Sugden/Allnic or Luxman L-509X?

I don't know where you're located but my local dealer in Pennsylvania carries both Sugden and Luxman and has an outstanding record store attached to his store.  He knows vinyl.  I've never heard the Sugden stuff. I believe he has the Luxman 509 and the 590 in house. Could be worth a trip if your within a few hours...great vinvl and great audio all in one trip.

I appreciate the info, but unfortunately I live in Austin, Texas. I’ve got a local dealer that carries the full Luxman line, and I’m trying to carve out time for a serious listen.

Check out Sugden Masterclass. It's a big step up sonically from their less expensive gear.

The Allnic would unbalance your system.  In order to make it fully work you would have to upgrade your turntable/tonearm, cartridge, interconnects and amplifier.  If you were only going to replace one item, then the Luxman is an excellent choice.  However, I would suggest you take a slightly different path and replace the integrated amp, phono stage and DAC with a full featured integrated amp.  I would suggest models by Levinson and Denon (anniversary models).  You'll give up the class A amp and the tubes, but you'll eliminate most of your cables and power cords (a very good thing) and get better digital.  The analog would probably be a slight upgrade (similar to what the Luxman would provide).  Dollar wise I'm talking in the $5 to 10k range.  Good luck and keep us informed.

BTW, your system is not mid-fi.  A mid-fi system doesn't have NOS Mullards.

For a modest investment I suggest replacing the phono cables and IC's with anything from Kimber, Audioquest, Cardas, or Analysis Plus. Have a professional align your cartridge and make sure it is level, VTF is correct, and that it is properly isolated. 
I am a Luxman fan and if you like things smooth but powerful and nuanced, the Luxman is killer. Line Magnetic is going to give you a more aggressive leading-transcients-forward sound. The Luxman gear is timeless and built to last forever. The build quality is at a different and higher level than LM. Luxman USA's customer service in unbelievable. 

Traded my Luxman 590axii for a Sugden Masterclass IA4 about a year ago. VERY pleased with it. Mostly stream with Bel Canto DAC and Streamer. Harbeth C7s. Mid range for sure but I love it. Just added a REL sub for a little more oomph....not sure about that yet.

Wahoostewjr- curious is the Sugden a little more neutral than the Luxman? I’ve owned various Luxman amps for 20 years and one day I just stepped away from the golden tone and never looked back. I also have a A21 that was a soundstage champ but I found it a little too edgy with some material on my speakers at the time. Curious about your take on the two brands.

I would definitely go the upgrade amp route first, whether that's Luxman, Line Magnetic, or the other brands you mentioned. While the Allnic is no doubt a world-class phono stage (I want one too) I feel that it may cause an imbalance if the rest of your gear is not at that level. Once you have the most important key pieces in place (amp and speakers) then you can go nuts on source gear, not the other way around. My 2 cents, good luck!

I’ve been running the 509x for about a year now. The predecessor amp was a Supernait 3. Cardas Clear cabling connects to Dynaudio Contour 60i speakers and a d-03x CD/dac. I’m so glad I bought the 509x. It is a beautiful creation and a real powerhouse in terms of current. The amp is so clean and real with the way it performs. I truly love it and cannot recommend it highly enough.

I agree that spending money on a good phono stage may not be the best expenditure for now. The question then becomes a longer view look at what you hope to achieve; you learn that through listening, trials (hopefully few costly errors) and a budget aimed at maximizing $ to value of equipment. The equipment should be a vehicle through which you are appreciating music, and may or may not involve collecting records, which, over time, may be a considerable expenditure. (Of course, you could be a gear-head and be into to it for the sake of the gear itself). 
I have an Allnic H-3000. I’m in no hurry to change it to something better (I got to it through a lateral move from another highly regarded phono stage) and find that the biggest variable with the H-3000 is rolling the rectifier tube, something you can’t do, so it appears, on the unit you are considering.
I also agree in a weakest link approach and would encourage you to think about where you want to be, with speakers/amp and front end. When I was coming up in hi-fi, it was process-- upgrading, gradually improving, listening. Lots of seat time.
I’m in Austin. You are welcome to visit. (I do not sell audio gear, so I’m not trying to shill you).
Bill Hart

Wahoostewjr- curious is the Sugden a little more neutral than the Luxman? I’ve owned various Luxman amps for 20 years and one day I just stepped away from the golden tone and never looked back.

