Speakers replace or improve?

Musical Fidelity has great used prices for some reason. I had an A1008 which was originally a 6k integrated back in 2009ish. Great amp with tons of power. Even the dac and phono were more than descent. Those pop up for low 1000s. I thought I was getting a great deal at $1400 but ended up having to sell it at $1100. One of these or similar would wake those Polks up and be ready for a speaker upgrade in the future. I’m in the camp of get some descent power before you go speaker shopping. 

If you're looking for $1,500 speakers with good bass,I would recommend definite technology DM40s

With a built-in amplifier.

I got into Hi-Fi 2019 that was the first speaker I bought that speaker was Great with my Yamaha amplifier. The bass was great had radiators on the side rear firing mid-range well worth 1500.00

Hello, 

Thank you very much for your suggestions. 

Normally, I don't use loudness control to boost the bass. I was experimenting to see if speakers can produce the bass. I found that they can. They just need much more volume/power then I can apply in my small living room. If I put more volume then treble and mids will be way too loud.

So, my option right now is to use my Polk Audio sub. Not the best sub but it does its job. 

Then, when I have more time, I will try bi-amp option. I will try to connect woofers on the speakers to my 25 years old more powerful Sony receiver. I just need to order speakers wires and RCA splitter.

Thanks

I would suggest replacing the Ortofon 2M Blue Cartridge. I love mine (it was an easy step up from the Red), but I already had a "warm" system in my den with an old Polk Subwoofer. The Blue is known for not being a "warm" cart. Others on here with more experience might recommend a MM cart that has more bass oomph to it. +1 for those recommending bypassing the built-in phone amp in the RT-85 and getting say the Schiit Mani.

I have an EQ in my "real" system and use it sometimes. But the issue is that just like Erin’s Audio Corner has shown on his YouTube channel, not all speakers respond well to EQ, so whether or not your Polk will is an open question.

In essence that is what your loudness control is trying to do...boost bass and treble but that is *supposed* to be for listening at low volumes not normal ones. Your use of it and then trying to compensate by turning down the treble just isn’t a good solution as you have no idea of what it is doing throughout the frequency bands.

Good luck. If all else fails, I tongue-in-cheek recommend investing in a good headphone set up. Then you don’t have to worry about upsetting the neighbors.

On a lark, do you have a friend that has a decent AVR with room correction? Maybe you could borrow it one weekend and see if DSP could adjust things for you. If so, at least you’d know the speakers were not the weak link.

Great site. Thanks.

@grislybutter 

Very useful indeed thanks ...😊

absolutely, a lot of good choices: https://speakerchoices.com

Are there decent inexpensive (below $1500 a pair) speakers for a small room?

absolutely, a lot of good choices: https://speakerchoices.com

Well, sometimes it looks like the issue is with the turntable. But when I played records on my previous turntable (Audio-Technica AT-LP120 with Shure M97xE Cartridge)  I experienced the same problem. Probably preamp in the phono input on my YAMAHA amplifier is not working well. I am thinking to get a preamp and try to connect the Fluance RT85 Turntable  to CD input to see if it makes any difference. 

But for now I will sue my Polk Audio sub.

No, I don’t have a friend who can let me borrow his sub. But when I turn on my sub it produces more than I need bass. I just need to learn how to use it properly

There should be a knob on the sub’s back called crossover. Set it to 60 hz or so for now.

There should be another knob on its back called volume. Ya crank it counterclockwise until there’s no too much bass...and the sub’s bass feels like it’s coming out the speaker, not the sub. In other words, the sub should disappear and the speaker should sound like a non-flaccid bass capable speaker 

@sukhenkoi I think you need to step back for a minute. It looks like you are all over the place with trial and error. What you are experiencing is very common when folks have home theater gear and then want a taste of High Fidelity. Good for you. But you need to start over and approach things a little differently.

Going back to the original set up in your opening post, you say that CD sounds good. That means your system is functioning at a basic level. If this is the case, then the issue is with the vinyl source.

Is that correct?

