they still stink.

This wax made me sick, it has a very high VOCs rating which I did not see the label because it was hidden under the sellers sticker. 

If you have kids, pets, suffer from asthma or have sensitive lungs stay away from it.

I haven't waxed mine, yet, so I can't speak to that problem.  All I can suggest is as much air circulation as you can arrange, and open windows (weather permitting).  All those VOCs gotta have somewhere to go besides up your nose.

@astolfor 

I'm really surprised by that. I think it smells lovely. I've treated a few times with Tannoy's wax and once with the Liberon Black Bison (exact same thing), and always enjoyed the smell the next few days with no ill effect. I suppose everyone has different sensitivity levels to chemicals. The Briwax crap is the one that would've choked me out, had I applied it.

Well, I went and did it.  I'm now on the list at Decware to get a Zen Torii Mk. V.  (I'm guessing it'll be a year, at least, before I actually get it.)  If you're not familiar, the Torii is a zero-feedback, push-pull circuit designed to behave -- or at least sound -- like a single-ended one, while putting out 20wpc.  I looked at all their different models, including the SETs, and landed on the Torii as the best fit for me.  I also looked at Icon Audio, the Line Magnetic components, Cary Audio, etc., but I kept coming back to the Torii.  I can't say I'm excited, exactly, to hear it with my Stirlings; that's too far off in the future.  But I am looking forward to hearing it.

In the more near-term, I also upgraded my digital front end. I've been using a bel canto streamer with the Mac preamp's DAC module.  That module is no slouch; it's a fully balanced design, using ESS chips.  But, I've always wanted to try an R2R DAC.  I like what I hear about them.  So I've got a Denafrips Pontus II on the way.  Pretty excited about that. 

Also on the way is a Hifi Rose RS250 streamer to replace the bel canto.  Frankly, that's mostly about the user interface.  I don't use the DAC in the bel canto, and I won't use the one in the RS250, either, so neither unit is contributing anything to the sound.  (OTOH, I am stuck using an RCA coax connection from the bel canto to the Mac pre, and with the new stuff I can run USB from the RS250 to the Pontus, and a fully balanced analog signal from there to the Mac.)  Mainly I wanted something with a display that shows track information, album art, etc., and the RS250 has a nice one.

So, my Stirlings will soon be getting fed better, and a while down the road, maybe quite a bit better.  Here's hoping they reward me for it. 😁

@trentmemphis

Awesome! That might just be the sweet spot on Tannoys for many people. I haven’t tried SET but I KNOW I need at least 20 Watts. I’ve hit the limits on 25 Watts, 35 Watts, and even 75 Watts (that one only by accident) on 93dB Kensingtons (which I owned 10 years back). 25 Watts was more than ample for > 99% of listening, though - and way more than enough for most rock & pop without large dynamic swings. High dynamic range classical (which is not something I listen to often) at high volumes is where it ran out.

The EL34, 5881, 6L6, KT66 - these are gorgeous sounding tubes; it’s really hard to make an amp that doesn’t sound great with these. And they will sound amazing from first watt to the very LAST watt. I had tried all of these types with the Kenstingons on a few restored vintage amps (Heathkits, Eicos), and you’re gonna love the beautiful lush sound they render on Tannoys.

Thanks, @mulveling !

I thought about ordering a pair of mono SETs, which gives you 6wpc instead of 2.3, but in the end decided I’d prefer something with a bit more juice. I knew some of you guys said you ran into problems with lower wattage amps, and also I wanted to reasonably be able to try tubes with some of my other, less sensitive speakers. I watch the meters on my Mac amp sometimes, and it rarely bounces up to 15 watts, much less beyond that, so I think I’ll be covered with 20 when driving the Tannoys, at least.

As for the tubes themselves, that’s something I’ll be starting from zero knowledge on. I had a BAT preamp 25 or so years ago, but never futzed with the tubes before selling it. Then I picked up a 2nd-hand Jolida phono stage a few years after that, but it stopped working before I really had time to try tube rolling.

I did a little poking around on the internet last night, just trying to get a feel for what tubes are available of the types used in the Torii. Found some in the 4 output tube families you mentioned. Only one 7027 and no 807s, though. On the input side, I found some 6922s, but almost nothing from the 6DJ8 or 7DJ8 families. Seems like the AX7s and AU7s are used a lot more commonly. Could be I’m just not looking at the right sites.

How’s the bookshelf evaluation going, @chorus ?

TM- After 3 weeks of covid I finally finished my evaluation.

The bookshelves were excellent on the top end with a 

beryllium tweeter. the 7" mid woofers produced an accurate

fast bass.

But in the end the Midrange of the Tannoys was missing.

