I spoke with Warren Gehl at ARC this morning and the conversation eventually got around to the directional property of fuses and why they sound their best in one direction and defused (no pun intended) in the opposite direction.
Warren said that its a metallurgy situation and not an electrical one. According to Warren, when metal is extruded (drawn) to make wire it affects the direction of the grain in the metal. When the fuse is orientated in the direction of the grain, the sound will be the best. When the fuse is in the opposite direction, it will sound as though the system is out of phase. That's certainly been the experience of most of us posting here. Its fairly dramatic in my system for sure.
I also asked him about the rotational position of the fuse, and he said that it has nothing to do with the wire. He said that each fuse has a position where the contact point of the end caps is best. Find that best position and the sound will be at its best.
OP
|
A couple of friends had their Sony and Oppo units modified by ModWright and the outcome was substantial improvement of the sound quality across the entire sonic spectrum. If the Sony HAPZ1 is similarly improved then I would say it's money well spent just as Bill (Brownsfan) states.
Charles |
Well, Brownsfan, that is very interesting. The HAPZ1 already performs at a decent level, I’ve found it equal to a Berkeley DAC/Sim Moon transport combo in my system, which kind of shocked me. If it can be made to improve upon that performance level to a good degree, then that is definitely something that I will consider. Appreciate your input and kind offer to provide further insights if I choose to go that away. May take you up on the offer in the near future…... |
Butler, The ModWright work was absolutely worth it. I bought the HAPZ1 and used it long enough to get it burned in well before I sent it off. I made some pretty detailed notes on some music that was well known to me, so I did have a good point of reference for the stock vs. Modded versions. The current listing is $2995 for the mod. Dan occasionally runs specials where he discounts modifications at times when business is slow. Discounts are deep enough to be worth waiting for. If you decide to do this, shoot me an email and I can give you my thoughts on upgrade options, tubes, power cords etc. |
davidpritchard, I've just scored a used FEQ today for a very good price of USD 580. As you have one of this in your system, could you kindly describe what it does and the improvements you get from this unit? I would most likely be collecting it next week. |
Good point Brownsfan, I figured when you mentioned Dan that your's was modified, so I'll experiment with 2 fuses to see what is what, thanks for the clarification. Since you mentioned it, was the MW mod worth it, and do you happen to know the cost for updating an existing unit?
|
Butler, One last thought. My HAPZ1 is a ModWright version, with a second isolated tube rectifier that provides DC to the analogue section. This being the case, your results might very well be different than mine. It might be safest to start with 2 fuses and send one back if you don't hear a difference. Since we don't really know exactly what these fuses service, it is hard to say if a stock HAPZ1 will give the same results as my ModWright version. |
Thanks again Brownsfan, didn't realize you actually described all of this in your previous referenced post, I certainly appreciate you posting those results again.......
|
Butler, this is my post from 3-19-16 below. The fuse in the "HDD live" slot is the one that made a difference. I had 2 fuses of the right value in other equipment, so I tried one at a time and then both. Again, adding the black fuse to the mains live slot pretty much made no difference. So I just ordered one for that spot and put the 2 I already had back in the other equipment.
"Knghifi, looking down on the HAPZ1 with the front closest to me, the fuses were installed with the S to the left and the R to the right. Again, I found the directionality to be rather obvious. The fuse in the front is labeled HDD live. The one towards the back is labeled Mains Live. Look off to the left and towards the back for the label. I asked Dan Wright a number of questions, including "which fuse serves the DAC." He didn't answer that particular question.
It may be that the mains fuse is serving mostly uses such as the display, which would explain that fuse having little or no impact of the quality of sound. "
|
^^^ I have a CD player that takes two fuses. Each one made a significant improvement.
