My experience is that it is next to impossible to have an intelligent conversation with Mr. Bobby Kingma, i.e. Bo1972. It is like talking with Forrest Gump or with a talking parrot. Irrespective of the topic discussed, he will invariably start preaching about one of the following topics:
1) "2d and 3d sound”
2) “qualities" of electronics
3) The fact that he has an identical sound memory.
4) How almost all subwoofers are slower then the Monitor Audio subs he is selling
5) The fact the the editor of a dutch magazine has call him to tell him that he has had the best sound at a dutch show that was organised in 2012.
He is doing the same thing also on the dutch forums, and to me (not a native dutch speaker) he sound somewhat illiterate also when writing in dutch (his native language). Thus, my advice is to simply ignore him. I hope Audiogon will some day introduce an ignore button. |
I have been using SST products for a while now.
Better in my system than SP no doubt.
Although a mixture of both did work pretty well in my past system with 5`s under speakers and 101`s under DAC computer and amps.
New system will only have DAC and speakers requiring isolation.... apart from conditioners cables and resonators etc of course but that`s another story.
I shall try the 5`s again soon.
Whats so ugly about SST? Those high grade brass rods are impressive and look pretty cool as far as i am concerned. Plenty of people have made positive comments on them in my room. Can`t wait to try `Stage`, when available, under DAC.
Once again thanks for the tip Gary.
Anyhow i have been trying to contact Robert at SST for the past 2 weeks with no reply which is a bit unusual. Has anyone heard anything?
Or could someone over there please check or something?
It is a bit difficult being down under. |
Bo1972, your stuff on 2d versus 3d is a crock. Because I put so much into my stereo, which I presume you would call 2d, and especially with SPs, I get a very realistic sound stage and sense of being at the recording venue. Also, if by 3d you mean multi-channel, I have never heard anything that would make me want to buy such. I know no one with a multi-channel setup.
If you don't mean by 2D and 3D what I am saying, please explain your terms. |
Hahahahaha...gold is hot...mmmmm....not!!
In my eyes it is an ugly colour. I am not a fan of spikes in general.
I am from the other side of the world..... |
what!, The thread got Hijacked, man, not again. |
That is why I said: I am better in sound than in words. Sound says it all.
Comparing between different options is the fun part of audio.
In 7 years of time I tell people first the difference between 2 and 3 dimensional sound. After this I give a demo. When they go to other shops they come back. And Always give the same answer; 3d is so much more involving.
I also hear it in the reactions. People who have a 3d sound play a lot more music compared to people who play 2 dimensional.
People who played 2 dimensional and play now 3 dimensional. Say that they never had so much fun in listening.
At the end audio is about music and listening. So keep it simple and convincing. |
With rare exceptions (such as recordings with phase anomalies), two-channel stereo doesn't produce 3-dimensional sound. My experience of 30+ years paints quite a different picture. And without exception, such performance requires a tube line stage / preamp with tube regulated PS to pull it off in spades. When I can follow musicians moving around on stage, closer to me and further from me, and not just lateral positional changes, I'd call that 3D. |
Glory,
Your posts and comments seldom make much sense to me or are worthwhile. Let's just agree that we communicate differently and leave it at that.
Charles, |
Bo 1972, I've been listening to two-channel for a lot longer than 16 or 18 years. With rare exceptions (such as recordings with phase anomalies), two-channel stereo doesn't produce 3-dimensional sound. Unless of course there's a problem in the playback chain. In that case it would be better to call it 3-distortional sound. |
Bo1972, I have no use for anything you say, but you certainly have the right to say it. I will, however, give you a piece of advice that you might entertain, namely polish you SP Ultra 5s until you can see yourself in the reflection. Start with 1000 grit emery fine polishing paper and remove all machining and scrathes, then go to 2000 grit, and finally when it looks very smooth go to 2500 and lastly use metal polish on it being sure that you get no polish in between the parts and onto the ceramic balls. |
It is not about what people say, audio is about what you really can hear.
The thing I don't like in audio is that it often is based on political choices and how much money it will make.
Audio should be about quality and realism. I love music and good audio makes it even better.
But the problem is that there is so much shit on the market. When you have visited many people who spend a lot of money on audio you are aware how easy it is to get a low or average endresult even after spending a lot of money.
