Start with Upgrade to DAC?

WOW.  Did I set off a storm!

I appreciate all the advice guys (and gals if any are involved).  Being quite pleased with the Schiit Bifrost 2/64, I queried Schiit as to whether I would be able to detect a significant difference between the Bifrost and the Yggdrasil, and their surprising answer was "no."  So, based on what I have read here, I am going to start by replacing my streamer and going to either Tidal or Qobuz  (I need to check them both out).  One key criteria I have in my purchases now is to avoid buying things from the PRC; that is not to say they don't make some good stuff, but having spent nearly four decades as an Intelligence officer, I see China preparing for war in the Pacific, and I don't want to contribute--via taxes on their companies--to the Chinese military in any way.  Having said that, I realize that such a position radically constrains my choices in a streamer.  One brand I have found is Innuous, which makes their streamers in Portugal.  Given that my budget is around $3Kto $4K for a streamer, I am thinking of the Zen MkIII, which can rip CDs and has a linear power supply.  The Pro-Ject S2 Ultra has some ambiguous reviews, so I eliminated that. Are there other non-PRC options out there?  

As for the streaming service, I like convenience, so between Tidal and Qobuz, is one more convenient to use than the other?

Finally, thanks to all who commented, and I can see that there are those who are even a bit more passionate than me about this business of getting the best music reproduction possible within certain financial constraints.  )Fortunately, we live in a still free country, and people are entitled to their own opinions.)  I think I am pretty close to what I can achieve within my financial limits.  Thanks again ... to all who commented.

@mike4597 you’re on the right track with replacing the streamer. As to non-PRC options, Aurender is awesome. If you don’t need Roon, a used Aurender N10 is going to be amazing. 

Soix

I understand, and you know I very often respect your input. In this case no one is going to convince anyone, and the OP is getting no valuable input. 

@mike4597 I have an Innuous Zen MK3 and I'm very happy with it.  I didn't buy it for the cd ripper, but I actually use it a fair bit.  Pop a cd in and it rips a copy to my library in under 5 minutes.  Real easy.

I use the Sense app by Innuous with Qobuz.  Assuming you would as well, I don't know if the convenience would be any different between Qobuz and Tidal. 

 I queried Schiit as to whether I would be able to detect a significant difference between the Bifrost and the Yggdrasil, and their surprising answer was "no." 

This answer maybe different based on who you spoke with at Schitt. I called them a few months ago to discuss the Yiggi+ MIB DAC. The guy I spoke to cursed out the Yggi+ LIM DAC that I owned and told me the Yggi+ OG was much better. I took his advice and got the last OG available (Schitt replaced it with the MIB). 

It took a month of burn-in for me, the same as what Robert Harley reported in TAS a few years ago. However, after that burn-in I could tell that the OG was much different than the LIM. Either could be preferred by people over the other. I love both and have then in 2 separate systems.

I have not heard the Bitfrost but based on my experience I described above I would think the MIB or LIM is much better than the Bitfrost. It would of course depend on the sonic match with your system and how revealing your system was.

I use a used $700 Sonore OpticalRendu streamer, which uses fibre optic cable (glass) just before it goes into a USB conversion and into the DAC. Not as pure a fibre solution as the Lumin X1 (owned it before) but close in execution.

Only issue with the Yggi+ DACs is that it sometimes shuts down for 1/2 second between songs on a ROON stream. That is if the next song is a bit slow to play. Irritating at first but the sound of the Yggi+ is so good that I do not care. Saved me $20k by eliminating my desire to buy the Playback Designs DAC.

CUSTOMER: I came here for a good argument.
MR. BARNARD: No you didn’t. You came here for an argument.
CUSTOMER: Well an argument’s not the same as contradiction.
MR. BARNARD: Can be

___________

If we can move back to the original questions about what might be suggested as the next area for upgrade of the poster's listed system, that would be enjoyable. I am new to streamers as of 2-3 years, having started with the humble Bluesound Node, third generation. Purchased new, still in play.

I was also stunned by having access to all the music available from streaming.

My best guess in looking at your system would be to get a dac that you might stick with for a while. The 2/64 got decent reviews, as did the Bifrost 2 before it. I liked my Bifrost 2 at the time, but the Holo bettered it. There are good choices if you choose to upgrade here. I am unable to say whether a dac or a streamer would make the most difference.

