I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
First up was "MONK" by The the Peter Bernstein trio Peter Bernstein - guitar Doug Weiss Bass Bill Stewart Drums
This is warm, smooth music with Berstein's guitar having shades of Wes Montgomery and Kenny Burrell Solid, sober music. (Thanks Charles 1dad )
NEXT "THE PROSTHETIC CUBANS" Mark Ribot Guitar and trumpet Gregory Ribot Baritone SAX Rodriquez Drums and Percussion
Do not be fooled by the name of the band. These guys are ready for the Olympics in Rio next month. Explosive as a handful of grenades.You had better be standing when listening. Good quality recording. (Thanks Andynotadam)
THE MAIN EVENT:
JIM HALL "CONCIERTO" Jim Hall guitar Paul Desmond Alto Sax Chet Baker Trumpet Ron Carter Bass Roland Hanna Drums
This production is of Reference quality in every way. i have had this SACD version for a long time. It might not be easily available.
Frank, I cut my teeth on Blue Note recordings during my initial exposure to jazz recordings (vinyl and CD). This label definitely had many of the jazz icons early in their careers. Rudy Van Gelder during the 1950-60s was the recording engineer for Blue Note and Prestige. I must say that during this period the Prestige were consistently better sounding. Both labels provided excellent music. Charles,
If you are stil on this thread. Do you find it in a way more techical sounding, spread out the sounds within the stage clearly and evenly (which i found is the strongest point), doesnt really have shortcomings in any frequency range? Over the other fuse or fuses you used.
I feel that blacks and outlets does well technically overall, does sound organic in a neutral way that is , having less colours to the music.
These colours, not coloured sounding, may addto musial njoyment you are experiencing even if the are other areas which may fall short of the black fuse?
I got a big jump in sound quality by adding three Synergistic Research ECT's ( Electronic Circuit Transducers ) to the amp. One ECT near the rectifier tube, one near the driver tube, and one near the volume control. Other locations that had no effect or a negative effect were near the output tubes, near the transformers, near the power cord inlet, and on the sides of the amp.
With the ECT's in the right location, the soundstage greatly improved and the harmonics were much more musical. I have had a similar improvement using ECT's with the Art Audio PX-25 amp.
I think this is a fun and worthwhile experiment with a product that has a 30 day return policy.
That is a nice list of excellent sounding record labels. It is fascinating that some labels and their teams can produce great sounds are so many others just can't get it.
This weekend experimented wiht the 300B amp's sound.
Frank, Contemporary is one of my favorite historic/classic jazz labels along with Riverside, Prestige and Columbia Records. They all had terrific musicians and consistently good sound quality. Charles,
Oh my gawd! I just spewed my morning coffee all over my computer screen. You guys are too funny. "No Spaceman, its the new weed?" *lol* That explains a LOT.
Charles ... Yes, I have Shelly Manne's entire Blackhawk series on Vinyl. These are on the Contemporary label.
Contemporary recorded a ton of West Coast jazz and most of these recordings are very well done. I'd recommend them to anyone interested in great jazz and sound. The guys at Contemporary really cared about their products.
I have it on both vinyl and CD. The CD is excellent. Great sound and performance. It will have your head bobbin' and your toe tappin.'
It originally came out on the Crown label. As some record collectors know, Crown was a budget label. About one in ten of Crown's records sounded good. Most sounded terrible. A few sounded great. This is one of the great ones.
mapman 13,516 posts 07-15-2016 5:06pm "The other thing for sure is not everyone is floored by these things Is it possible the fuses they start with are as good or better? It can happen.
These are are realistic possibilities. Who’s to say what will happen case by case though?"
Only the tormented uncertain mind of the died-in-the-wool pseudo skeptic could come up with such an implausible steaming pile of compost.
The reasons why some audiophiles have difficulty hearing certain tweaks, especially controversial ones? Don't make me do it!
