Streamer question

I'm fine if Roon has "limitations " but you won't find any mention of that when they are trying to get you to buy their service. 

They should let all prospective users know that they can't handle certain libraries and then let the customer decide if they want to proceed. That would be fair , responsible , and transparent 

But as I discovered over a long 16 months 

Most of Roons "tech support" folks have no idea of this = Bush league or consciously deceptive...as a customer neither is great 

Roon doesn’t like albums that can’t be identified as an official commercial release and its metadata update service chokes on too many.  So a bootleg collector might not be the best use case for it.  Roon’s library function isn’t exactly industrial strength.  Many people have no problem but tend not to be the heavy local collection users with lots of custom stuff.

@mclinnguy, Ah, I understand your statement now.  You’re including all albums of an artist’s works, by the artist himself, or by others.  

Yes. Grateful Dead is the biggest issue for me. Presumably for to the number of tracks under the same artist. 

Despite them having the worst customer service on the planet w/Comcast being it's only competitor ....if you just stream it's likely a great product.

I will admit, I hate the corporate definition of "call us for assistance" equates to "post in this forum", and dozens of know-it-alls with no real experience may or may not respond to your inquiry. 

@doni

I listen primarily to live GDead and Phish so 1,000's of concerts and tracks by the sane artist....this made it impossible for Roon to handle and somehow Innuos Sense has no problem

@mclinnguy 

Before 2024

Prob late 22 early 23

I'm mildly curious as well but no way I'm giving them another dime after my dance with them.

Despite them having the worst customer service on the planet w/Comcast being it's only competitor ....if you just stream it's likely a great product.

@phishhhhh4 

I don't have many tracks, so not an issue for me. I tend to stream everything from Qobuz, so don't feel the need to store music.

But curious, when was this you had this issue- before or after May 2024? Because that is when Roon developed and permitted "folders". Again, I never paid much attention as I don't have folders to worry about, but just curious if it would work now. 

@doni 

I'm just curious here, but could you give me an example of an artist that has over 1000 albums?  Thanks.

Beethoven, why? 

Currently the streamer giving you the best sound quality under $500 that could play local usb storage files is CA MXN10. Take advantage of $100 saving now in holiday.

I'm just curious here, but could you give me an example of an artist that has over 1000 albums?  Thanks.

@mclinnguy 

I have just over 125000 tracks

After 1.5 yrs of problems Roon tech support informed me Room could not handle my library of flac files on my NAS

It was how I organized them in files that was the issue

Roon doesn't really make this stuff known and their customer support model for dealing with such challenges is just plain terrible (*see the 1.5 yes it took them to tell me this).

They then would not refund my $$$ for the subscription nor allow me to return the nucleus + I purchased (with additional memory installed @ their advice ). They told me Room was working as advertised and the problem was my library 

Innuos Sense has zero issues with the very same library 

And support is prompt and competent when you need it.

Thanks! I'll research what you're speaking of.

Roon is flaky for me and sometimes I find it's not worth the hassle of dealing with, so I'd like to option to simplify things and stream directly from Tidal.

I recall reading problems years ago for people with large libraries, I poked around a bit and found this from 2 years ago from a long-standing Roon employee:

"300k (tracks) is fine so long as you run the core on reasonably performant hardware with adequate RAM. Lots of people have libraries in that size range.

Assuming adequate hardware, 500k is where I think most people would start feeling some performance issues, but we have people with much larger libraries than that who seem to be happy too."

So maybe your computer has ran beyond its capability?

Anyway, my Roon ready (certified) "streaming device" provides its signal to my DAC without a USB, and can hold 12TB of music internally, and can control an attached NAS(s)- personally I don't use one.  Roon works perfectly with no glitches. Other player apps to stream Qobuz/Tidal work flawlessly too, they just are not as "nice". 

Is that what you are looking for? 

You are just thinking about "simplifying things" any trying a different app for Tidal because Roon at times doesn't work then? I think most most mid-upper level streamers do the same things as what I mentioned above- Maybe some of the budget streamers too? 

The question is what is your budget? In theory, the higher priced streamers sound better, in my experience they do, but if you are just looking for "easy reliable function" pay less. 

I appreciate the feedback. Again, Roon ran fine for years until my library reached a certain size. And there are occasions it will be trouble free for months. But then it will act up again.

I don't know if the SSD reboots or not. I assume when it's powered down it reboots on startup, but I'm not tech savvy. :-(

"ROON is flakey" maybe a result of ROON updates and the CORE not being rebooted. Are you able to reboot the CORE? This is not as much of an issue these days as in the distant past.

I use a $500 DELL under my bed without a keyboard, mouse, or monitor attached. I just RDP into the machine in the rare times I need to reboot. Does your SSD have an OS?

My DELL is setup to start at 7AM and shutdown at 2:30AM every day. I have 3 of the Sonore OpticalRendu streamers hooked up to my DACs via USB. I use USB because they are the best connection on the 3 DACs I use. 

This setup also uses PowerLine adapters to send the bits to various rooms in the house. System works flawlessly for about a decade now. I used to do some very complex ROON streaming with Convolution Filters, speaker balance adjustment, etc. I use a simpler system now but that complex setup ran fine on my super cheap and low powered DELL. 

