Tannoy Stirlings on the way!

The Prestige oiled walnut cabinets become more beautiful with age, too. If you wax them once a year or so. The Liberon Black Bison paste wax (Walnut color) is what you want - exactly the same as the stuff Tannoy ships. Other waxes use solvents with a noxious scent; no good for a living room application. 

@lalitk
Same! Got my Canterbury GR just over 4 years ago. I upgraded from the SE, and was initially depressed how blonde and dry the new GR wood looked next to the 5-year old SE. Now the GR wood looks like my old SE did. It only takes a few wax applications over the years, but this seems to help a lot.

Incidentally I just re-bought my old SE, from the guy I sold them to. Man is their wood pretty now. Got spare tweeter sets (the most likely part to have issues) for those SE and the GR - with so much doubt around what’s happening to Tannoy, I’m ensuring I’ll at least have a lifetime supply 😂

I just buy a cheap pack of 100% cotton white t-shirts from WalMart for the wax application. A proper applicator might help for a smooth and even finish, though.

@pehare

Amazon.com. I’ve got 1.5 Liters of the stuff now lol. No more stressing over the Tannoy tin getting low. Did my first wax application with it a few weeks ago. It’s EXACTLY the Tannoy stuff.

Finally got a good tipoff on what they use / relabel. I’d bought Briwax before in an attempt to find the right Tannoy wax replacement, and that stuff is awful - very noxious fumes, more runny due to the harsh toluene solvent used - not OK for an indoor home application (didn’t even try to use it). The Liberon paste has that wonderful Tannoy smell.

@astolfor 

I'm really surprised by that. I think it smells lovely. I've treated a few times with Tannoy's wax and once with the Liberon Black Bison (exact same thing), and always enjoyed the smell the next few days with no ill effect. I suppose everyone has different sensitivity levels to chemicals. The Briwax crap is the one that would've choked me out, had I applied it.

@trentmemphis

Awesome! That might just be the sweet spot on Tannoys for many people. I haven’t tried SET but I KNOW I need at least 20 Watts. I’ve hit the limits on 25 Watts, 35 Watts, and even 75 Watts (that one only by accident) on 93dB Kensingtons (which I owned 10 years back). 25 Watts was more than ample for > 99% of listening, though - and way more than enough for most rock & pop without large dynamic swings. High dynamic range classical (which is not something I listen to often) at high volumes is where it ran out.

The EL34, 5881, 6L6, KT66 - these are gorgeous sounding tubes; it’s really hard to make an amp that doesn’t sound great with these. And they will sound amazing from first watt to the very LAST watt. I had tried all of these types with the Kenstingons on a few restored vintage amps (Heathkits, Eicos), and you’re gonna love the beautiful lush sound they render on Tannoys.

It’s a certain sound right? I’ve been curious about how the wave guide could take over at like 1000 hz in some models? I like mids with PUNCH but I’ve also heard pure horns sound so beautiful that I would sacrifice that punch. Is that kind of the case with Tannoy?

@bjesien

The Tannoys which crossover at 1100 Hz use the older "pepper-pot" waveguide an alnico magnets rather than the newer "tulip" waveguides (which cross over higher) with ceramic magnets. The pepper-pot’s tweeter diaphragm is a replaceable part strapped onto the back of a compression chamber. The actual horn/waveguide is steel and somewhat substantial. The tulip’s replaceable tweeter includes the waveguide, which is much shorter and lighter (a few inches). Pepper pots come only in Kensington, Canterbury, Westminster, the Definition 10A, and I believe (maybe) a special very limited run of Turnberry (normal Turnberrys are tulip). The old vintage Tannoy drivers - Black, Silver, Gold, HPD - are pepperpots w/ alnico magnets. Tannoy switched to ceramic magnets (like everyone) around the 70s/80s when there was strife in the Congo and Cobalt supply went out. I guess the more compact ceramic magnets opened up more design possibilities which eventually led to the tulip design? Also, ever since the 80s, alnico is EXPENSIVE.