Nyame, Thanks very much for your kind comments I do appreciate them. This has been a very enjoyable thread for me and I see no reason for a few alternative opinions to change that. I surely respect their perspective but that's as far as it goes for me. What I hear has exponentially more impact than what someone else has to say.
David, yes "Blackhawk ", , not Black hole ☺. I've only had these recordings for about 20 years. That is one sweet system your mother listens to David. Charles,
Shelly Manne can really swing. Never flamboyant. Drives the song forward with a firm sense of rhythm. Most if his CD's are well recorded.
"Complete Live At The Black Hawk". A four CD set recorded over three days, 1959. This is Good stuff.
One of the rewarding projects for me is trying to improve the emotional satisfaction my 92 year old Mother achieves when listening to her audio system. She streams music via computer to an Antelope DAC outputted to an Emotive Limited Edition Type 45 Tube amp which powers Teresonic single driver speakers. She is legally blind, does not read audio reviews, and does not read Audiogon forum posts. What she does do is listen without prejudice. She A-B's a change and makes the decision "better or worse". What it costs, who makes it, how does it work, or do others use it is never discussed. She has no pride of ownership but does have pride in the quality of sound. She listens to music 4 hours a day.
She greatly enjoyed the improved sound obtained first with a Black fuse in the tube amp. Then she heard a further improvement when the Antelope DAC had it's two fuses replaced (one on the hot side and one on the neutral side). She noticed an immediate improvement in presence and as the week progressed commented on the music being more relaxed and flowed.
She had the same response when the SR Black outlets were installed. She preferred these outlets to Oyaide R1, and Furutech GTXD-R.
Many changes do not stay in the system. The Audioquest Jitterbug is gone. The Black Discus products are gone. The Teresonic Speaker cables are gone, etc.
Today she got the wonderful news that her oldest son's (age 69) most recent bone marrow biopsy was free of cancer. She called me at the hospital with the good news crying tears of joy only a Mother can know when her son's life has been spared. She then celebrated with listening to "her music".
I do hope all have a joyous weekend and do get to listen to some meaningful music.
"Charles.......you are always the gentleman in these discussions...... Its much appreciated by me, and that's for sure"
And by me too.. that's for sure. During the turbulence resulting from posts relating to Wolf- Garcia he has displayed calm, understanding, restraint, leadership and in fact statesmanship.
Hi Frank, Being the fan of West Coast jazz that you are, Do you have any of the "Shelly Manne And His Men At The Black hole " recordings? They are very good. Charles,
mapman 13,516 posts 07-15-2016 5:06pm Hmm well so far there would seem to be a definite correlation between what people actually pay for the fuse and what they hear.
Oh, I don’t know about that, flyboy. I can easily hear the difference when flipping direction of cheapo off the shelf fuses. You know, the ones that are about a dollar. When’s the last time you had your hearing checked? ;-)
There has never been a case in audio history that a died in the wool aggressive troll was ever able to hear the tweak he got so upset over. I suspect all this rancor and angst is simply a case of having totally psyched oneself out.
Jaffreeman…your concern with my informal writing style seems to be clouding your ability to absorb information…I, being the mensch I am, accept those who lack humor and am as compassionate toward them as any devout practicing athiest can be…you're welcome.
I assumed describing my experience with the fuses would engender criticism in this forum as it always has, but previously I hadn't used the SR Blacks so although I found SR's claims silly and the users descriptions of the benefits somewhat "over the top," I decided to give myself a shot at these things instead of simply stating my distaste of "magical" audio products in general. Note I didn't pay for the fuses (which were returned, including the blown ones) so I did lack the "let's see what MY 125 bucks sounds like" point of view…this might be important because if you think SR is a relevant force in audio you're more likely than I am to percieve that these things make a difference after the requisite break-in time, which as noted previously here can often be the same as ACTUAL sonic improvement over whatever you remember your system sounded like 140 hours previous to the installation of the SR fuses (allowing for fuse direction changes). So there's that. I might have needed a comma in there…In any case my test was what it was…I forgot to mention I put SR blacks in my subs also which in one case at least did result in a difference noted…that was another fuse blow incident (the difference being "no sound") witch when added to my 50 year or so "lifetime gear fuse incident" total for audio, guitar amp, and pro sound fuse trauma really skews those stats…not many lifetime fuse issues at all…hence the SR FUSES CAN BLOW warning…hope that point is clearer. I'll end this post with a thought…Simply try to remember what things actually are designed for when trying to make things better with fuses…they're fuses…if you feel they can influence the complex active signal chain in audio gear (which they' re inherently not part of) in anything they inhabit because others simply say they can and really really want you to agree (30 day money back return…DO IT NOW), have fun with that…hell, it could be a life style!