The 3D part makes music come more alive. I want as much people as possible get a stunning sound so they can enjoy their beloved music.
The Stillpoints have a positive influence on the overall sound. And it adds some extra qualities.
You Always need to be aware of the improvement and what it costs. Because you can use the same money for other improvements as well.
I really like the comments made on my remarks. You make me think how to do it differently. What people would like to see differently is the thing that counts most.
That is why I said; it is a personal thing that I don't like the gold colour. It doens't make any sense at all.
Audiogon is for me a fun place to be. I get a lot of important information of many people. And no I am not perfect either.
I still want to change audio in general. Because I have seen a lot of limitations in the 16 years I am in this business.
Maybe I am a direct person and often people think it is about me. The F word is used because I am irritated by the low level in endresult in audio in general.
The possitive thing is that I communicate a lot these days with distributers to change things.
I want to cooperate with them togheter. That means giving demos with many different brands at one time instead of only a few brands.
Because the endresult for audio lovers need to get better.
I have said it before; in the US there are many more brands and options. In the Netherlands we don't have many of the stuff you own here on Audiogon.
I Always look to find information about the stuff I never heard of. |
Bo1972,
"I didn't buy the Ultra SS for the looks. I bought them first because I love the extra quality they can give."
That contradicts what you have said previously. And how do you know what extra quality they give unless you have tried their competition? No matter what anyone says, complaining about the color of brass is just plain silly, especially when you can barely see it beneath the speakers. Jeez, the way you guys talk, you'd think you were wearing them on the end of your noses. |
Tbg,
"Roxy54, the brass surface on the Audio Points is very important".
Of course it is, I was just being sarcastic. |
Hey Bo
Sounds like with F... words you are using you are trying to show your angst. If your 1972 moniker has anything to do with when you were born, please keep in mind a lot of these gentlemen on this thread and on Agon are two, three or four decades older than you. We are just trying to have a helpful and interesting discussion about our experiences in audio. You say the same thing over and over many times. I appreciate your view and what you have said but, it does not bear repeating more than a few times otherwise it is not contributing something positive. If you notice on each one of these threads, each one deals with something specific. Though you speak in generalities or non-specifically, in other words much of what you say you could apply to anything in life. Those are generalities. What this and others threads deal with are something specific. I think that with the ?15 - ?20 yrs experience you have it could be an asset to out community if you share specifics. Please try to be more specific and you will have much more valuable things to contribute. Cheers Bo1972 |
1972,
What's the F.... stuff mean in your posts?
Gold is hot. My whole system is Gold.
You from NY, sir??
"I will write a review about the Ultra SS soon for under my speakers. It is impressive what it does. Without it you miss a lot."
Had them under my speakers and the Sistrum stuff is just so much better. Of course ugly is sin! |
The gold colour makes it look cheap and F...ugly. I don't understand why they didn't use a silver look. The choice of brass is purely a matter of material science. Furthermore, the fabrication and material cost is significantly higher than Stillpoints. They are substantial pieces. I am glad you like your Stillpoints. i have owned both and at this juncture prefer SS. |
I didn't buy the Ultra SS for the looks. I bought them first because I love the extra quality they can give.
It is an important bonus for me that they look great. |
At the end you have to compare it yourself. I don't F...care what manufacturers say. Because I have proven that many times they were wrong.
You are the one who can hear if you prefer it or not. It is that easy.
The gold colour makes it look cheap and F...ugly. I don't understand why they didn't use a silver look.
I will write a review about the Ultra SS soon for under my speakers. It is impressive what it does. Without it you miss a lot. |
Who'a daddy? Who's my daddy? |
Pkoegz, FWIW the Audiopoints on the Star Sound platforms are un-ostentatious solid brass and will not be mistaken for gold plate or jewelry. |
Audiophiles are goofy creatures. Whine about the eternal struggle for good sound and yet pull up short in the name of aesthetics??? A little schizophrenic if you ask me. Again, the brass cones are essentially invisible from a conversational distance. This hand wringing is purely academic. I own the magico Q5's. I contacted magico and asked about the spikes and spike plates. I wanted larger ones to protect my floors. They advised me that the spikes that come with the speakers are designed for the speakers and other spikes may adversely effect the sound of the speakers Did they provide an engineering basis for this? A lot of speaker manufacturers get pissy and territorial when it comes to this subject.... |
Dad,
I may have my preference in the Star vs the Still but you are missing the point and usually do.