For comparison, a full replacement Glenair 10" tulip driver (woofer and tweeter) cost about $380 whereas a full Kensington 10" pepper-pot driver cost a few thousand. Why the expense? They have a huge alnico magnet basket on the back: the pepperpot and compression driver chamber operate inside this magnetic flux, which they share with the woofer coil (I think the pepperpot itself serves as a pole piece to focus the magnetic flux? magnets are still a mystery to me lol). The tulips use regular (and I believe separate) ceramic magnets (cheap), with these waveguides and magnets being much shorter. I believe the large alnico magnet ALSO dictates the low crossover frequency of these models - the long length from the alnico magnet and pepper-pot horn should match the half wavelength of that 1100 Hz crossover frequency (about 6 inches), so that by simply reversing polarity of the tweeter wires it can be in perfect phase with the woofer at that frequency! This gives these Tannoy drivers "phase coherence" at crossover without ANY added crossover complexity. Very cool.

As for the pepper vs. tulip’s impact on sound? Hard to say for sure across multiple models, as each cabinet design and driver size (not to mention crossover) has quite an impact on a Tannoy’s overall sound. What I’ve noticed is that the pepper designs have a more vibrant, rich, lively sound, especially in the midrange. The tulips are perhaps more technically neutral and even-handed. Certainly some might prefer tulips - but I find the pepper’s sound more exciting, warts and all: they can bite your ears with a couple treble peaks if you’re not careful - or even if your are careful, haha. The Canterbury SE is an example of a pepper driver with a darker overall voicing (the Canterbury GR, Kensington SE and Yorkminster SE are not dark like this), but the vibrance of the pepper pot still shines fully through in any case, so long as you don’t suffocate it with bad gear pairings. The older pepper pots before GR series had trouble extending to 20kHz, so you see these frequently paired with supertweeters - make no mistake, the Tannoy supertweeters have a very noticeable effect on the audible range (one which you may or may not like)!

My 1978 Berkeley's have the 15 inch alnico pepperpot driver but apart from the fact that I remember reading that they crossed over around 1kHz I don't really know that much about them.

So it looks as if the tweeter is covering most of the midrange, or am I missing something else?

Yep the alnico/pepperpot tweeter covers a lot of midrange. And the 15" woofer covers a lot of upper midrange! I think the woofer suffers some degree of "beaming" at that point, but at 15" diameter it's a pretty large "beam", and this transition at 1100 Hz is further aided by the controlled dispersion pattern of the horn tweeter. A pretty amazingly balanced and considered design, for having its origins in the 1940s!

The tweeter has a 2" inverted dome metal diaphragm and 2" voice coil, which is well suited to going down that low AND handling the higher power levels. Where it's less stellar is in hitting 20kHz and beyond. The GR series tweeters seem to be improved at this. The tulip tweeters use a smaller dome and can extend past 20kHz.

@trentmemphis

Interesting. I thought all the Prestige GR models used alnico magnets.

Nope, in the last few modern series Tannoys, alnico models are distinguished by the pretty gold/orange colored horn (the strangely named pepperpot), with an empty/open throat until it reaches the back "pepper" holes drilled through to the compression chamber. The tulip waveguides are visually distinguished by their inner concentric circles, and always use ceramic magnets.

The good news for tulip driver owners is that replacement drivers cost a LOT less 😅 FYI I bought spare Canterbury GR drivers to the tune of $7K. The Glenair 10" tulips were like $600.

Ceramic magnets are often used as a synonym for the kind of ferrite magnets ubiquitous to speakers. From online:

Ceramic (ferrite) magnets are composed of strontium carbonate and iron oxide. ... After the molding process, the magnetic material is then sintered at about 2,000°F. The sintering process is similar to that of kilning ceramic pottery, thus the popular name “ceramic” magnet.

I don’t know whether Tannoy’s barium ferrite magnets qualify as typical of "ceramic" magnets, but it looks like the nomenclature is based on a loose association (by processing) anyways! I assume the sintering process is extremely efficient at fashioning the kind of magnetic ring useful for speakers.