Papa I suspect it's mostly me with my ears having gone through a major training exercise last weekend at capital Audiofest and me listening more intently.
After all I'm just a human being not a microphone. My listening skills do not hold constant all the time.
Mapman, I can’t say that I’ve detected animosity from the advocates of the Black fuses, in fact they’ve been an usually cheerful group (for an open forum environment ). On the other side there’s only been a handful doubters, with true animosity displayed only from labtec. I haven’t perceived animosity from you (just skepticism ) and Wolf just being Wolf. IMO the overall demeanor here has been unquestionably positive and enjoyable. Keep it up gentlemen. Charles,
Ok, maybe it's the mean political season we're in--there's malice aforethought out there in the blog-o-sphere. I just had to jump all over Wolf, who has never taken anything we have said about SR fuses at face value. Real story or not---does it matter now? I like you, Wolf, like your humor, so keep on slinging it. It's all fun here--and the SRs, how could anyone be unhappy?
Just curious, why do some people either attribute goodness or blame everything on a fuse? I say this as a person with the SR Black in my ARC Ref 6 and 75se. When my system sounds great, I just don't think, "must be the fuse!". It is a subtle effect at best. Lots of other bigger factors at play...
As with most cases where extreme views are expressed the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.
If if one wants to drop hundreds of dollars on fuses more power to them. I'll never understand why but like anything in high end audio all that matters is satisfaction in the end for whatever reason real or otherwise.
At this point Al, wolf's material is getting a bit stale. He's like the stand-up comedian on stage in a nightclub who can't get a laugh because he keeps telling the same joke over and over.
The crowd just booed the last comedian known as Mr. Labtec off of the stage who thought he was being funny by pissing all over the audience.
You'd think these guys would learn.
At least, to Mr. Wolf's credit, he's a likable person. He's really made me laugh with his previous performances, but ... that was in a different nightclub. :-)
Now, back to the music ...
Robert (Mr. Record) is coming over tonight for a listening session. I've been breaking in the Von Gaylord speaker cables and two of Von Gaylord's IC's. These cables are bringing a whole new sense of musicality to the system. I think Mr. Record is in for a very pleasant shock tonight.
Those familiar with the breezy, witty, and often highly humorous writing style Wolf has manifested in a great many other threads here over the years should realize that the wording of his post about his experience with the SR fuses was entirely characteristic. Therefore I for one see nothing in that wording that would suggest any applicability of the cynical parsing it received above.
Jafreeman, yours is a very compelling post. You have written what some others are possibly suspicious of but are willing to give people with counter opinions and experiences the benefit of the doubt.
I am willing to take his comments at face value. All I can say is his outcome is vastly different from mine and leave it at that. Look at the number of respected members of this forum who are very experience and credible listeners Who have reported excellent results with these particular fuses. Form your own conclusions. charles,
"Wolf, I call BS on your story of having tried the SR Blacks--it sounds like a phony confession out of a B-rated film noir. Your tone is evasive, shifty. "I have a friend" is a contrived intro. He owns a well-regarded store, then you label it as a "salon". He had a pile of these fuses hanging around from some show or something. Sure, Wolf, sure. He gave you a half dozen "or so"... "of the things"."
I will probably install the black outlet at the end of this month. Did you install an aftermarket cover when you installed your black outlet? Do you have any reason to believe that any of the available covers improve performance? Or is it mostly for appearance?
