Switched From Tubes To SS???Glad You Did???

Viridian, I understand everything and appreciate it. I do use a pair of subs. Everything is a compromise somehow. I believe it was Bill Lowe of Audioquest who said it first ; "To do less harm". It is wonderful to have such a vast amount of equipment available to us. Thanks for the correspondence ! It has been my pleasure. Mr D.

When I said what I did about tubes I meant both tube preamp and amp. And if some speakers don't sound particularly good with the best tube electronics then either something is wrong with the bloody speakers or they were specifically designed for SS, for whatever reason. That would distort the perception of the big picture but not change the picture itself. In time this picture may become different but not yet. The same with the source - it's still the tape that rules.

There are other variables to consider. Some speakers just tend to work better with ss amps. There are ss pre that offer room correction, I'm not aware of any tube pres that offer that. Some ss amps have impedance's that rule out many tube pres. Some amps are very sensitive, which when combined with the high out put of many tube pres will reduce the effective range of volume control. There are other reasons as well. The point is that there are too many things to consider, therefore one can't make such absolute judgements.

Unsound, would you care to elaborate and give us some examples? Personally, I am not biased one way or another, be it tubes, transistors or something else. But I believe that most people will agree with my statement.

No, even if " money, space, heat, hassle etc. are no object tubes are still..." not necessarily the best way to go with either preamp or amp.

So if money, space, heat, hassle etc. are no object tubes are still the best way to go with both preamp and amp, right?

Viridian, I have owned Cornwalls and Fortes (as well as Heresys)and imo they do not compare to Lascalas, no offense meant. All lacked that "magic". Pretty dramatic to make a total system change. How often do you do this ? I recommend you get a pair of used Lascalas and keep your tubes, if you like Klipsch. The larger mid horn and woofer horn of the Lascalas make them a much more "coherent" speaker than the others. With the ownership of Cornwalls and Fortes, I am assuming the room will give you enough space for them. Jesusa0, I sent you an email......

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I really don't care one way or the other. I run solid state monoblocs because I cannot afford the same amount of power in tube amps. I run a tube preamp because I like the way the preamp sounds. If I found a ss preamp in the same price range that sounded better, I'd buy it. My tube preamp has been pretty maintenance free and no real hassles.
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I have a tube pre, the Herron VTSP 3A, which is hassle free. You can leave it on 24/7. I pair it will a solid state amp. I agree with others in that a tube pre and solid state amp is the way to go. I leave my system on 24/7 and don't worry about warm up, or if the tubes are good ect...

Thanks Viridian.My problem is that as a retired soldier my pension is stretched to the max & I have to buy for the long term,which is why I drive everyone crazy with question after question regarding which path to take.Plus it doesn't help that my grail speakers are Dynaudio's which I will admit sounded FANTASTIC driven by the 40 Tube Watts from the Yaqin I just flipped(due to it's developing some problems after I dropped it on it's head).I guess when all is said & done I'm gonna stick with the glass,for me it just makes since in the long run...Take care...

Mrdecibel:

I´m curious to know more about your rig.

Daniel

I would like to add that most important aspect, musicality. Prat, dynamics, detail, coherence, imaging and spatial presentation, are all here. A truth, if you will, to the recordings, and, to the listening experience. I am a very happy listener.....

First I want to say I understand tube ownership and benefits, and appreciate all of those who own tubes. Given that, I own Klipsch Lascalas (in my main listening system) and am very happy with solid state behind them. Completely black background. Quiet, quiet, quiet. Equipment on 24/7 so available to listen to at a blink of an eye (or ear). Complete assurance of reliability and consistency, at least in my experience. No microphonics to deal with, no tube changing to deal with. Of course I am not speaking of a department store rack system. But after many years of trials and tribulations, I will stay the ss game.

I think a lot of it depends on your speakers and what type of amp sounds best with them. Mine like lots of power. A year or so ago, I had a tubed CD player, tubed preamp and hybrid (tube input stage) amps. Very dense, rich sound, wonderful midrange, slightly rolled off but grainless top end and full, fat bass. I have gone to (almost) all SS gear, but had to get pretty good high power Class A amps and a pretty good preamp to make it sound good to me. I am currently doing an extended comparison between the tubed CD player and a SS player that also plays hi-rez dvd's. So far both players sound very good, but have slightly different strengths - a tough choice. In answer to your question, yes I like solid state better for my lifestyle. I am considering class A/B amps solely so I can leave them on for longer periods of time when I am not playing music. Since the tubed CD player only has two tubes, I do not worry about it so much, plus it has a switch that only turns off the tubes but not the electronics. As long as you are not trying to find solid state gear that "sounds like tubed gear," but rather can be happy with SS gear that simply makes good sounding music, then you may be fine, because such gear exists.

To Viridian:Why are you selling off the tube gear & what simple SS gear are you going to?Thanks to all for your replies...

From expierence the closer the tubes are to the source the better. I also switched tubes in the phono stage and in the cd player. Phono stock tubes are 6922 switched to ECC-88 The cd player stock 12AX7 switched to ECC-83. Both with positive results especially the phono stage. I bought the tubes from TC Tubes. They also matched them which I think also helps the performance.