OP |
Hey thanks Brownsfan, that is very interesting and good info to have. Do you suggest purchasing just the 1 fuse and trying it in both locations to see which is which or would you be able to ID the location of the one I would need? I guess with the return policy it wouldn't matter much at any rate, if one wanted to experiment.
|
Butler,
I tried the Blacks in my Sony HAPZ1 ES. I found that replacing one of the fuses made a noticeable improvement in sound, whereas the other made no discernible difference. I wonder if one fuse serves non audio devices ( front panel, transport etc). I reported my observations earlier in this thread. You might want to repeat my experiment. Could save you $120. |
almarg, thank you for the very informative post, very helpful for someone like me who has limited knowledge of AC/DC, current, amps, ohms, voltages etc.
I remember being sceptical when first introduced to the Black fuse at the local SR dealer; Sound Decisions, when I went down to purchase some HFTs and MiGs. Nevertheless I asked Mr Google for help and he directed me to Audiogon and oregonpapa and enjoyed reading through this thread. After the many favourable reviews I decided to take the plunge and gave Sammy a call.
The results for me were immediate and I was blown away. I have more than 100 hours on the fuses now and my system keeps sounding better. I told my buddy about it and he scoffed at the idea that a couple of fuses can make any difference in sound quality. Guess there will always be unbelievers amongst us. |
Thanks for the input Les & Al, guess I'll need to look before I leap just to be sure.....will need to purchase a BIG magnifying glass cause my near vision sucks but what the heck, also have an EAR preamp that I will likely re-fuse too so might as well bite the bullet. Intrigued to see if these fuses actually provide all the positives listed here. |
Fazee 10-04-2016
One issue to consider is that Singapore’s electricity voltage is 230V whereas the voltage for the U.S.A. is 120V, therefore I have no idea if this would affect the fuse values in the Sony in anyway? In the case of an AC mains fuse the voltage difference will generally make a considerable difference in the current rating of the fuse that is necessary, because a given amount of power consumption by a component will correspond to almost twice as much current being drawn if it is configured for 120 volt operation than if it is configured for 230 volt operation.
However, the 3.15 amp rating of the fuses in Fazee’s 230 volt unit seems much higher than would normally be used in an AC mains application for a component such as the HAP-Z1ES, that is specified as consuming only 35 watts. That and the reference to there being two identical fuses leads me to suspect that those fuses are being used for much lower voltage DC applications in internal circuitry, such as the + and - 15 VDC voltages that are used in many designs. In which case the fuses that are required for the 120 VAC version of the HAP-Z1ES could very well be the same as for the 230 VAC version.
In any event, though, as Fazee suggested Butler should look inside his unit to be sure of what is necessary.
Regards,
-- Al |
Yes, topics other than the fuses have been freely and enjoyably discussed here.
Charles, |
^^^ Over 124,000 views and counting. :-)
Start a clubhouse? I thought we had a pub going on right here. *lol*
|
Les,
The voltage rating of the fuse is a non issue in the USA.
I'm happy that you are having such success with the Black fuses.
Asia, Europe and North America, this thread has reached far and wide. |
Hi butler, One issue to consider is that Singapore's electricity voltage is 230V whereas the voltage for the U.S.A. is 120V, therefore I have no idea if this would affect the fuse values in the Sony in anyway? Perhaps someone more qualified can hazard a guess? In any case, you can confirm after popping the fuses out and using a magnifying glass to read the values.
Regards, Les |
Hi oregonpapa, Not to worry about mis-spelling my name, I have been called worse ;) Thanks for pointing me to the power cord thread, I am already finished with that. Les |
I have really enjoyed the people and conversation on this thread, and decided to start one called "The Black Fuse Clubhouse" on the Misc. Audio Forum so we can post about a wider range of topics, not centered around a particular product. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-black-fuse-clubhousePlease check it out, and post away. |
Hi butler, Yes, it seems like there were only 2 fuses in the Sony HAPZ1-ES, unless my eyes are failing me. So you need to get 2 x Black Fuse Slow Blo 3.15A 20mm 250v I intend to get the fuses for my AVM amp once my Black Power Cords arrive and are run in. Have fun, you will start grinning from ear to ear like I did after you install those fuses. :) Alright, back to Page 29 where I stopped reading to register and post here this afternoon. Regards, Les
|
Hi Les,
Excellent that the SR fuses are working their magic for you. Actually, I've been meaning to track down the fuse info as employed in my Sony HAPZ1-ES, sounds like you can help in that regard. You mentioned replacing 2 in your Sony with the Black's, is that the total fuse count? And if you have it handy, can you specify what the fuse values are (or which SR fuses you purchased)?
