Mapman, congrats on reaching the magic 14,000.
Could not have done it without you buddy.
Synergistic Red Fuse ...
I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
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^^^ NIce ... thank you. Pretty much what we've all been experiencing. Very cost effective tweaks. I'm in the process of getting system covered with Herbie's tube dampeneres at the moment ... another VERY worthwhile tweak. After the tubes are done, I want to try a set of SR's PHT's on my phono cartridge. I've read some rave reviews on these little babies. |
Enjoy the Music has just done a review of the Black fuse and UEF Black outlet: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1116/Synergistic_Research_Black_Quantum_Fuses_UEF_Bl... |
OMG! Talk about luck ... we found two Decca 10" Django Reinhardt LPs in a used record store this week for ten-bucks each. They both feature Reinhardt on guitar of course, and Stephane Grappelly on violin. The vinyl and covers are in mint condition. They are french pressings recorded in 1938, the year of my birth. The sound, considering the era, is excellent ... and talk about some swingin' jazz ...! Some real toe tapping music. Wow. I'm going to burn both of them onto a CD and archive the records. They are way too nice to have an accident with. :-) And by the way, another unabashed compliment for the way the Audio Technica ART-9 plays mono records. I thought the OC-9III was great on mono, but the ART-9 really raises the stakes. If you're thinking about buying a high dollar mono cartridge, I'd consider the ART-9 instead and keep a lot of bucks in your pocket. Frank |
For anyone interested in exploring the benefits of graphene further, I highly recommend looking into the Graphene Extreme line of signal and power cables from Cerious Technologies. There is a thread devoted to them on the cables forum. I purchased a digital cable and PC for my CD Transport. As a result, I am enjoying profound improvements, particularly in the areas of realism, palpability, clarity, detail, and true-to-life tonality of instruments. I will definitely be buying more cables as funds permit. The prices are VERY reasonable, and Bob Grost, the owner of Cerious, has been a pleasure to deal with. |
"Dave: I’ve also owned the Ayre K-1xe pre with internal phono for a few years. Enjoyed it a lot. Audition the KX-5 Twenty if you can because it’s stellar." Hi Paul, I dare not. My wife and I are raising a Grandson (unexpectedly) and I am grateful to be blessed with the equipment that I already own, yet even more so to be able to make a positive impact on the life of this fine young man. Best to you Paul, Dave |
mapman "What is a logical fallacy about appealing to Authority? If the authority is in fact experts, as it would seem in this case, then the deduction in fact has a greater chance of being true." It might be true but it also might not be true. That’s the point. Pointing to one’s credentials doesn’t automatically win arguments. If two experts disagree how do you decide who is right? Do you really think all experts in a given field, say electronics design, agree with each other on every issue? That’s not logical, Captain. Not to mention it’s almost certainly true that many electronics designers are actually even not aware of the directionality of wire controversy or aftermarket fuses or arrows on (unshielded) interconnects. mapman "Gk you either have a lot of cohunes or are just oblivious." Is this going to be like a multiple choice? mapman "You are the king of logical fallacies." Really? How so, Stringbean? Not saying I don’t like being called king. But I am king of logical fallacies and king of logical truths. mapman "Its a logical fallacy for you to accuse that of some of the most credible folks around. Clearly the only authority in your world is you. And you appeal to yourself everyday." Credibility is subjective, grasshopper. If you accept what some folks say without question I say, good for you! |
Dave: I've also owned the Ayre K-1xe pre with internal phono for a few years. Enjoyed it a lot. Audition the KX-5 Twenty if you can because it's stellar. Allan: I have four Black fuses on order. One for my BHK Preamp (which replaced my Pass XP-20), one for my PS Audio Directstream DAC, and 2 for my BHK 250 amp. I won't replace the 4 rail fuses on the amp because it's too expensive, and I don't think that other owners have gone this route. I may get a 5th fuse for my Pass XP-15 phono if things work out. Paul |
Al wrote, "IMO. (And also, as you’ll see in the comments quoted in the post I referred to, in the opinions of four different experienced designers of well regarded audio electronics). Opinions of other audiophiles, most of whom are not electronics designers, will certainly differ in many cases." Thanks for a classic example of the warhorse logical fallacy, the Appeal to Authority. |