Its a mix period, both can fail to find the optimal natural sound. I think the current 20 year period most have felt that Tube pre + SS Amp is the best overall compromise. I can agree to a point. But I have heard some SS Preamp's sound a lot more Tube than even Tubes! By the way some Tube preamps just have way to high output impedance and put on a low input impedance SS amp like a 10k ohm will many times sound very thin or not hit that bottom octave very well just as a tip.

Engineering of the circuit design, and matching it to the synergy, and characteristic's of the system are key. Its a whole, no one component will stand on its own including cables, or speakers so you need to narrow down the field quite a bit to get that end result, which is why Audiogon stays in business obviously as people trade out weekly on gear trying to get that "Magic" number or result!

It can get pricey, once you spend it all and come back to simplicity again many times sounds even better, but you will all spend more than you like, and maybe come full circle back to a realistic system and fundamentally well designed system.

It has less to do with power classes, A- A-B, Tube, SS whatever, even digital vs. Analog. And some recordings will just not perform in some amplification schemes the way you would like it too.

My suggestion don't have bias toward any direct topology the music needs to play correctly that's the only measurement that will ultimately satisfy whether you end up SS or Tube.

Have had various SS and tube pre's over the years, all to some degree satisfying. Once I bought my Wyetech Opal, a tubed pre, I have never even considered another pre, let alone a SS pre. I suspect much of the frustration with tube components is with the amps much more than the pre's. I think the ideal combo is a SS amp and tube pre.

One simple man's opinion after some 40 years of this mania.

Neal

With you Marakenetz... don't know that I have ever heard a SS guitar amp that cuts it!

Had tubed amplification with VTL MB100, Than had a biamp setup, than got rid of VTL MB100. The only tubes I have is in my guitar amp.

"So, all in all I like tube sound, I do not like the hassle of tubes. But I like clarity and purity more than tube sound. "

HEy, I'm with Elizabeth 100% on this!

Gotta admit, I want to be a tube person. It seems like it should be more soulful, genuine, you know . . . stuff that should be important. I’ve owned two tubed preamps, a tubed CD player, and a tubed DAC. All pretty highly regarded (well, not all...). I keep trying, keep coming back, keep hoping.

But, I gotta be honest with myself, I’m just not a tube person. Maybe my migrations haven’t been fair to the glass-driven end of things as I’ve usually moved to more expensive SS gear (ie, AH!Tjoeb CDP to Meridian 508.24 – no comparison; VTL 2.5 to Rogue 99 Magnum to Plinius and then to Roland – no comparison; MHDT Havana to Ayre QB-9 – holy all-knowing crap, no comparison) but in each progression from tubed to SS gear, in my system at any rate, the SS gear has just been much better. So there’s that. I like chocolate and bourbon, also. Everyone should, ask me, but they don’t. It’s a taste thing.

But finally, what really was the death-knell of tubes for me is that I always found myself second-guessing them. There’s entirely too much anxiety and stress in my professional and daily life already, and the last thing I want during the sadly rare moments I get to unwind in front to the music bits is some damnable voice in the back dark corner of my mind musing, gosh, does that tube sound a bit off? Or maybe the left channel is getting a little tired? Having lived through tubes going south slowly and quietly, not so slowly or quietly, and having had tubed gear blow fuses and dim the lights in my house, I’m just over the petulant little bitches. Too fidgety.

Again, however, normally I’d love the “project” of fussing over tubes, nurturing and experimenting and all that rigmarole. But I am so much happier with rock-solid, reliable, no-fuss SS gear. Every time I make another foray into tubed gear, I’m reminded of that old saying: best part of banging your head against the wall, feels great when you stop. What can I say, just not a tube person, me. I want to be, but I’m not.

I have SS for TV rig and tubes for my listening pleasure....SS is just too unnatural sounding to my ears.

I sold my uber expensive all tube system, and bought a beat up pair of Epos M22's and an old Exposure XV integrated. There are tubes in the Jolida CD player...
I love this little system. I was beginning to think I couldn't listen to SS at all. All the expensive stuff at the shows had me fatigued within ten minutes; but this ancient of days gem has me blown away on a daily basis.
...And I have money. I'd forgotten how fun that was.

I tried a tube DAC in my rig and switched to a similar SS unit after switching to a tube pre-amp. There were too many tubes affecting the sound at that point.

The sound now is spot on.

That tube DAC is in my second system now which is all SS otherwise and gels well there.

I tried an Audio Research LS-25. The noise and lack of control in in the bottom 2 octaves was to much for me. Got a used McCormack MLD. Kris at SMC did his Platinum+ upgrade on it. I know this hard to except but even the midrange is better than the Audio Research LS-25. I am very happy with it.. My phono stage is an Audio Research PH-3SE which is a hybrid. So I still have tubes in the system. The PH-3SE is very quiet and very good in the bass. It has the reference mod in it from Steve Huntley at Great Northern Sound.

I tried solid state again several years ago, but missed the tubes and stayed with them. Ultimately, it's personal taste. There are diehards (and forum threads!) with opposing opinions.