Thanks very much!
|
Les ...
I just noticed that I addressed you as "Lee" and I should have said "Les." Sorry, I just woke up and still have sleepy eyes. Its early here. :-)
OP
|
Hello, Lee ... I hope all is well this morning in Singapore. Thanks for posting your results. Your experiences with the SR products mirrors that of so many others who have tried them. Each step you've taken is a new adventure. The HFT's transformed my room too. While the SR Black fuses improved each component like a component upgrade, the HFT's brought everything into focus. And that was with a lot of room treatments already in the room. Please report back with the results you get with the new power cords. You can expect the usual break-in time with the cords as well. In case you weren't aware of it, there is a thread on the SR power cords here on A'gon. Here's a link: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergistic-research-atmosphere-power-cordsAgain, congratulations on the great results. OP |
Hi oregonpapa,
Thank you for starting this very informative thread. Seems like this thread has gone global and you have one very happy user of the SR Black fuses out here in Singapore.
I am very new to hifi and audio and ill qualified to comment on a system's sound quality but I do know that these fuses have taken my modest system to a different level.
My system consists of AVM C9 integrated amplifier, Sony HDD HAP Z1-ES music server, Gauder Akustik Berlina RC3 bookshelf speakers and PliXiR BAC 3000 power conditioner.
The SR components I have are; HFT level 3, Core Active Speaker Cable, Universal Interconnect Cell, Galileo Basik RCA Interconnect, one set of MiGs, 3 Black fuses and a Black UEF Duplex.
I have a Black fuse in the power conditioner and 2 in the Sony HAP Z1-ES. I have about 90 hours on these fuses and the sound just keeps getting better and better. I do get startled on certain music I am listening to sometimes, forcing me to glance at my front door 30 feet to my left, thinking that someone has just knocked on it, amazing.I also notice that even though I play my music at a lower volume now, I can hear even more details than before with my volume way higher.
I have also installed the SR Black UEF Duplex a couple of weeks ago and have got about 100 hours on them and again the improvement in my system's SQ is clear. Noise floor very much lowered with tighter bass and even more details emanating from my system.
I have ordered 3 SR Black UEF Power Cords after my experience with the Black fuses and am eagerly awaiting delivery in a couple of weeks, I hope.
With the arrival of the PC, my cabling will be virtually an all SR affair. :)
Regards,
Les
|
Hi, David ...
If possible, would you stop in at the Von Gaylord room to take a listen. I'd like your assessment on the sound. Also, introduce yourself to Ray Leung the designer. He's a brilliant designer and a complete gentleman. If you find the time, please say hello to Ray for me.
Hope you're having a wonderful time at the show.
Frank |
Hello David,
I used the Takatsuki for 3 years in my SET amplifier and know quite well their excellence! Have a ball at the RMAF. OK it's time for Michigan Wolverine football 😊.
Charles, |
A special audio event was experienced last night. Renowned cello player Zuill Bailey and the Ying Quartet played live last night at a small wine bar to celebrate the release of their recording of the Schumann Quintet. With catered tasties, wine, and the intimate atmosphere, it was a perfect musical venue and event..
And then I had the fun to go home and play the same music I had just heard live on my headphone system. Now I experienced the same music as a private uninterrupted conversation where ideas were exchanged at the highest satisfying level.
The right audio grade fuses and A/C wall outlets are a big help in achieving this type of experience. So if you have not given them a try, discard any preconceived expectations and give them a try.