For fuses on AC power line, I am assuming that AC "signal" flows into the equipment thru Live/Line/Hot terminal and out thru the Neutral terminal....Hi Alex, While energy is of course transferred in the direction from the outlet to the component, the AC hot and AC neutral conductors are involved in that process equally. And the AC current alternates direction in both of those conductors (and also in the fuse), every 8.333 milliseconds for 60 Hz AC, and every 10 milliseconds for 50 Hz AC. Beyond that, all I can say in response to your question is to suggest that you read my post in this thread dated 10-28-2016, which appears near the middle of the previous page. And note that if the comment by Atmasphere that I quoted in the thread is correct (and he has indicated that he has verified his contention experimentally) it would follow that the existence of sonic differences resulting from changing the direction of a fuse does not establish that fuses are inherently directional. IMO. (And also, as you’ll see in the comments quoted in the post I referred to, in the opinions of four different experienced designers of well regarded audio electronics). Opinions of other audiophiles, most of whom are not electronics designers, will certainly differ in many cases. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
Thank you for your inputs about the value and margin in black fuses. I am now experimenting with the direction of these fuses. I have been told that SR fuses should be oriented such that the writing on the fuse is in the direction of signal flow (ie looking at the SR label on the fuse, arrow going from S side to R side of the fuse). For fuses on AC power line, I am assuming that AC "signal" flows into the equipment thru Live/Line/Hot terminal and out thru the Neutral terminal. Thus, for fuses on the Live terminal of the input IEC power connector, the S side of the SR marking on the fuse should be towards the Line terminal of the IEC connector. For fuses on the Neutral terminal, the R side of the SR marking is towards the Neutral terminal of the IEC Neutral connector. Please let me know your comments and if this theory is a proper way to orient fuses. Alex |
"It's possible that SR fuse is affected by the turn-on sequence. My Pass XP-15 phono stage has no on/off switch. It's powered on once the AC cable is connected. I blew two Red fuses before I successfully used a Red with higher amperage rating." Exactly the same as my Ayre K-1xe phonolinepreamp/power supply where I lost two 1A Black fuses before going to a 2A. Best to you mtseymour, Dave |
It's possible that SR fuse is affected by the turn-on sequence. My Pass XP-15 phono stage has no on/off switch. It's powered on once the AC cable is connected. I blew two Red fuses before I successfully used a Red with higher amperage rating. By comparison, my PS Audio BHK amp is less likely to blow a fuse because it uses a lengthy turn-on sequence. I'll know for sure when my Black fuses arrive. I also agree that some fuses are directional. I tried an Hi Fi gold fuse in my BHK Preamp. In a single blind test, my wife (who's a musician with better hearing) agreed that one direction was pretty good, while the other was quite harsh (almost unlistenable). This is a surprising because I never thought that it would be so obvious. We'll try the same test with the Black after the burn-in. |
And now, try the Black!!! Great in every application except for a PS audio regenerator, especially the older P300, P600 ones. They tend to like the SR Red. See my thread with Jtubes2 on Synergistics Black fuses and Black outlets. And both of us have had Black fuses for at least 4 months, and no blown fuses, so can't speak to others' experience of the fuse blowing. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/is-the-maestro-ac-outlet-basically-a-cryo-d-cooper-br20-found... |
Thanks, Dave. Yes, as you found and as several others have reported earlier in the thread in appears that the SR Blacks blow a bit more readily than at least most stock and boutique fuses having the same ratings. And I agree that if there would be any sonic differences at all between SR Black fuses having somewhat different current ratings they would most likely be in favor of the fuse having the higher current rating (which presumably would have slightly less resistance and slightly less fluctuation in resistance as a function of variations in the current being drawn through it, although both parameters could very well be too small to be significant with either fuse). Also, I would expect that the current rating of the stock fuse in most components is determined by the designer somewhat imprecisely, by simply multiplying the nominal current draw of the component by a somewhat arbitrarily chosen factor (while also taking into account surges that occur at turn-on), as in general there is probably no need for a great deal of precision in that determination. That being one of the reasons why I would expect that most fault conditions that might arise in a component and require the fuse to blow would result in a much higher current draw than the rating of the stock fuse, and a fuse with a somewhat higher rating than stock but the