Read you post I copied real SLOWWWW and report back. :)
Seekers of sizzle, hint. People vs components. |
"not a fan of gold in audio equipment. Looks overstated and fake"
You do realize that brass's gold color results from its ingredients, right? |
I own the magico Q5's. I contacted magico and asked about the spikes and spike plates. I wanted larger ones to protect my floors. They advised me that the spikes that come with the speakers are designed for the speakers and other spikes may adversely effect the sound of the speakers. So they remained as is. On another note I am with Bo1972, not a fan of gold in audio equipment. Looks overstated and fake. Don't wear any jewelry any more. My personal view only. I do have still point ultra 5's on my tt. Did NOT notice any dramatic change in sound quality from the original footers. But look really cool, beefy, solid looking. They give the appearance they should sound better. As if they would provide a more solid bottom end. But to me, only the appearance. Just MY view, for what it's worth. |
There is so much marketing hokum surrounding footers and their costs can be so great that it is absurd for any audiophile worth his moniker to make a cut based only on aesthetics. On trousers maybe, though in custom tailoring whether ones "dresses" to the left or the right can be paramount!
In my system I have a mix of Ultra 5, SS, Starsound SP-1, and now Starsound Apprentice. These all work well and are largely invisible. Where I have directly compared the two technologies-- under CDP and just now under Pass XA-160.8 monoblocks-- the Star Sound platforms worked better. Where rugs are involved or where leveling is required(i.e. turntable), Stillpoints with their adjustable bases work particularly well. However, even Stillpoints are improved after removing the rug. This is curious, as I understand that Stillpoints devices are conceived to be inherently decoupling. |
Bo the Audio Consultant? Hardly! Maybe interior decorator is more appropriate.
There are some wild looking amps and speakers out there but with so much competition in these areas, it's easy to find one of great sound and acceptable looks. And such products can make quite a physical presence in the room. But with few standout isolation products, dismissing a top notch performer because of cone color is ridiculous at best. |
Roxy54, the brass surface on the Audio Points is very important. |
Bo1972, you can always spray paint the Audio Points black. And ruin the sound, but hey if looks are most important to you, that shouldn't matter. |
Bol,
With you guys discussing polishing Stillpoints, maybe you should consider plating the brass in chrome. I think that your attitude is ridiculous in this respect.
You claim to be a perfectionist, and you are a sound consultant, but in the end, your priority is in the looks.
Maybe you should be called "The Audio Jeweler". |
I personally hate the gold colour. Like I hate rings and other jewelry in gold.
I want to see as little as possible. It is just personal! |
Jafox is correct, the platforms are virtually unseen once a component is placed on them. Since we're discussing "audio", I'd be persuaded by which product subjectively improves sound quality the most convincingly.
Charles, |
I don't want a tool what is ugly. Even when people would pay me money every day I don't want it.
I get irritated by ugly looking audio stuff. For a perfectionist this is a 100% no go.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154404084510083&set=pcb.10154404097775083&type=1&theater
better looking..... |
Bo1972, once you put a component on the Sistrum, you won't see the darn thing anyway. And let's face it, a lot of audio gear is ugly as hell. |
07-13-14: Bo1972
The Sistrum SP-1 is ugly as hell, it even hurts to my eyes!!
Compared to what? If IKEA particle board shelving is your idea of beauty, I guess I could understand that bias better. Sistrum shelving does not blend seamlessly into a standard living room nor is it meant to. It is designed for performance just like your speakers or any other piece of gear. Aesthetics is part of my day job, and I don't find the Starsound stuff ugly. |
|
The Sistrum SP-1 is ugly as hell, it even hurts to my eyes!!
lol.... |
Of course it's a hierarchy of preference. You've obviously have established some form of a hierarchy in choosing the Star Sound over the Stillpoint. How else would you have made a judgement/decision? We rate and place in catagories products that we hear and do our best to describe it to others.It you have a different vernacular than mine that's your choice.
Charles, |
Ring,
That is a long 72 :)
Had 16 USS and sold them as the Sistrum was/is better. Now we have the 5. Then the 6 and 7 ....
The Star will beat out all Still # every time Ha
All gear on SP-1 stands for the sake of space/room. Speakers on SPK.