Charles 1 Dad - well I pulled the trigger and bought the Takkatsuki 300B tubes yesterday that were on Audiogon! I decided experiencing Aural Sushi was better than Oral Suchi as I don't have funds for both!
I hope all get to enjoy wonderful music today.
David Pritchard |
Spacial Audio speakers have certainly sounded good at past shows so thank you for the reminder to have a listen. I am going to also take time to listen to the new and expensive Focal headphones while at this years RMAF.
My systems are really dialed in and so no pressure to jump from room to room. I think it will be a fun weekend.
David Pritchard
|
Papa,
I got the low end fuse, the SR20, cost me $30. It has done no harm so far. Dave, I am gonna miss the RMAF this year as the coin of the realm is tight. I hope some of the guys on the forum hook up with you there. I also hope you get a chance to hear my coveted Spatial Audio speakers while you are there, they are quite amazing and reasonably priced. They are the most enjoyable speakers I have owned in my 45 years in the audio world. Cheers, Mark |
I am going to the Rocky Mountain Audiofest in Denver next weekend - Friday thru Sunday. I would certainly enjoy meeting the participants of this thread. If you go feel free to give me a call or text - 575-644-1462.
David Pritchard |
|
Wow. We did what couldn't otherwise be done.
Killed the thread.... |
Hi, whitestix ...
Welcome to Crazy Town. :-)
Glad to hear you're getting good results.
Just for clarification, did you install a
SR20 Quantum Fuse, or the
Synergistic Research BLACK Quantum Fuse? The reason I ask is that there is a huge difference in price.
They both have rave reviews on the Highend-electronics site.
OP
|
Fuse heads,
I bit the bullet last week and ordered a SR 20 Black fuse which was marketed at 50% off the regular price. I tried the SR Red fuse in my Don Sach 6SN7-based preamp earlier this year and found no discernible difference compared to the sound of my system using $10 Hifi Tuning fuse. I just fired up the system with the SR 20 fuse and can say definitively that my system sounds fantastic (with a Dennis Had Inspire Bottlehead SET amp and Spatial Audio M4 Hologram speakers, and a modified Oppo 103 CD player). I hasten to add that the system sounded fantastic last night when I turned it off and went to bed.
So, I will run the fuse in and then have my pal swap the two fuse variants to see if I can tell any difference. It makes no sense that the fuse would improve the sound, but it is worth a few shekels to have fun trying it out. And obviously a lot of you "fuse heads" are devotees of the SR tweaks.
I will let you know my results in a couple of weeks. Cheers, Whitestix |
Too expensive. I'm going wire the fuses out of circuit and stick a smoke detector nearby. |
jm ..
Its not politics if you don't take a side. At least not by my thinking .
I'd say, just relax and have fun. Sorry if you were offended. No offense intended.
OP |
Hi John,
It was just an analogy, must we be that sensitive? . No harm no foul. Take care. 😊😊
Charles, |
So, with a money back guarantee, as Donald Trump says to his Black audiences: "What do you have to lose?"
and....we're back on politics again.....sigh. Why do some folks struggle so much to open their mouths without sticking their whole foot in it? |
Astro58go ...
When I took delivery of my ARC REF-75se, I replaced the stock fuse with a HiFi Tuning fuse for a nice, but marginal improvement.
When I read the advertisement in TAS on the SR RED fuses, I decided to replace the HiFi Tuning fuse with the SR RED fuse. I figured ... Hey, if I don't like it, I can always send it back using SR's 30 day return policy.
Replacing the HiFI Tuning fuse with the SR RED was a major improvement, not unlike a real upgrade in electronics; maybe to a better pre-amp. This is what started this entire thread. I subsequently did the entire system with the SR Red fuses, much to my delight.
Within months of changing all of the fuses in the system, SR came out with the BLACK fuses. I decided to take a flyer and try one in the amp again. There was no contest at all. The Black fuses blew (no pun intended) all of the other fuses down the tubes (again, no pun intended).