I returned them today. Sadly someone bought my Tannoys

two days on the market.

I am back to shopping again!

Ick.  Sorry to hear about the COVID.  Glad you're back on your feet.

That's a shame they sold your Tannoys already.  I guess I missed that you had traded them in.  I thought you were doing a side-by-side comparison with the monitors and were going to return them if they didn't work out.  What do you figure you're shopping for?  Another set of Tannoys, or something else?  They do make those little monitors.  I don't know much about them, other than that they do have the same design as the rest of the Prestige line.  No idea what kind of bass they produce.  Them and a compact sub might be more agreeable to the missus, though.

It's a certain sound right? I've been curious about how the wave guide could take over at like 1000 hz in some models? I like mids with PUNCH but I've also heard pure horns sound so beautiful that I would sacrifice that punch. Is that kind of the case with Tannoy?  

It’s a certain sound right? I’ve been curious about how the wave guide could take over at like 1000 hz in some models? I like mids with PUNCH but I’ve also heard pure horns sound so beautiful that I would sacrifice that punch. Is that kind of the case with Tannoy?

@bjesien

The Tannoys which crossover at 1100 Hz use the older "pepper-pot" waveguide an alnico magnets rather than the newer "tulip" waveguides (which cross over higher) with ceramic magnets. The pepper-pot’s tweeter diaphragm is a replaceable part strapped onto the back of a compression chamber. The actual horn/waveguide is steel and somewhat substantial. The tulip’s replaceable tweeter includes the waveguide, which is much shorter and lighter (a few inches). Pepper pots come only in Kensington, Canterbury, Westminster, the Definition 10A, and I believe (maybe) a special very limited run of Turnberry (normal Turnberrys are tulip). The old vintage Tannoy drivers - Black, Silver, Gold, HPD - are pepperpots w/ alnico magnets. Tannoy switched to ceramic magnets (like everyone) around the 70s/80s when there was strife in the Congo and Cobalt supply went out. I guess the more compact ceramic magnets opened up more design possibilities which eventually led to the tulip design? Also, ever since the 80s, alnico is EXPENSIVE.

For comparison, a full replacement Glenair 10" tulip driver (woofer and tweeter) cost about $380 whereas a full Kensington 10" pepper-pot driver cost a few thousand. Why the expense? They have a huge alnico magnet basket on the back: the pepperpot and compression driver chamber operate inside this magnetic flux, which they share with the woofer coil (I think the pepperpot itself serves as a pole piece to focus the magnetic flux? magnets are still a mystery to me lol). The tulips use regular (and I believe separate) ceramic magnets (cheap), with these waveguides and magnets being much shorter. I believe the large alnico magnet ALSO dictates the low crossover frequency of these models - the long length from the alnico magnet and pepper-pot horn should match the half wavelength of that 1100 Hz crossover frequency (about 6 inches), so that by simply reversing polarity of the tweeter wires it can be in perfect phase with the woofer at that frequency! This gives these Tannoy drivers "phase coherence" at crossover without ANY added crossover complexity. Very cool.

As for the pepper vs. tulip’s impact on sound? Hard to say for sure across multiple models, as each cabinet design and driver size (not to mention crossover) has quite an impact on a Tannoy’s overall sound. What I’ve noticed is that the pepper designs have a more vibrant, rich, lively sound, especially in the midrange. The tulips are perhaps more technically neutral and even-handed. Certainly some might prefer tulips - but I find the pepper’s sound more exciting, warts and all: they can bite your ears with a couple treble peaks if you’re not careful - or even if your are careful, haha. The Canterbury SE is an example of a pepper driver with a darker overall voicing (the Canterbury GR, Kensington SE and Yorkminster SE are not dark like this), but the vibrance of the pepper pot still shines fully through in any case, so long as you don’t suffocate it with bad gear pairings. The older pepper pots before GR series had trouble extending to 20kHz, so you see these frequently paired with supertweeters - make no mistake, the Tannoy supertweeters have a very noticeable effect on the audible range (one which you may or may not like)!

@mulveling 

Great write up.

My 1978 Berkeley's have the 15 inch alnico pepperpot driver but apart from the fact that I remember reading that they crossed over around 1kHz I don't really know that much about them.

So it looks as if the tweeter is covering most of the midrange, or am I missing something else?

My 1978 Berkeley's have the 15 inch alnico pepperpot driver but apart from the fact that I remember reading that they crossed over around 1kHz I don't really know that much about them.

So it looks as if the tweeter is covering most of the midrange, or am I missing something else?