I can get away with using a noisy and cheap DELL because I use fibre just before the DAC with the OpticalRendu's. An ideal setup would be to have fibre input in the DACs, but the only DAC I owned that supported that was the Lumin X1 (now sold).

A simple google search for, "can you run Roon core on an SSD attached to a NAS" will answer your question. It won't let me copy and paste here.

I've run Roon in this configuration for probably seven years with no issues. The issues have started as I've passed 10k albums. And more specifically most of my issues are with artists I have more than 1,000 albums for. If I only have a few albums from a particular artist it works fine.

@chrisg1000 you say 

Roon core is on an SSD plugged into the NAS

how is that possible? Roon provides requirements for the Core to run correctly. You need an OS to install Roon, you need CPU and memory to run it. What you’re saying here with your Room core being on SSD plugged into NAS makes less sense than your statement about getting rid of USB. 
 

So what are you talking about?

The most recommended connection for the Holo May is the USB between The DAC and a streamer. I know you said you wanted to get rid of USB connection, but maybe there is another way to do what you want and keep the USB. I use the Lumin U1 to the Holo May via USB and it sounds fantastic.

I use Cambridge Audio CXN 100. Mainly I listen to my own ripped CDs from my NAS. I also use the AirPlay and Chromecast functions to stream from my streaming services (Apple Music and Pristine Classical) but the CA will handle both Tidal and Qobuz directly. The CA also does Internet Radio and Podcasts quite well.

My Melco NAS is also a renderer and accepts Tidal and Qobuz. It lacks the other features of the CA and the OP already has a NAS.

  I don’t use Roon

Excellent Holo Audio streamer.  I have the Cyan 2 and love it.  I picked up an Innuos Zen Mk3 streamer with 1TB storage to rip CDs and the pairing sounds great.  Got it used from a helpful local dealer for $1800.  Innuos has a range of streamer options and prices and have excellent customer support.  

If you decide to keep roon, I recommend you to use a NUC with rock kit installed that will be your streaming server. Plus you can still your NAS if you want. NUC and dac connected to Ethernet wire separately. No connection between the two and no usb involved. I had this configuration with success for a while. 

This is what I use, 1 for each of my 3 DACs. I ONLY use ROON, so this lower end Rendu model works perfectly. The more expensive ones support other streaming services protocols. This one only does RATT.

I compared this with the $15k Lumin X1 streamer/DAC which I also owned before. Both are great.

Sonore OpticalRendu Lite--Free Shipping! For Sale - US Audio Mart

Here are the Roon partners that jeffbij is talking about. You might look at the Holo Red as a Roon Bridge since you have a May KTE DAC. It can also be an endpoint for Signalyst/HQ Player if you have any interest in it. 

Agreed, very nice DAC.  

In case you didn't know, if you go to the RoonLabs web site, under the "About" menu, you can see the different manfacturers who have "Roon Ready" devices.  You would be looking for what Roon shows as a "bridge".

If I remember correctly, the May KTE has a I2S port on it.  If so, you might want to take a look at the PS Audio Air Lens ($2000 new).  It is just a streamer.  No DAC, or other add-ons.  I'm very happy with mine.  It has an I2S connection and from experience, it is better than either USB or Coax connections.

That’s a nice DAC. Consider a higher end streamer. But I don’t know what you mean by need to get rid of USB. What connection are you looking to use? 

10,000 albums. 125k + tracks. 

DAC is a Holo Audio May KTE. This is why I don’t want a DAC, just a streamer  

How big is your music library?  The Bluesound Node is rated at over 200,000 individual tracks.  Roon is supposed to handle 100,000 but I have seen posts that say they were getting more than that. 

Would also help to know what the rest of your equipment is, especially what DAC you are using?

What’s your budget?

I tried a bluesound once and returned it. As I recall it sounded odd and also couldn’t handle the size of my library.

But, thanks for the advice. 

BlueSound starts at $299 and will play files direct. A cheap WiiM will not. This method is much simpler than a NAS connected through DLNA.

Thanks. I have a decent system, just want to lose the USB cable. 
I’ll work on the Roon issues separately. 

@chrisg1000 The roon forum/fora aka Roon Labs Community is terrific and you will get all the help you need there. I use Roon and it’s plays some of my ripped flac files from a disk w/ no problems.
Plenty of streamers to choose from that function as a roon end point. Done right digital can sound like vinyl. Just add money and serve.

Thanks. Appreciate the response.

Chris,  this should be pretty simple.  Since you are streaming from the Internet, I'm assuming you have at least a wireless network setup.  What you need is a Roon "Endpoint", ie the streamer, to connect to the DAC (or bypass the DAC and go straight to the integrated amp.)  There are loads of devices out there, all the way from the inexpensive WiiM Pro ($149), to the tried and true Bluesound devices (<$500), to $10,000 plus stuff.  So in the end, you have the NAS connected to the PC on the network.  And the streamer connected to the network (wired or wireless) > DAC or straight to the integrated amp.  No more USB cable needed.