The fuse in my preamp is evolving and continues to improve. By Sunday night it should be fully broken in. Things are going so well that I might replace only 2 of the 4 red fuses in the power amp. I will not replace the 2 rail fuses at this time. I will install the black AC outlet before moving on to the power amp.
When I do get to the power amp top priority will be grounding the circuit board to the grounding block with a home-made high definition cable. I have reason to believe this will be more effective than grounding the amp"s chassis to the grounding block. I also need to check the bias on the amp, install the 2 AC fuses, and inspect the AC inlets sockets.
I also ordered a Schuko Furutech NCF wall outlet still to be delivered. Big hopes on it and no SR Schuko wall outlet in Europe I think. It will replace a Oyaide SWO
Zacho, I haven't compared both as I only have a Beeswax in the pre. I choose AM vs SR Black and here's what the cable company wrote to me after I choosed :
"In regards to the Premier Bees Wax Super Fuse, it has richer harmonics when compared to the very popular Synergistic Research Black fuses".
unfortunately I never heard about someone who compared both side by side except maybe the Cable Co ?
"
Although having dealt with countless engineers during the course of my career, as well as being one of them, my perception has been that there are many cases in which perfectionism tends to be carried to extremes. And many engineers tend to be a bit too dogmatic and inflexible in how they approach their work. All of which can result in the paralysis by analysis that OP referred to."
Exactly, Al.
Considering what Al said there, and considering the personalities of sales people who are happy closing a sale 50% of the time they make a sales call, or even less, its easy to see why so many sales people have such a difficult time selling to the engineer type. They're actually conflicting personality types.
Once a salesperson takes the care and the time to address the needs of the other person, understands the prospects motivation, and then points the prospect in the right direction, success usually follows.
Studying personality types really does gives a salesperson an edge up on the competition and imparts a lot of power to the salesperson during the sales process.
These are some of the differences in my business between a true professional and an also-ran. The most important attribute of all though is honesty to a fault.
There is a fine line between a professional salesperson and a con-man.
A true professional in the sales field will never suggest or do anything that is a disadvantage to, or for, his/her customer. A con-man may make millions by being among the greatest salespeople in the world, but they usually end up in prison. Think Bernie Madoff.
Its true that "analysis paralysis" is a common plague historically, but in software engineering for example, modern Agile or iterative development paradigms address it.
Older traditional development paradigms often referred to as "waterfall" development have fallen out of favor these days in most any progressive development organization.
Waterfall development depended on thorough analysis of the problem up front to determine a plan for development. That approach fails as problems become too complex to assess completely and accurately up front, leading to either analysis paralysis ie doing nothing until the analysis is complete or heading down a poorly understood path doomed to fail.
Iterative development is more agile because you attempt to build something based on the key known requirements regularly, like once every few weeks and then stop and reassess so what was learned can be applied effectively to the next iterative phase of development.
So analysis paralysis can certainly still exist but is far less problematic as a whole these days than in years past.
Today's complex and fast moving world has no room for "analysis paralysis" in product development.
mapman 13,507 posts 07-14-2016 12:42pm "Read up about the Challenger space shuttle disaster for a textbook example. I worked in Huntsville Al. at the time down teh road from Marshal Space Flight Center where those engines were tested. My companies Computer Aided Design software at the time was used to design the shuttle. Human error not technology led to its fate. I was still a young pup but I witnessed how all the engineers I knew were totally shattered that day."
My friend from school in the Aero dept. at UVa wound up as executive director of the Challenger disaster Investigation, the Rogers Commission. He was the one who didn’t allow Richard Feynman’s report to be included in the main report, from what I can gather, because they clashed personally and because Feyman was rather eccentric. Too eccentric for Keel, apparently.
Mapman 7-14-2016 12:42pm The best engineers strive for accuracy and avoid making mistakes that will have consequences to someone down the road.