No, I don't have a friend who can let me borrow his sub. But when I turn on my sub it produces more than I need bass. I just need to learn how to use it properly because it has two knobs and two switches. 

I was trying to avoid using the sub because I can't put it in front. It sits close to the right side wall. But it looks like I need to use my subwoofer all the time. And probably buy a second sub. 

My sub allows wiring speakers to the sub. Is this a good option? Right now my speakers wired to the amp and the sub connected to the amp.

That open area is going to cause loading problems. You really need to buy a couple of good subs that will proplerly load that whole area. Which means to get good bass you need something that will really move a lot of air. Forget the cheaper subs, they are not going to cut it. That is a larger area you are trying to bass load. Do you have a friend you who will let you borrow a couple of large subs so you can try it out?

fletcher munson 'loudness' curve(s)

we hear less bass and less highs as the volume lowers.

Fletcher Munson Filters (named 'Loudness' (a stupid name, it should be called 'Low Volume Boost.

As you lower volume from your normal listening level: 'Loudness' PROGRESSIVELY boots the bass, leaves the mids alone, and boosts the highs.

Your manual suggests a different solution, by progressively cutting the mids, it 'in a sense' creates the same result. This method might be good for low powered amps (that would distort trying to boost bass), and/or inefficient speakers that need more a lot of power (or a combo of both).

IN any case, you do not cut the highs.

IN any case you do not alter loudness by -30db

This is why I think this is a JOKE.

Oh...and in your case, it sounds like you may also want to move the broken record player's location to ---= trash can. 

I also have the Polk Audio PSW108 subwoofer but I don’t use it because there is no room for the sub in my living room. 

You are probably sitting right on top of a couple of strong modal nulls (the widthwise primary if you sit right in the widthwise middle...and it is probably coupled with a strong lengthwise, a heighwise, etc). In such scenarios, you will have very flaccid bass, no matter what speaker or amp you get (might as well sell everything and start dancing to imaginary music).

A subwoofer is also a modal treatment device, if placed and set up correctly. If you only have a single sub....try placing it nearfield around your couch. Tell wife that it's a stand for your beer to improve WAF.

So, your system sounds fine with CDs but just not with vinyl.  That would’ve been important info to have included in your original post dontcha think???  I wasted some time researching your issue for nothing because of this significant oversight on your part.  When you’re asking people to donate their valuable time to help you it’d be nice if you made the minimal effort to at least tell us the critical info we need to know.  Maybe keep this in mind for the next time you ask for help here.  Peace out.

Hey OP,

For a modest apartment you should have as much bass as you need, and indeed it sounds like you can get it, you are just afraid of the neighbors.

Check out the AM Acoustics room mode simulator and try to keep your speakers and listening location out of the lowest modes.

Is your room too reflective? A room with untreated walls will sound much brighter.

Also, be sure your woofers are actually working!! If the straps on the back get removed you may be missing their output.

And I am not a self-described bass freak. I just want my sound to be balanced. I don't want to hear only highs and mids.

I think you are wrong about Loudness control. Below is that the manual says about Loudness:

"Making it easier to hear the high- and low-frequency ranges even at low volume (LOUDNESS)

Enjoy natural sound even at low volume by lowering the mid-range sound level and compensating for the human ears’ loss of sensitivity to high- and low-frequency ranges at low volume.

Oh, fuuuuk me, it’s an April Fools Day Joke!

Is this a joke?

Keep in mind, bass is only part/not a lot of the music you are playing. To cut higher frequencies out all the time is not the way to solve it.

"The treble and mids are ok but the bass is very weak."

(Polk's two 8" woofers and a front port, in a small room should sound good)

"To make the speakers to produce some bass I reduce treble"

(bad!), (the speakers are producing all the bass they can, cutting treble from everything, all the time will not sound good)

"reduce the Loudness setting  from Flat to -30db"

(bad!) ('loudness' is for low volume listening. it boosts bass, progressively as you lower the volume) (cutting the effect of loudness is going opposite to what you want)

"and turn volume to very high. But I live in a townhouse and can’t do that most of the time".