same fast blow/slow blow characteristic would therefore seem very likely to provide adequate protection. So in Alexa6404’s case the risk of unnecessarily blowing an expensive 10 amp fuse would seem to outweigh the risk that secondary damage might result from a fault which causes a current draw of just a few amps more than that but does not cause a higher rated fuse to blow. The manufacturer might see it differently, of course, because their interest is presumably in minimizing warranty claims and/or repair costs, but that’s how I see it. Although I suppose that there could be some manufacturers who might use the substitution of a fuse having a higher than stock current rating, if they became aware of it, as an excuse to invalidate warranty coverage of a repair that might become necessary for unrelated reasons. As to deciding between the 12 amp and 15 amp ratings, my guess is no better than anyone else’s, but FWIW I suppose I’d go with 12. Best regards, -- Al |
Hi alexa6404, My experience is that the SR Black fuses are delicate. I went with a 2 amp vs a 1 amp on my Ayre preamp’s power supply after the 1 amp blew. I have used boutique fuses for many years and this is the first one that I ever had one blow. Due to the length of time it takes for a new SR black fuse to settle in, I can’t say for sure that the higher rated fuse sounds better, but I am confident that it does not sound worse. Can’t speak to the advisability of using a fuse with a higher rating than spec’d by the mfr. Perhaps almarg will weigh in on this? Best to you alexa6404, Dave |
I am looking to replace stock fuses with SR Blacks in my system. I was thinking of ordering fuses with higher current rating than installed stock fuses for two reasons: first, I understand that they could blow at a different threshold than stock fuses and are expensive to replace, and second that I have heard that higher current rated fuses sound better, which would make sense due to their higher current carrying capacity. I wanted to ask people on this thread your thoughts and experience with this. Typically, how much higher rating do you replace the stock fuses with? eg, my Amp (ML27.5) uses 10A fuse, would you replace that with a 12A or 15A? Any thoughts on this subject will be greatly appreciated. |
Well, I’d surely hope and expect a 15K line stage to provide (far) greater sonic/system impact than a 120.00 dollar premium fuse. One is an expensive and major component, the other an effective tweak that’s not even 1 % the cost of the ARC preamplifier. Some sense of proportion is advisable. 😊 The Indians just tied the Cubs in the 8th inning. This has the making of a classic 7th game. |
OP, curious if you have ever brought home a Ref 6 to try yet? I have the SR Black fuses in my gear, and they are fine. Not really "game changers" in my opinion, but to each his own. But the Ref 6 is really a game changer. I did have a ref 3 previously, and then a 5 and 5se, and now a 6, and can tell you that these are all more significant upgrades than the fuse. Not meaning to flame here, just keeping it real... Give it a try! |
charles1dad, Thank you for your kind words. I replaced my power conditioner today with the Kemp Electroniks power strip, and it was another eye opening upgrade, or should I say ear tingling. https://www.divineaudio.co.uk/kemp-elektroniks-power-strip-6-way I was skeptical when first introduced to this product and it doesn't weigh much at all compared to my 20kg PliXiR BAC 3000. However when I brought it home for a trial test, I was stunned that the noise floor was even lower than my much bigger BAC 3000. It made details clearer and images more precise which improved the overall musicality of the sound. Don't let the modest price deceive you, it will surprise many with much more expensive power conditioners. New power cords and power strip this week, hope my wife doesn't get suspicious. :) |
So my long awaited 3 SR Black UEF Power Cords arrived today after a long but rewarding wait :) Decided to use one of them with my PliXir power conditioner first and the improvement in the sound quality was immediate and not subtle at all. The second PC went to my Sony HDD HAP Z1-ES music server while the Third PC was connected to my AVM C9 Integrated amp. All I can say is wow!! For lack of an audiophile vocabulary, there were extra details I was picking up from very familiar tracks and the bass was deeper and sounded so much tighter. Have never heard the intro to this particular track sound so aggressive before. Love what I am hearing so far and have decided to leave all the cords as it is in the system and enjoy the music in the break in process. Apologies for not being able to articulate what I am hearing into words but one thing I know is that I will be looking to purchase the SR ground block next, after the PC's break in. |
Hi Bill, Congratulations on your Lyngdorf, I'm glad that it meets all of your audio system needs. I've seen reviews/articles on it but haven't heard one. I'm a thoroughly happy SET lifer I've come to realize. It gratifying to find music listening contentment by which ever means gets us there 😊😊. Charles |