May I ask which Luxman models which showed the golden tone? I find the Luxman L-590AXII to sound very close to neutral with high levels of clarity and detail. I didn’t compare it to Sugden though but mid level Naim separates which I also own and other amps which I’ve owned throughout the years (Mcintosh, Plinius to name a few).

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses so far.

I saw several recommendations to replace the DAC, Phono, cables, and integrated(!), and in different communication I was told I should replace my speakers ASAP to fix this issue. I suspect there would be some degree of throwing the baby out with the bath water if I were to do all those things, and would essentially be replacing everything in my system. I’m not sure that’s necessary to get what I'm after.

While I understand that Stereophile Recommended rankings aren’t the last word in true sound quality, the MoFi turntable is Class B, as is the Lounge Audio LCR (and that was the base model, mine is Gold plus some additional part upgrades and an LPS, so I’m inclined to think it’s at least high Class B possibly low Class A), the SVS SB-3000 is listed as Class A, the Black Ice (formerly Jolida) DAC won a shootout of multiple DACs up to $5k (and did so with stock tubes, mine has NOS Mullards, tube dampers, upgraded power cord, and it’s truly phenomenal), and The Absolute Sound gave the LSA-10 Statement monitors a glowing review just a year ago. Morrow’s upper range of cables (all of mine are the 6 series) get accolades as well. So I know that I’m at least on the right track.

However, there’s something missing from my vinyl playback in comparison to the digital. That’s what I’m really trying to solve for. Is the “issue” my phono pre (a solid Class B/low Class A performer), or perhaps my integrated? The integrated throws a huge, holographic, detailed, engaging soundstage with my digital playback - honestly it’s everything I want in that regard - so I lean more towards it being something within the vinyl front end - which often feels thin and less engaging, despite having more organic and “real” sound to it.

One caveat is that with the absolute best albums in my collection (AP 45s, MoFi OneSteps, IMPEX, etc) it is a much closer race. Perhaps as it should be. I suspect that those albums sound better on most people’s systems. The difference is that EVERYTHING sounds good on my digital playback ALL THE TIME. I’m not getting the same level of performance from my vinyl setup. I’ve got $4k invested in ultrasonic cleaners, and I’m meticulous with handling, so I don’t believe it’s a media issue.

I’m 100% positive that replacing the Sugden with the Luxman L-509X would be a good jump in quality. I could sell or trade-in my Sugden and LCR, and offset the cost quite a bit. However, I know I’d always wonder how much better that Allnic H-5500 sounded compared to the Luxman’s phono, and if it could’ve been the silver bullet that fixed my analog playback with my current system. It’s a compelling piece of gear, no doubt. The comments regarding the Allnic “unbalancing” my system don’t dissuade me - great gear is great gear. Same with the Luxman. Both are end state devices for me.

So after all that, I’m still sitting square in the middle of the crossroads scratching my head.


….And after rereading my comments before hitting “Post”, I’ve just realized which direction I’m going. The Allnic. I’ll update this thread in a few weeks once I’ve received the H-5500 and had a chance to evaluate its impact in my system. Worst case scenario is that I’ll have to upgrade the rest of my system sooner than later (I see you, Allnic T-2000), but I bet it’s going to be the fix I’m looking for.

For now… ;)

I truly appreciate the feedback from all of you. This feels therapeutic, and I’m excited to report back on how the Allnic sounds.

Hi, I have the Luxman L509X and it is a wonderful amp. That said, the Allnic dedicated phono amp will certainly be superior to the built in one on the Luxman.

