T+A DAC 200 or WEISS 501

@dougthebiker Ok, here are some key differences: A 300b amp would have a more gentle presentation than mine (BTW, what speakers?). I have a pair of AGD Tempo stereo amps bi-amping my Fyne F1-8s. The Tempos are very detailed and smooth, but not in the least bit shy... a bit forward compared to Pass, and I would bet a good bit more forward than your 300B amp. And the Fynes are similarly detailed. I want to replace my M3 because it is a bit too forward in my system, and at least so far the T+A has a very similar presentation. All summed in my system, just a bit too much of a good thing. I readily admit to being very sensitive to brightness. At one point I replaced the slightly aggressive tubes in my preamp with others for a more gentle presentation.

Regarding bass, yes, the T+A has plenty. But in my estimation it is like monitor speakers where there is an emphasis in the mid-bass. That is not so with the DS 2, and I think that is why my perception is better definition in the bass region with the DS 2. The very low frequencies are not masked by a hump an octave or two above.  My sub, BTW, is a KEF 9 something, and it really does reach the limits of hearing with authority. 

Anyway, I think the differences in our systems explains some of the differences in our perceptions of these DACs.

BTW, @ja_kub_sz made a great point.  The T+A has so much tight bass I had to turn my GR_Research sub down a couple of notches!

@markmuse The PS Audio DS 2 did get better with burn in.  It just never came close to the combo of the T+A 200 with the MP 200.  Nor did it rival the combo of the new Innuos Pulsar with the DAC 200, which was also very good.

The real magic is the combo of T+A DAC 200 plus the MP 200.  A staggering bargain IMO.

BTW, the T+A gear sounded much better in my listening room than at the dealer.  I'm running it into a 9W 300B tube integrated amp and through silver Gryphon speaker cables to GR-Research open baffle NX-Oticas.

I have both the T+A 200 and Mola Mola Tambaqui.

I'm still early in my evaluation of the T+A 200, but I can say without question it's bass presentation is quite substantial. I had to dial down my sub's by about 10% to quell the overwhelming boomy sound. I'll be honest I feel the MMT handles low frequency better then the 200, but I might possibly give the 200 the edge as far as far lateral left to right sound field width. When I say this I do mean very isolated far left to far right sounds appear to be coming from Beyond the speaker more so with the 200 then my MMT. However it's not even a question as far as holographics and center image generation the MMT is much more enjoyable in that regard than the 200.

The MMT is 3-5k more expensive then the 200 and to that I say the 200 is a great DAC, and it can handle DSD which is a draw especially with my SACD's.

I was interested in the 501, because of the DSP capability, but I was also very interested in the Meitner DAC MA3.

Now the MA3 and 501 being the roughly the same price I would definitely want to see these DAC's side by side to A/B them, but as interested as I am in these two DAC's, I am not interested in spending another $2,500 above what the 200 has to offer.

I demoed the T+A 200 against my Denafrips Terminator Plus 12th addition. The T+A was much more natural and pleasing to my ears. I put an order in for the T+A, sold the Terminator, and then things took a strange turn. Long story short, I sold all my gear and purchased a pair of Dutch & Dutch 8C's. I'm done upgrading and tweaking.

@dougthebiker 

thanks for that info, I’ve got about 100 hours signal time on both so far. Did you find the DS 2 lost detail as it burned in? My experience with DACs and most electronics is they open up and get smoother, but apparent detail improves. 

@mbmi Don't blink when referencing Huff, he seems to have move on from the T+A and settled in with the Weiss 204. He has moved on from the Aavik as well.

Here is his review of the Weiss 204 dac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4BXvyLOpY

Steve Huffs reference DAC is the T+A DAC 200 with his Aavik U-150 Integrated amp. He has had MANY DACs to review and he's more into the Musicality of gear than what the specs are. I'd go with the T+A.

BTW, all these DACs need at least 200 hours on them before they start to sound like themselves.  The PS Audio didn’t peak until about 400 hours.

@thibaultgeoui You have to trial the T+A MP 200 with the DAC 200.  They were designed as a pair and it makes a huge difference.  Be prepared, though, they connect with an Ethernet cable and you won’t want the use the one they supply.  Use at least an AudioQuest Vodka or equivalent and you’ll hear SQ that transcends the VERY expensive DACs.

 I also auditioned the PS Audio DS 2 and was disappointed in the amount of detail.  Sent it back.

I have the T+A DAC 200 in my system now on a trial basis. I am also trying the PS Audio DirectStream Mk2. I own the Bricasti M3, been using it for more than a year. In my system the T+A and M3 are similar, with a slight edge to the T+A in terms of detail.

The DS Mk2 on the other hand is more refined than either: smoother but with more micro-dynamics, resulting in better textures, detail, and separation of instruments; definitely more soundstage depth than the others; a larger soundstage; better definition in low frequencies.

I am not using the preamp feature in any of these. Unless things change dramatically I will be going with the PS Audio unit. I will say that the build quality on both the Bricasti and T+A is stellar. 

@dougthebiker how good is the MP streamer? I have the DAC 200 and i'm looking for a new streamer ... but for some reason the MP is not on my list ( i don't like having a CD ... ). 