+1. A good engineer recognizes that it is almost always best to get things right the first time, for example during the design process, than to have to fix them later.
Although having dealt with countless engineers during the course of my career, as well as being one of them, my perception has been that there are many cases in which perfectionism tends to be carried to extremes. And many engineers tend to be a bit too dogmatic and inflexible in how they approach their work. All of which can result in the paralysis by analysis that OP referred to.
One thing I have never perceived, however, is any particular tendency among engineers to fear criticism. In fact perfectionist tendencies and paralysis by analysis, in a professional setting, can be expected to often result in big-time criticism, when schedules are missed and budgets are exceeded.
One thing that worked to my advantage in my career was being able to recognize that different circumstances call for differing degrees of perfectionism, and flexibility in how different situations are approached. With the choice of how to proceed often being made just by technically-based instinct.
In any event, my thanks to Wolfie for having taken the time to provide an additional data point on these fuses, in a manner that sounds like it was done with requisite thoroughness.
When in product development, I worked with many technical marketing folks and always got along well with them, especially the ones who also valued integrity and accuracy. The best companies always place top value on that.
Also I will add that the creme of the crop when it comes to engineers have extreme confidence in their knowledge and abilities and fear little in that regard. Also pretty much true with the best in most any profession I suspect.
As a general rule, each personality type has its main fear. Fear of criticism for the engineer type. Fear of being taken advantage of for the law enforcement type. Loss of social approval for the back-slapping salesman type. I forget the last one. But, these fears are with us all. Its interesting stuff and very important for folks who work with the public to know. ... especially people in sales.
I used to be intimidated by the engineer type in a sales situation because they would ask so many minutia questions. I thought they were questioning my integrity. With me, it was that loss of social approval thing.
Once I learned that engineers CANNOT make a decision right after the sales presentation, and that they MUST "think it over," my closing ratio with engineers went up exponentially.
In most cases, the engineer type is going to interview at least several salespeople to get all the facts he/she can. These salespeople, not understanding the psyche of the engineer type, would pull out their hammers and try to beat the poor guy into submission in an effort to close the sale.
Ha ... I'd just leave the paperwork overnight, let him/her dissect it to their heart's desire, then call them the next day to see if I could pick up the signed paperwork and start working for them.
I've been told many times by these folks that the reason they decided to work with me was that I was "so low pressure."
Not sure about that. The best engineers strive for accuracy and avoid making mistakes that will have consequences to someone down the road.
Almarg is a good example here. Also having a law background puts him in a class of his own.
Read up about the Challenger space shuttle disaster for a textbook example. I worked in Huntsville Al. at the time down teh road from Marshal Space Flight Center where those engines were tested. My companies Computer Aided Design software at the time was used to design the shuttle. Human error not technology led to its fate. I was still a young pup but I witnessed how all the engineers I knew were totally shattered that day.
I've worked as a 100% commissioned salesperson for most of the past 53 years. In my field, its important to understand personality types. There's four basic types with combinations mixing the four.
Engineers are a breed of their own. Its almost impossible to get them to make a decision on the spot. Many of them suffer from "analysis paralysis."
The best approach with an engineer is to leave him/her with all of the paperwork/contract and let them think it over, over night, then call them the next day for their decision. Many times they will say ... "Oh, everything looks great. Its all signed. Come on over and pick the paperwork up."
Salespeople who try to pressure an engineer into a decision before he/she is ready to make the decision are dead meat.
Each of the four personality types has its biggest fear. With the engineer, its the fear of criticism. That's why they measure 15 times and cut once. That's also why they take a doubting posture when it comes to things they can't measure.
Of course there are varying degrees and a mix of personality types, but normally one type will be dominant in each person. If a salesperson is to be successful, then its important that he/she understands the differences and learns to "sell" to each individual type.
The engineer, because he/she carefully analyses everything to death, usually ends up with a nice, comfortable retirement because they have planned for it. They are financially frugal and very intelligent people. Also, they drive their spouses crazy. :-)
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