The point is this ... if you don't at least try an SR Black fuse in your amp, based upon the many positive experiences other's have experienced, as attested to in this thread, you are most likely missing out.
What I thought was a grain free amp in the ARC REF-75se, I realized right off the bat after installing the SR Black fuse that I wasn't even scratching the surface. Not even close.
So, with a money back guarantee, as Donald Trump says to his Black audiences: "What do you have to lose?"
:-)
OP
|
Astro58go,
Do you still have a Hifi-Tuning fuse in your DNA 225 amp? Have you listened to your amp with a standard(non-audiophile) fuse? I am curious if you would hear a difference. |
The fact, (in my case), that since Steve has control over ALL aspects of his designs may be A deciding difference in this debate.
|
tommylion, Your post above reminded me of my listening notes after I received my SMc DNA 225/Ultra 15 upgraded amp from Steve a year ago. While I had Hi-Fi Tuning fuses installed, (on the list of most sonically important items I had to choose from on my upgrade (I did give a budget of $2500, I already had the Plitron as I upgraded from a previous Platinum), the fuses were down on the list of most important things according to Pat & Steve.
If you know of McCormack, they test/listen, re-test, re-listen to everything including different solders on specific circuit board soldered items. I trust their expertise on their products. I don't doubt others' experiences with the Synergistic fuses. There aren't on my "to do list".
Happy listening!
|
Frank,
Very well said and true. The better the system the more attention/focus is drawn directly to the music and musicianship as opposed to cerebral/analytical dissection of the sound. |
^^^
One way to determine when your audio system has "arrived," is when your friends stop saying "Hey, your SYSTEM sounds great," and instead they begin to say: "Hey, those GUYS sound great." |
Yes nyame, Tommy summed it up succinctly and beautifully. When you're able to say this you've assembled an audio system in the right direction.
Charles, |
Tommylion 9/20/16
"
There's a line where what you're listening to stops being a recording,
and becomes a musical event. That line is not always clearly marked or
defined, but you know when you've crossed it. For me, that's what this
hobby is all about; turning recordings into musical events"
This is what this tread is all about. This is what our hobby is about. What a beautiful .way to say it.
|
Tommylion ..
That Nutcracker I led you to on Amazon isn't the budget version, its the version Robert brought over. Honestly, its a CD that should be in every classical music lover's collection.
OP |
Tommylion ... I could not agree with you more. That's exactly it. This morning I had an early morning listening session. I love listening to the system with the purity of the power that comes into the house around 5 am or so. Two nights ago, my good friend "Mister Record" (Robert) dropped off a rendition of Tchaikovsky's "Nutcracker" with artur Rodzinski conducting the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. recorded in 1956. This is a CD transfer from a Westminster stereo analog tape
recorded in 1956. I already had a budget CD of the work that I thought was pretty good. In fact its very good,. BUT ... while listening to Robert's CD this morning, I was transported right into the recording venue. What a beautiful performance. This is the best Analog tape transfer of the work that I, or Robert, has ever heard. Yes, there's a small amount of tape hiss, but that's a good thing as the highs aren't rolled off. Then, I put on the Reference Recording of John Rutter's "Requiem" performed by the Turtle Creek Chorale. Wow! That chorus was spread out from wall to wall ... and so believable. And so utterly beautiful. I haven't played this CD in a couple of years, having put it on the back burner. It has never sounded as good as this. Its a reflection of the improvements made to the system over the past year, with a big jump due to the SR Black fuses. This is the budget version I already had. Its quite good. I found it on Amazon. Its a two CD set. This is a must have. You NEED this CD. :-) https://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Nutcracker-complete-Symphony-No/dp/B00005OLDM/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&...Here's the Requiem CD. If you like choral music, you'll need to jump on this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Rutter-Requiem-Five-Anthems-Referecne-Recordings-RR-57CD-Still-Sealed-/...
So many recordings in the collection ... so little time to listen.
OP |