Yep the alnico/pepperpot tweeter covers a lot of midrange. And the 15" woofer covers a lot of upper midrange! I think the woofer suffers some degree of "beaming" at that point, but at 15" diameter it's a pretty large "beam", and this transition at 1100 Hz is further aided by the controlled dispersion pattern of the horn tweeter. A pretty amazingly balanced and considered design, for having its origins in the 1940s!

The tweeter has a 2" inverted dome metal diaphragm and 2" voice coil, which is well suited to going down that low AND handling the higher power levels. Where it's less stellar is in hitting 20kHz and beyond. The GR series tweeters seem to be improved at this. The tulip tweeters use a smaller dome and can extend past 20kHz.

Interesting.  I thought all the Prestige GR models used alnico magnets.

@trentmemphis

Interesting. I thought all the Prestige GR models used alnico magnets.

Nope, in the last few modern series Tannoys, alnico models are distinguished by the pretty gold/orange colored horn (the strangely named pepperpot), with an empty/open throat until it reaches the back "pepper" holes drilled through to the compression chamber. The tulip waveguides are visually distinguished by their inner concentric circles, and always use ceramic magnets.

The good news for tulip driver owners is that replacement drivers cost a LOT less 😅 FYI I bought spare Canterbury GR drivers to the tune of $7K. The Glenair 10" tulips were like $600.

I'll be darned. You sent me back to look at the manual. Sure enough, it says the magnets are barium ferrite.  Dunno if that's the same thing you're calling "ceramic," but it certainly is not alnico.

Ceramic magnets are often used as a synonym for the kind of ferrite magnets ubiquitous to speakers. From online:

Ceramic (ferrite) magnets are composed of strontium carbonate and iron oxide. ... After the molding process, the magnetic material is then sintered at about 2,000°F. The sintering process is similar to that of kilning ceramic pottery, thus the popular name “ceramic” magnet.

I don’t know whether Tannoy’s barium ferrite magnets qualify as typical of "ceramic" magnets, but it looks like the nomenclature is based on a loose association (by processing) anyways! I assume the sintering process is extremely efficient at fashioning the kind of magnetic ring useful for speakers.

Interesting. Sintering came up in a different context, recently.  I'm thinking about getting a new cartridge.  One of the ones I'm looking at is the E.A.T. Jo No. 5.  The body of that cart is made by laser sintering some kind of powdered organic compound.

@mulveling thank you for the detailed information. I learned more about these speakers in your few concise paragraphs than all the videos and articles I’ve read.  Appreciate you taking the time. 

@mulveling Totally fascinating writeup thanks but I have a question, why couldn't they pair an Alnico magnet with the tulip waveguide? Or is it just tradition or users prefer the pepper pot sound?

@mulveling Totally fascinating writeup thanks but I have a question, why couldn’t they pair an Alnico magnet with the tulip waveguide? Or is it just tradition or users prefer the pepper pot sound?

I’m not entirely sure of that answer (I’m not an expert just a hobbyist trying to learn about the speakers I love), but my guess is that with ferrite magnets being stronger per mass / volume than alnico, the use of alnico necessitates a much larger & longer magnet to reach the desired flux density in the (very small) voice coil gaps. The pole pieces focus the entire magnet’s strength into the voice coil gaps. Each waveguide has been optimized to work with the lengths of magnet dictated by either type, so mixing them up would NOT produce good results.

Tulip / ferrite driver cross section - note the use of dual magnets (the medium gray rectangles) and the fact that each magnet is very short!

Pepperpot / alnico - one LONG magnet’s entire strength is focused onto both voice coils by the pole piece arrangements:

One more note on replacement driver costs - when I said the alnico drivers cost a LOT more, that is true - but only for the WHOLE driver. The replacement tweeters contain only the diaphragm and voice coil, and are quite affordable to replace (at most a couple hundred bucks each). I've had this done on my prior Kenstingtons. Since this is the most likely part to fail or degrade in a Tannoy driver (and indeed, it's happened to me), this is a good arrangement. The tulip tweeters include the waveguide and the tweeter magnet, and I think they actually cost a little more than the pepperpot tweeters. 

That all makes good sense.  Great stuff.

Only problem is now I want to upgrade to Kensingtons! lol  I have some kind of romantic attachment to alnico magnets.

Only problem is now I want to upgrade to Kensingtons! lol I have some kind of romantic attachment to alnico magnets.

@trentmemphis Sometimes I feel like I could’ve just been happy sticking with the Kensington SEs and a sweet sounding tube amp like 13 years ago lol. They are a wonderful speaker. Then I heard the Definition 10A, with same driver (oops - that one has the real alnico / pepperpot but it's not gold colored) but in modern cabinets with reflex loading that seem like they should be VASTLY superior acoustically, and they didn’t do it for me - bright, lost the charm? Something about those old English vented cabinets, I guess.