Oh how nice it is to get this part of Audio out of the way and live with THE STAR. |
''All of these stellar products are for those who love music rather than seekers of Hifi hype and sizzle.''
This thought is so old and worn out. Can we ALL please move on and leave this in the audio trash can? So hierarchy sounding. |
Oh, ok, I undestand, I will see if I still need them then, thankyou TBG. |
Audiolabyrinth, remember what I said. First all I have is the little 1 inch or so round cones. I think I have two sets. And most important they are in Texas and I'm in New Mexico until late Sept. |
TBG, I still plan to take your advise on the 103 stands for the speakers when I get the money together, I will give the star sound a whirl, I do trust your ears, norm, I have been thru alot, I just got my system back on line after a year and a couple weeks off line, you will not believe the hell I have been thru, it's like a audio horror story!, lots of money, heart ache, etc....Thankyou Norm. |
@ TBG, awsome!, Are your polycrystal footers for componets?, I have the speaker spikes, I will no longer use the stillpoints ultra ss anymore!, TBG, if you have the big componet footers you would make my year!, I will pay shipping, I pay you for the poly componet footers as well too if you like, man, thankyou Norm. |
Today I received 12 Stillpoints Ultra SS for my speakers and subwoofer. I will write a review about it in a few weeks. |
Agear, I was unaware of the all brass version of the Star Sound Backstage. Thanks for the head up.
Charles1dad, the Stillpoints Ultra series and their racks, in my opinion, are not displaced by the Star Sound platforms. Platforms cannot replace feet in all circumstances. The two technologies have different characteristics also.
At one point I was totally shocked at how superior the Stillpoint's technology for absorbing vertical vibration were to the nearly countless points and feet of virtually every material and springs of many styles I now have in boxes. I fully understand how this technology works.
More recently I have experienced the Star Sound Technology Apprentices, which I know rest on a completely different thought, namely get the vibrations quickly as possible to ground.
What you hear with these two devices is quite different and a hard choice. One is quick and dynamic, especially evident on brass instruments and drums. The other gives a sound stage that is very defined and real.
Presently I use a mix as small devices do not work on the about 10 by 14 inch platforms and the Star Sound platforms are, as yet, not released. |
Audiolabyrinth, I have several boxes of the Polycrystal cones that I would just give you were the two of us in Texas right now. But I will not be back there until October. Frankly I hated them as I did the carbon fibre cones. |
I feel like I need to tell you gentleman here, A long time ago, To me, The most profound resonance control went out of bussiness from the lack of keeping up with demand of sales, so bruce badlack of polycrystal closed down!, I lucked up, found some footers for speakers, I owned thousands of dollars of this stuff back in the day of the late 90s, I will never use my still points again, as of the good ole days, Polycrystal is the shxxx!, Rare to find any, as a matter of fact, Bruce used my invention, the disablocks, for top tunning of componets, they sold quite well, so if anybody has polycrystal products, I will give you double than what you paid new for them! |
The audio press has been very enamored with the Stillpoint products. It will be interesting to see how they find the different engineering approach of Star Sound products. Time will tell.
Charles, |
I look forward to Agear's inevitable purchase of the Backstage platforms and how they improve upon the Apprentice's high standards that we've established here. Agear don't keep us waiting too long. and Agear,
Your SOTA mechanically grounded listening room demands that the Backstage find a permanent home there. Lord have mercy. Well, if you really want to push towards the lunatic fringe as I am prone to, the Starsound Stage platforms are the obvious answer. They are an ALL BRASS version of the backstage. Due to inflationary pressure on raw materials such as brass, they will be $$$$. My wife would truly be filled with homicidal rage at that juncture. I can hear her now: "Brass stands? Really?" Well, I am glad for Robert, Tom and the Starsound collective for the resurrection of their company and technology. The Apprentice stands are a very modest investment for the performance you get. The audio press is finally starting to take notice: http://www.stereotimes.com/post/sistrum-apprentice-series-spsa103-platform/ |
I have a table that can be used. The alloy I was seeing and hearing in "surround sound" had an additive that was a hardener to increase the wear characteristics. Great if you needed brakes for your race car but this one additive made for some crazy scenes. Less than one percent can make for some large differences so there was a long selection process and much listening to all the many concepts. Tom |