Only problem is now I want to upgrade to Kensingtons! lol I have some kind of romantic attachment to alnico magnets.

@trentmemphis Sometimes I feel like I could’ve just been happy sticking with the Kensington SEs and a sweet sounding tube amp like 13 years ago lol. They are a wonderful speaker. Then I heard the Definition 10A, with same driver (oops - that one has the real alnico / pepperpot but it's not gold colored) but in modern cabinets with reflex loading that seem like they should be VASTLY superior acoustically, and they didn’t do it for me - bright, lost the charm? Something about those old English vented cabinets, I guess.

@mulveling Totally fascinating writeup thanks but I have a question, why couldn’t they pair an Alnico magnet with the tulip waveguide? Or is it just tradition or users prefer the pepper pot sound?

I’m not entirely sure of that answer (I’m not an expert just a hobbyist trying to learn about the speakers I love), but my guess is that with ferrite magnets being stronger per mass / volume than alnico, the use of alnico necessitates a much larger & longer magnet to reach the desired flux density in the (very small) voice coil gaps. The pole pieces focus the entire magnet’s strength into the voice coil gaps. Each waveguide has been optimized to work with the lengths of magnet dictated by either type, so mixing them up would NOT produce good results.

Tulip / ferrite driver cross section - note the use of dual magnets (the medium gray rectangles) and the fact that each magnet is very short!

Pepperpot / alnico - one LONG magnet’s entire strength is focused onto both voice coils by the pole piece arrangements:

One more note on replacement driver costs - when I said the alnico drivers cost a LOT more, that is true - but only for the WHOLE driver. The replacement tweeters contain only the diaphragm and voice coil, and are quite affordable to replace (at most a couple hundred bucks each). I've had this done on my prior Kenstingtons. Since this is the most likely part to fail or degrade in a Tannoy driver (and indeed, it's happened to me), this is a good arrangement. The tulip tweeters include the waveguide and the tweeter magnet, and I think they actually cost a little more than the pepperpot tweeters. 

@astolfor

Agree, the Kensington and Canterbury models are both wonderful, yet I’m very happy with my upgrade to Canterbury :) And yeah, the Definition 10A was a real head-scratcher, sadly.

@jond

Sorry - I just remembered there was some discussion (audiokarma?) out there concerning Tannoy’s change over from alnico to ceramic/ferrite magnets, and I believe there actually were some Tannoy driver versions which married ferrite magnets to a pepperpot, which contradicts my prior response. I’ll try to look up what model that might have been (it was after the HPD). Looking again at the pepperpot cross section, it would probably be OK to use a short ferrite magnet with a long pole piece to make up for that...going the other way though - the tulip waveguide might not have enough room to work with the weaker & larger alnico magnets needed? Either way, the ferrite + pepperpot configuration is not made today. I'd also love to know whether that's due more to market demands (people in the market for classic Tannoy sound more often demand alnico) or due to Tannoy's opinion on the sound quality. 

@trentmemphis

The Stirlings are rated 91dB, so it’s an 8dB discrepancy on paper! I do appreciate that the Tannoy sensitivity specs indeed seem legit. I've noticed and enjoyed the greater efficiency when moving up in the line (91 to 93 to 96).

I tilt my Canterbury up a bit, and use a good amount of toe-in. It works for me, and sounds great. The image height is perfect. Stands tall enough to do the same job would mess with the aesthetic, and possibly introduce more resonance issues if they’re not extremely well made (heavy!).

I use HRS Nimbus spacers - basically solid aluminum hockey pucks with a small lip on top & bottom to accept the couplers - of differing height to create the tilt. The stock Canterbury GR spike feet & cups fit right in there.

I don’t see how a coaxial driver with symmetric dispersion and phase coherence (at the crossover point) is going to care at all whether tilted up or down or straight ahead. The bass response may be affected with tilt vs. stands, as it changes the bass driver’s coupling and proximity to the floor, but I don’t see why stands would necessarily be an improvement here either. I love the bass I get now.

Random thought: maybe those who love the stands have inadequate isolation for their components, and benefit from the decoupling effect of pedestal stands?