Need some thoughts and/or suggestions: I am using a pair of KEF Q1s - luv the sound, so much more full than I ever expected - and the driver has such cone extension that the speaker box really vibrates. Now - I am assuming that the vibration really = the possibility of distortion ( or a smearing at higher volumes, tonal deformity, if that is different) and I am wondering if this is more controllable by: Adding more sound batting into the enclosure (thru the bass port) Weighting the speakers with a bag of lead shot (?) over the top of the driver/cabinet box ( the cabinet is not flat on top, so I can't use a brick or solid weight; I'm guessing the weight should be something moldable, so the lead shot in a bag is possible if I can figure a way to affix it to the cabinet...)
At the very least I guess you can look at this as a learning opportunity. You are right, if the whole speaker cabinet is moving that is dissipating energy you want coming out of the driver. So its robbing you of dynamics. Also if the speaker wasn't so loud you could hear the sound coming from the cabinet itself, which is smearing and robbing you of detail. This is why all the very best speakers are so thick, solid, and massive. Ideally you want no vibration anywhere at all except from the driver.
You can try several blobs of Blue Tack to hold the speakers in place. Or BDR Cones which are another better form of vibration control. Either way yes lead shot in a bag will add mass. Lead shot in a bag however is more damping than controlling. Only way to know is to try and hear how it sounds. This is why all these tweaks should be considered learning. Which is a great thing to do in its own right, especially if you keep it cheap, simple, and reversible.
G R Research No Rez. You will have to remove the drivers and cut to fit before installing. I have done a few pairs of speakers with it, It will tighten up the bass and reduce the resonating.
Predominantly driver distortion, and tweaking, treating the cabinet will do little to address it. Move on, go find much better, because imo this is a very compromised design and there are worlds of improvement available on used and new market.
To the OP; I mean no disdain in my comments. Here's the deal; I spent a LOT of time in earlier years working with inexpensive gear, desperate to make it sound all that. Sure, little improvements (which always seem to be big improvements without the experience of decades of system building) can be significant, but the gear is self-limiting; it will never be better than its inherent design.
Physical, operational limitations on designs cannot be escaped through tweaking, weights, etc. To get much better, save up, work toward much better. You are currently with this speaker on the low end of performance in HiFi. That is NOT a dismissive comment, just an analysis of performance. I was there, in that zone for several years. The spectrum of performance is HUGE. There are many, many big performance leaps to attain, and in reality the ladder of improvement is endless.
So, reach far higher! Make a change! Go for not just a fix, but a far superior sound. :)
To whom it may concern; I mean no disdain in my comments. Here's the deal; I spend a LOT of time around here watching people recommend spending money on upgrades. As if money grows on trees. Sure, big improvements can be had.... if you have big money to spend AND the time and inclination and ability to shop and compare. Even then however economic profit considerations will always limit design leaving lots of areas of improvement. These can be found all over the place, from speaker gaskets that seal but don't control vibrations to diodes and caps that are cheap and hold back performance. Because of all this the spectrum of performance manufacturers leave on the table is HUGE! There are many, many significant performance improvements that can be attained at little cost. The legs of the ladder are endless.
So, keep reaching! Make a change! Go for not just one tweak, but many, for a far superior sound. :)
with all due respect, that is a completely ignorant statement from one of the self proclaimed greatest speaker designers / builders of all time, who’s actually never done either 😀
Some boxes are square, some are rectangle, some are trapezoidal, some have extremely thick baffles, some are designed to resonate (harbeth) some are made out of mdf, others hdf, others carbon fiber, some have ports, others do not. Some boxes are incredibly well braced (look at ls50’s), some have curved front baffles, some have narrow front baffles, some speakers are designed to work well with wide front baffles, some use special glue to hold them together (dynaudio), some are lock mitered. Shoot, there are even differences with regards to the construction of cardboard boxes!
With regards to the original post and the original question, I’ve asked the same question before and was informed bracing, and cross bracing, the inside of the cabinet will yield the best results to combat the problem which you describe! Douglas makes a good point in that your time, money and effort might be better spent moving up in speakers. If you like the Kef q1’s, look for some kef xq1’s or anything in the kef xq series. I’ve had 2 pairs of xq(‘s and they are lovely speakers. Coincentric design with a super tweeter pulled straight from their reference series , curved boxes to reduce internal standing waves, and extremely well braced inside.
I think it was 1985 when i built a cabinet within a cabinet and air core crossover for a KEF 104 a/b customer all wired with Fulton....ran rings around the factory 104....... but not the Cantata...
OP have any appetite to do both ????? upgrade and tweak ?
Are the screws attaching the driver to the cabinet tight?