Charles, forgot to tell you this fuse is for my highly modified Cary Rocket 88r. I use it when I want some tubes in my system. The Rocket 88 in triode mode with NOS Mullard tubes and my mods sounds fantastic with the Crescendos. My my main amp for the last year is an all in one Lyngdorf 2170 int amp with dac and room correction. Very special unit that makes your speakers sound as the designer intended by removing the room! Cannot upgrade the fuse in this unit as it uses a PCB mounted mini fuse. Once in a while I throw in the Cary for fun and a different sound. I need a tube amp I can modify and play with over time.:) Check out the Lyngdorf as it gets little attention, but based on my experience is a top contender. I like it better than my Dude, various amps, and Luxman DA06 separates. No kidding. That also surprised me. This amp is the direction of audio in the future. I can’t mod this one:( . Way beyond my skills. |
Tommy, This or even a Powercell 4 would be the better solution all the way around (excepting price) for getting much, much more of the SR sound you say you like throughout your system: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/ac-conditioners-synergistic-research-powercell-6-se-ac-conditioner... Whichever cord you prefer least could be sold to recover some of the difference... Best to you, Dave |
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Hello Al, As with Dave I always appreciate your insightful and well reasoned contributions. Funny thing is that my Coincident Line Stage and each mono block SET use a 3 amp slo blo fuse. My Line Stage is one of the very early models of the first year (2009). The current ones use a 1 amp slo blo fuse. I'd describe the mono blocks as having "noticeable" improvement but in the subtle range . The DAC and Line Stage reveal considerable improvement that's immediately recognizable. Al, although you aren't a user of the upgrade fuse products as many on this thread obviously are I greatly appreciate your intelligence and very mature decorum. You effectively demonstrate that forum contributors can disagree and express opposing opinion/perspective without gratuitous insults and childish put down summation. No doubt that others recognize your consistent mature manner. Charles |
Charles1dad 10-28-2016I suspect a relevant factor is that both you and the reviewer use amps that are biased in class A, since both amps are SETs, and therefore the amount of current drawn through their mains fuses remains essentially constant and independent of the dynamics of the music. It might be a different story with amps that are biased in class AB most or all of the time, and especially in the case of class D amps, where the AC current draw fluctuates dramatically with the dynamics of the music. Which would result in rapid fluctuations in the resistance and perhaps other parameters of the mains fuse. Also, the generally much higher current ratings of fuses that are used in power amps and integrated amps, relative to those used in upstream components, and perhaps differences in designer preferences with respect to how much margin is provided between fuse ratings and actual current draws, could conceivably be factors that are involved. I note that both the reviewer's amp and yours are made by Coincident. As you said, "no doubt that this is very likely brand and/or component dependent." Best regards, -- Al |
"Once you have determined that you’re very happy with your components and speakers for the long term, these audio accessories/tweaks help extract their full sonic potential." Exactly Charles. Understanding this in its entirety is fundamental to good purchasing decisions, regardless of where one is along the journey. Best to you Charles, Dave |
Hello Dave, Thanks for sharing your insight and observations based on various products in your system. What has struck me is that these various system tweaks/accessories have a very prominent accumulative positive effect. In my personal case, premium fuses and AC wall outlets, component stands for vibration management (Star Sound), upgrading capacitors (Duelund and Jupiter) and component grounding (via the Tripoint Troy) all= superior musical sound quality . I’m sure there’s is some good fortune/luck factor involved but the end result has been immense satisfaction and frequent (and long) listening sessions. Tube selection/rolling has been fun and certainly rewarding. Once you have determined that you’re very happy with your components and speakers for the long term, these audio accessories/tweaks help extract their full sonic potential. Charles |
Kind of funny to hear folks arguing against fuse directionality in view of the audibility of fuse direction. But not only fuse direction but also interconnect direction. And I'm referring to unshielded interconnects, you know, to eliminate the same tired argument that the directionality of cables is ONLY due to the shielding. Best wishes geoff kait |