I've heard an Innuous setup briefly at a neighbor's house. It was very detailed. I have to return the book I borrowed, so that I might listen again. The speakers were two days out of the box and lovely.

https://www.audiogon.com/systems/users/cosmic_charlie

This is supposed to be fun, remember.

@zarf I think the best bang for your buck streamer, especially if you use ROON, is the Sonore OpticalRendu. I have owned about 5 or 6 of them. I sold a few to friends and setup their streaming. I currently have 2 of them with both the audiophile power supply and the much cheaper power supply from Sonore. Go for the cheaper power supply.

Since I owned the Lumin X1 I would also highly recommend the following Lumin streamer based on the X1, but this one has no DAC.

LUMIN U2 (luminmusic.com)

That and the Yggi+ OG maybe a future setup for me. It sounds different than the Sonore OpticalRendu. I call the Lumin a wild child streamer vs the refined sounding Sonore opticalRendu.

Another streamer that would be perfect if it had fibre optical, but maybe great nevertheless, could be the

ARIES S1 - AURALIC

I say potentially great because my now sold Playback Designs STREAM-IF was great using SPDIF output from an Ethernet input. The Aries S1 also takes in Ethernet unlike the Lumin and Sonore, which take in fibre.

I tended to stay away from Ethernet streaming but the Playback Designs steamer was so good using Ethernet.

BTW - I should add that the digital Leedh volume control on the Lumin is almost as good as the great volume control on the Benchmark LA4 preamp. I compared the 2 side-by-side. The difference is really a non-factor for almost everyone. Normally digital volume controls are really subpar compared to an analog preamp, especially the LA4.

@yyzsantabarbara the ask from the OP was about non-PRC units

As for the streaming service, I like convenience, so between Tidal and Qobuz, is one more convenient to use than the other?

I used to be very anti Tidal due to their higher pricing and absurd MQA requirement for hi res, but both of those things have changed so music selection may now be the biggest differentiator between the two. I will say as a Qobuz user I find their search function subpar. It works, but often I search for things I know are there and they still don’t come up — very frustrating. I’ve since learned how to work with it, but it’s an unnecessary weakness that Qobuz frustratingly seems unwilling to improve. It’s not a huge deal and overall I’m very happy with Qobuz, but I mention it because you’re asking about convenience and this is one area — along with playlists if those are important to you — that you might want to pay attention to as you compare the two.

I totally respect your rationale for wanting to avoid PRC products, and I think you’re on the right track with the Zen Mk3 especially if easily ripping CDs is important, and you’re also getting their excellent Sense app and customer service that are very significant pluses. And of course sound quality is among the best in your price range. Hope this helps, and best of luck. If you do get the Innuos I’d be very interested in your thoughts as I’ve also got a Zen Stream and am also strongly considering the Zen Mk3 as an upgrade.

@mike4597 

Yeah, sorry for pyrotechnics. several of us obviously have a history that can get in the way of helpful feedback.  Here’s an interesting take on streamers in the context of their functioning as DDCs, which I hadn’t really thought of before (though it is obvious).  Anyway, this guy does some pretty good work trying to marry subjective and objective.  More importantly, you might find his voice less annoying than mine, lol!  Good luck in your journey:

DDCs/Streamers

@mike4597 

oh, and on your specific request re other streamers at or below your budget (full disclosure, of my 5 current streamers, 2 are the Zen Stream and the S2 Ultra): Other units I’ve considered in the $1000 or under price point include Primare N2 Prisma, Holo Red, and Volumio Rivo.  And as others have heard ad nauseum, I’m a huge fan of the streamer reviews on HiFi News, particularly the lab reports section to give insight into what you’re getting, or not, as you climb the $ tree.  (No other print or on-line review source has reviewed as many streamers as they have, so it’s a great resource.)

@mike4597 I saw you mention that you are considering using room treatments. You can use the physical treatments like I use in my office. Very ugly but they work well, and the wife stays out of the office, so she does not care how ugly they are.

Now if I were to use or need acoustic treatments in the Livingroom I would go with Mitch Barnett at,

Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolver, Headphone Filtersets (accuratesound.ca)

I used his great remote DSP service in the past and the dude is a digital genius. This DSP will only work for a signal before it goes into your DAC. So, no benefit with a tuner or TT.

The cost of his remote service is $750. I no longer use the DSP files I had created for my office, but it is a great safely net to have. One reason I no longer use the DSP (convolution files) is because I have different speakers. The Magnepan LRS+ is actually rather easy to place in my office.