You say you love the sound of the KEF, so why try to change the sound? Stuffing any type of dampening material inside the loudspeaker will radically change the loudspeaker's sound. You'll be changing the internal volume which at the very least will change the bass response. I think I understand what you are trying to do with the lead shot, but why not just wrap it alternating layers of duct tape and bubble wrap. Either solution will only slightly mask the real issue inherent in the KEF's cabinet design. All box loudspeakers experience cabinet vibration and it's not necessarily a bad thing. If I were you, I would just continue to love the sound and stop worrying about the vibration.
There are three reasons enclosures dance, The cabinet is too light, the cabinet walls are not stiff enough and lastly the cabinet is not firmly fixed to the floor. #1 add mass. Put a granite slab on top of the speaker. You can get cut offs cheep at your local granite installer. #2 This one is tough. You would have to thicken the enclosure walls. At that point you may want to consider another speaker. #3 Put three spikes on the bottom of each speaker and jamb them right into the floor. This assumes your floor is reasonably solid. Good Luck.
I have monitors and subs I massed load these and truly focuses the details. i measured the dimensions went to a place that does granite countertops and picked out the granite I got Gee edges and just put a little blutac on top the granite adds a lot of mass and looks great I bought blue pearle from a Norway for $200 for the monitors, and $100 for each sub.
Just one quick point. And not that this is really going to help the OP unfortunately. But it should reinforce the lesson learned. "There is just simply "NO", substitution for mass". You may address the effects as much as you will. But after fighting that battle enough times. I am sure you will come to this conclusion as well.
Who needs a box? My speakers have no box. But gird all drivers with thick aircraft aluminium and you have something pretty spectacular. Sound and looks. check www.kyronaudio.com.au and look up the Gaia. For subwoofers look up the Mercury. Frequency response 0.5Hz to 60Hz (-3db). Music? Spectacular. 😁 🇦🇺
Hello, I like MilerC’s idea of the bluetac. Many times for computer speakers I have done this or added a cut mouse pad and put it under the speaker to clean up the sound. You can take a sandwich bag and fill with sand, shot, or copper BB’s and open up the speaker and put the full bag on the Inside bottom of the speaker. You would have to do this through the plate on the back or the driver on the front. Last you can put a piece of cut foam in the port to make a more sealed enclosure, but I am not a big fan because you are changing the frequency of the speaker and you will lose bass. You can try this by putting a sock in the bass port and see if you like this sound. If you do you can then go get foam and make it look better later.
I have maggie LRS speakers. Very low mass and lightweight. No box. Ribbon drivers. They don’t vibrate at all so I’m thinking the vibration spoken of here is an inherent feature of dynamic drivers in wooden boxes. My previous speakers were Polk Rtia 5 floorstanders which were heavy ( 50 lbs ea) made of real cherry wood (not crummy MDF) had curved sides, and internal boxes and bracing isolating the drivers from each other and vibrated almost not at all.They had excellent sound quality, but they can’t compete with maggies. When I listen to them now all I hear is a box. Amazing how I never noticed this until I started listening to the maggies. I had dynamic wooden box speakers for 40 years and never knew I was hearing a box until the box was gone!!! Not sure why maggies don’t vibrate. But the sound quality of them is like nothing I’ve ever heard before. Especially acoustic instruments. With loud distorted electric guitars, not so much. But that distortion is, IMO, an inherent feature of the instrument. The maggies make poor recordings sound awful. The Polks were much more forgiving. Everything sounded good on them.Also they really ROCKED, which the maggies don’t do. But I added a B&W 400 watt powered sub and that really helped out the maggies. They don’t have much response below about 60hz. But the mids and highs are probably the best you can get except for electrostatics which IMO have other drawbacks like they have to be plugged in and present a difficult load for most amps. My amp is a Schiit Vidar which works really good with the maggies. I agree with the others here who said instead of mickey mousing around trying to reduce the vibration you should either forget it and just enjoy the music or get better speakers.
amg56, I'm guessing you're in Australia, have you heard Mike Lenehan's ML5's up on the Gold Coast? stereo.net.au forums are full of members reviews of his loudspeakers. I have his ML2 Ultimates with the HD3 and 4mm steel plates lining the enclousure. I've found high praises on Kyron Audio. I might have go have a listen if I'm down in
Crow-eaters
territory again.
We don't know the motivation of the OP; whether to band-aid the speakers or dump them to move up. It would help if there was more direction given as to the ultimate goal.
I found the Lenehan ML1 Bookshelf Speaker I reviewed for Dagogo.com to be a wonderful product, well built, with good sound. Read my review of it at Dagogo.com
hshifi Thank you for your suggestions: will try bag of sand, internally on the speaker cabinet floor (easy to insert thru the port on the front) and the speakers came with a foam plugs and removable grills.
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