('loudness' is what you want, especially at low volume).

(normally at normal/loud volumes, the 'loudness' filter should be OFF to prevent too much bass).

(for you, a self-described bass freak: you could try leaving 'loudness' on when listening loud, leaving every other frequency alone, just boosting bass))

"If possible I would like to increase the bass. I know that this question was asked many times and there is no universal solution. My home stereo is located in the small living room which practically doesn’t have a back wall because there is a big opening between the living room and the dining room.

(are there partial walls at the sides, i.e. corners?)

(if not, you could build short walls, say 3' long behind each speaker, put the speakers close to both side and rear wall).

I also have the Polk Audio PSW108 subwoofer but I don’t use it because there is no room for the sub in my living room."

(you need to figure out how to use a PAIR of subs, self-powered, front firing, located adjacent to the Polks).

If this is the case, the issue is with your turntable and or the phono amplification. Buy a $149 Schiit Mani 2 and bypass the integrated phono input. Ensure the turntable is mounted on a solid surface. Remove lid if possible when playing.

It is also connected to the same amp and the speakers. The bass is much better when I play compacts

You are in a difficult situation. Pushing your speakers to produce more bass is going to increase distortion and rob you of headroom. Your main problem is where you live. If you want to improve your bass you will require a new living situation. Having said that many digital preamp processors have very functional EQ capabilities. Examples are Trinnov, DEQX, Anthem and MiniDSP.

Thanks a lot for all your answers and suggestions. I am sure the speakers are wired correctly. I checked that several times.

Occasionally, when I am lazy, I play CDs using my old Sony CD CDP-CE415. It is also connected to the same amp and the speakers. The bass is much better when I play compacts. Maybe I need to get a decent preamp?

I am not expecting room-shaking bass. I just want to hear the bass when I play vinyl records.

I think I will connect the subwoofer for now until I find the best solution for my problem.

Before I make any investments I will try few things.

1. I will try to temporary swap the YAMAHA amp with my 28 years old Sony STR-D665 which has bass boost option. It sits in my basement and plays very well with my 20 something years old Sony SS-MF315 speakers.

2. I will try to use the Sony STR-D665 as a second amp for bi-amp option.

3. I will try to temporary swap Polk Audio speakers with my old Sony speakers to see if the problem with the speakers.

1. No

2. Probably not. Although, I’ve a sneaking suspicion that you are expecting room-shaking bass. Are you sure they are wired correctly? Out of phase connections will have poor bass. I think you need to connect the sub somehow and reappraise. Otherwise, better amplification is on the cards.

I would say you can invest in either the integrated amp or speakers and get a very big improvement.
 

I think you will likely get the biggest boost by upgrading the integrated amp. Reach as high as you can… maybe a used NAD or Rotel integrated amp. No extras. If you can get something that originally cost $3K… it will have a huge improvement in the current it can supply and take control of those woofers. Do not add an equalizer. It is symptomatic relief that doesn’t contribute to eliminating cause. 
 

Simple NAD and Rotel integrated amps (no extra functions… DACs. Streamer…etc) are built with sound quality in mind. Integrated amps will sound significantly better… and shockingly, by doubling the investment from <$1K (carefully chosen for sonic performance) to well over $20K. 

3. You’d need to get a second amp to bi-amp, preferably one with adjustable gain so you could vary the woofer output relative to mid/highs.

I personally doubt the Polks are worth it if they don’t have plenty of bass on their own as-is. It’s subjective however...if you otherwise flat out love their sound, maybe it’s worth the effort, but the term "The treble and mids are ok..." that you used speaks volumes.  The goal is to love your system, and that'll always be a struggle  if two thirds of the key ingredients are only "ok"....regardless if you get the bass output up to snuff.

2. GR-Research has a kit called the Brute that would come in close to budget ($1200+ s/h/tax), and should have plenty of slam, and likely better overall clarity and soundstage.

1. Not a big fan of EQ, and know diddly about DSP and other such options, so I’m not much help with that option.