Regarding why the digital sounds better is because it IS better. We aren't using 1980s cold, flat digital anymore. There's no comparison to modern digital with quality gear for most people. Pure music, all the dynamic range, and no hiss, pop, and crackle. Not too say Vinyl is bad... It's more a different sound that some people enjoy enough to take on the extra gear and work to listen too. But it is inferior ;-)

I think you are correct about your rig being mid-fi.  My rig is certainly not hi-end by any measure either...but definitely hi-fi.

Digital is difficult to screw up...so 9 times outta 10, it's going to sound great off the bat. But analogue (LP) needs careful matching and a more consideration in set up.

Thet said, I have a very good 32-bit dual differential DAC and it gets trounced by my Technics 1200G with a modest $500 micro line cartridge running through a modest $1200 phono preamp with outboard power supply.

My digital systems sounds great...no pops and hiss. But it's digital...so by nature, there's music information missing. This is why, although my digital sounds great, it never sounds 'spooky' great. If you have a good set up (with a good room) and very good ears, this is not a debate.

If you're up for it, look to upgrade your phono preamp and TT and cart. Look at the Don Sachs phono stage. 

I think digital will eventually win...but it's simply not there yet. 

jet88, that’s precisely why I went the Allnic route. Several folks were casting critical glances at every component BUT my phono pre, but I know how great a high quality digital source sounds through my system.

I figured why not feed it a better analog signal, which should bump the quality up. I’m already considering a LOMC to replace the MasterTracker MM cart. Better cart, better phono pre, better vinyl playback, in theory.

I’ll start a different thread re: possible cartridge upgrades once I’ve received the Allnic and gotten familiar with its sound combined with the MusicTracker. Possible candidates include Hana ML, ZYX Bloom 3, AT ART9, and Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC Star ES. The Hana is the most square in my sights, but I’m open to being persuaded/dissuaded.

I suggest the Allnic, I have had several of their units, both line stage and phono pre’s. They are truly world class components. They have tremendous after sale support and re-sale value. Hammertone Audio is a long term member here and will do anything in their power to get the job done. I started with their H1500 phono over 10 years ago and have gradually upgraded to their flagship models.
 For you, it will be the next step to move from mid-fi(your words) to the next level. Try to move to separates as much as possible, even though cabling gets expensive. Generally speaking multi function units, whether it be a kitchen stove or a tool or electronics will not perform as well as a quality separate component. The other brands mentioned are all reasonable choices also, but the Allnic H5500 will be a franchise player to build a better system with. Do you want a mid-level system forever or eventually have a high-end system. You can’t build a better system with mediocre components, just be realistic with your expectations. Best of luck and enjoy the music!!!  

An update: I received the Allnic H-5500 this afternoon. First off, it’s gorgeous! And larger than I thought it would be. After an hour or so of removing the Lounge LCR, making room for the much larger H-5500, rerouting cables, etc I was able to give it a very brief listen. Definitely more everything there, but went to a movie with the family so didn’t get a very extended listen.

I left it powered up the whole time so I could walk in the door later and get after it. That was two hours ago. I’ve gone through a side or two of some recent albums that get regular rotation (Dead Can Dance, Alt-J, SRV, Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio, The Cure, and yes, Nils Lofgren), and which I’m very familiar with.

This was the right choice for my system. I heard completely new things, nuances, echo, cymbal strikes, and so on that I’ve never heard before from my digital system. And that liquid, organic sound! Seriously, I’m in heaven. I know these are supposed to really come alive in the 50-100 hr mark, so I’m looking forward to reporting back after a little more time with it.

P.S. That Sugden ANV-50 is incredible. The better the source I feed it, the better it performs. Highly recommended.

What matters is that you like it.
I have Allmic H1202 and I like it too. 
However, as others suggested, I also think that Allnic H5500 have more potential than your integrated amp, analog source, and speaker can afford. 
Enjoy the music for a (long) while, and worry about upgrades later on when you can.