I’ve had the T+A DAC 200 and the Weiss 501 in my system recently.  I’m buying the T+A along with the matching MP 200 streamer.  Together they are a totally different animal;  incredible detail, more than I’ve heard from from $50k DAC’s.  The soundstage is very wide and deep.  The Weiss, make no mistake, is a great DAC, it’s just a generation behind now.

and Ethernet switch if you stream the Innuos is Fantastic $37  but worth every penny  for me a must li borrowed my brothers when he went on vacation 

Can you explain what any of this means? I know what Innuos is but the rest is incomprehensible due to lack of punctuation and capitalization. I have a Dac 200 and am considering buying the matching streamer but am open to anything. I know the Innuos Zen sounds great but I don't care about storage and as an NAA it wasn't any better than a fanless miniPC.

I have heard the Weiss 501 same day with 3 other top dacs 

the T+A has much more flexibility built in like HQ player,

and adjustments. Sonically the T+A 200 is just much natural  try to find a dealer to. Audition or go listen I know 4 guys in our multi state audio get together that bought 

the T+A and I am saving for one ,I was going to buy the cheaper terminator 12th 

and the Term + a hair better. But the T+A makes much more sense 

and Ethernet switch if you stream the Innuos is Fantastic $37  but worth every penny  for me a must li borrowed my brothers when he went on vacation 

it makes all others sound broken ,it beat the synergistic pretty easy ,which I thought was excellent , got off track but since we were talking digital something to consider 

you can get for just over $3k 

I am with @lordmelton I am stand alone on my DAC. I have the Reference. 

https://www.lessloss.com/echos-end-p-218.html

Interesting.  I also looked at the T+A DH200 DAC.  The retailer wanted $7,125 + $600 for HDMI connection + 9.5% CA sales tax.  The Benchmark DAC is $2,399 and I like that the Benchmark DAC HAS 4 Sabre 9028PRO DAC’s, 2 per channel.  The signal is summed to reduce the noise and jitter.  This is Impressive technology and I am anxiously waiting for my DAC to arrive.

For my 2-channel home theatre application, the Benchmark DAC3 HGC DAC is a better deal.

@jasbirnandra , Like you I have to go blind - at least for now. And based on the information I gathered, I would go with the T+A DAC 200, if these were the only 2 DACs. For me the reasons are completely different. The primary being that the T+A can do DSD, while the Weiss cannot. I don't want to go into the discussion of PCM Vs DSD because that is not relevant here. But all my FLAC files are converted to 512 DSD before playback through the current DAC. Hence the T+A. TBH, I would be content even with the older T+A DAC 8 DSD, which is not made anymore. But they are hard to come by on used market since they are coveted for their DSD playback.

I believe one of the dealers on this forum has a demo Weiss unit that can be tested out at home.

the features, the sound, the small footprint

i am sure you are aware of the manifold features of the 501, so i won’t bother repeating them ad nauseum here

https://twitteringmachines.com/weiss-dac501-beauty-with-brains/ -- m lavorna is an excellent writer, great ears too, covers the needed ground here

@jjss49 what exactly did you liked so much about the 501 can you please highlight to understand if your preference meets mine

with no exaggeration, i have tried (in my own system) some50 dacs since early 2020 (ranging from a few hundred $ to many thousand $)

the weiss 501 is one (of a handful) i have kept, i value its very rich feature set, its small footprint, and its spacious, precise, energetic ’straight wire with gain’ nature of sound... yes, poor recordings will sound poor, there is little in the way of ’masking’ -- i do have other dacs that nicely color the sound, one way or another, but the weiss for me is truly a ’reference’ unit - i recently upgraded to the latest version ’4 ch’ with updated processor chip

i have not tried the t&a

take away from this input what you will

@blisshifi What DAC chip does the T+A 200 use

The DAC 200 can be set as a pure DAC as its volume control can be set to a line level output. I have demoed both and prefer the DAC 200, but take that as you will as I am a T+A dealer. 

The DAC 200 has a wider bandwidth resulting in a wider, deeper soundstage. It is also a bit more organic and revealing in character. The 501 becomes more worth it if you take advantage of its room correction capabilities, but sometimes it as a bit more of a sterile sonic signature, obviously sucking some of the color that your room adds to the final result. I have typically shied away from DSP room correction because of this. 

@lordmelton there is no way to demo one in india 

I have to buy blind and my setup is pilium Leonidas integrated amp with lumin U2 mini and currently Canary DAC which I think is the bottleneck

@jasbirnandra The T200 comes very highly recommend by many here as the best value DAC under $15k.

Much depends on your system of course and you need a demo.

@lordmelton I do not need a pre amp feature because of the integrated amp I use II do need a pure DAC only but am not sure what  should choose for a transparent and dense musical bliss.

My choice would be neither because they both have pre-amps and the Weiss has a renderer, I would choose a pure DAC without anything else.

The reasons to choose the Weiss against the T200 come down to size and it's 4ch processing which I believe can be configured as a Hi & Low crossover.

It hosts a plethora of algos that are going to make your digital syrupy and completely coloured and untrue to the recording. Great if that's how you roll.

Beware it comes in MK1 & MK2 versions MK1 uses a really old ESS chip whilst the MK2 uses the ESS 9038 Pro. Previous top ESS chip, current is 9039 Pro.

I haven't heard the T200 so I will reserve judgement but it lacks appeal because it's not a pure DAC.