Isn’t everything in the signal path? I know when I turn the display lights out in my electronic equipment, amp meters, etc., I get a boost in SQ. Are these display lights unlike fuses? Are the fuses unlike the display lights?
Frank
Frank
Something For The Fuse Guys ...
There are fuses, and then, there are fuses.
I'm evaluating some prototype fuses that I received in the mail three days ago.
Over the past few years, I've used fuses from five different manufacturers. The last three were the Red, Black and Blue fuses from Synergistic Research. Each one incrementally improved the sound of my system. My favorite so far was the SR Blue.
The prototype fuses being evaluated presently raises the SQ beyond all of the others mentioned above. The major improvement to my ears is better tonal accuracy. Instruments and voices are more life-like. The noise is reduced allowing for a more solid 3-D presentation with the musicians more solidly presented on the sound stage. Overall, more information is fleshed out of CDs and LPs.
The manufacturer, the price and the name of the prototype fuses will come later. I don't have the information thus far. My understanding is, if all works out, the release date is to be mid-October.
Stay tuned ...
Frank
I'm evaluating some prototype fuses that I received in the mail three days ago.
Over the past few years, I've used fuses from five different manufacturers. The last three were the Red, Black and Blue fuses from Synergistic Research. Each one incrementally improved the sound of my system. My favorite so far was the SR Blue.
The prototype fuses being evaluated presently raises the SQ beyond all of the others mentioned above. The major improvement to my ears is better tonal accuracy. Instruments and voices are more life-like. The noise is reduced allowing for a more solid 3-D presentation with the musicians more solidly presented on the sound stage. Overall, more information is fleshed out of CDs and LPs.
The manufacturer, the price and the name of the prototype fuses will come later. I don't have the information thus far. My understanding is, if all works out, the release date is to be mid-October.
Stay tuned ...
Frank
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Regarding "checking fuse direction yourself," I suggested that a couple of posts ago (Kaitty’s reading skills are clearly hindered by the constant skull pressure from his tinfoil hat) and highly recommend doing exactly that...I also agree that fuse direction differences aren’t small...they’re simply non existent. I never use speaker cables other than in the recommended direction as I think wire directionality in something that carries all of the signal is relevant (although nobody seems to be able to respond to the situation I mentioned regarding all those pesky wires in components assembled with no regard to their directionality...chaos, utter chaos, and yet somehow sound gets out! Astonishing!)...same goes for interconnects...fuses aren’t generally in the signal path AT ALL and work swimmingly in either direction, a wonderful thing...it’s like magic... |
I totally agree with the previous post with the exception of one thing. The sonic difference in fuse direction isn’t a small one. My apologies to anyone who thinks so. Don’t believe Me? Try switching the direction of any stock, run of the mill fuse anywhere in the system. Of course, it is possible to psych yourself out. 😬 |
Once a system reaches a certain level of refinement, one can discern the smallest changes in sound reproduction. This would include the direction of fuses. The question is ... how do we attain that level of refinement? It has all been laid out in this forum, and in the "Member Review" forum over the past few years. Those who have taken heed can hear the difference. Those who haven’t ... well?? Frank |
wolf_garcia Fuse directionality is a myth...prove that to yourself by reversing the fuse in any component and note that the sound doesn’t change one iota, regardless of the hyperbole and silly claims otherwise. >>>>It looks like it’s you against the 100,00 who can hear fuse directionality, big guy. Have you tried candling your ears? 🕯 |
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Fuse directionality is a myth...prove that to yourself by reversing the fuse in any component and note that the sound doesn't change one iota, regardless of the hyperbole and silly claims otherwise. Also it bears mentioning (again) that the little wires and circuit board traces aren't installed with any thought of their directionality, thus rendering the tiny fuse wire's directionality utterly irrelevant. One may ask, "why do so many claim unmistakable sonic attributes due to Special Fuses?" Because they can, and subjective opinion, expectation bias, or mythology based belief is by it's nature difficult to dislodge from the faithful, or anybody motivated by commercial incentive over objective logic. |
It’s ironic that such a comment would come from someone who’s the poster boy for audiophiles stuck in the 80s. Some folks don’t learn no matter how many times I repeat it. A little bit of a re-tar-da-shun, I suspect. No biggie. if you don’t learn from history you’re bound to make the same mistakes again. - Old audiophile axiom |
mitch2 Geoff, you are learning...I am glad you agree that any differences in sound likely result from the improved contact achieved by removing the replacing the fuses, and not something silly like minuscule differences in directional resistance....🤔 >>>>>Geez, Louise! That makes absolutely no sense. No matter how many times you take the fuse out and reinsert it in the opposite direction the sound will always be better when the fuse is in the correct direction. It’s predictable and it’s repeatable and transferable. You’ve heard of the scientific method, right? The fuse holder has nothing to do with it. Hel-loo! It’s just another example of silly non-believers grasping at straws. No offense to you or my pal, Al. Hey, that Rhymes! 😬 |
oregonpapa OP So, there’s the wire extrusion factor (which no one has commented on yet), and now we have cryogenic treatment. How many more factors could affect the "sound" of different fuses? How about the use of different materials like graphene, beeswax ... etc? >>>>>Oh, geez, we’ve covered all that before. Hel-loo! Are you channeling Wolfman? |
Mitch, you’re right, I am learning. Unlike the non-believers who, if I can be so bold, all seem to suffer the same learning disorder. If you’d been following the fuse saga closely you would have seen that resistance is not the root cause of directionality, it’s only a symptom. That’s the point HiFi Tuning was making. The root cause of directionality is something we haven’t figured out yet, even though I’ve offered a prize to anyone who can. So far, there is not much consensus on what the signal even is. That’s life in the fast lane. |
@geoffkait I would be the last person to claim that relatively large differences in sound exhibited by fuses are due entirely to the very small differences in resistance.Geoff, you are learning...I am glad you agree that any differences in sound likely result from the improved contact achieved by removing the replacing the fuses, and not something silly like minuscule differences in directional resistance....🤔 @uberwaltz We can offer further discounts on bags. Our rounded Lake Michigan sand grains are way more comfortable than laying on Florida coral and mollusk shell fragments. We offer free hand-delivery between December and March. ✈️ |
The more important aspect of the very small differences in resistance is that the direction exhibiting the lower resistance is always (rpt always) the direction that sounds best. I would be the last person to claim that relatively large differences in sound exhibited by fuses are due entirely to the very small differences in resistance. In fact, this very point is stated in the HiFi Tuning data sheets. Hel-loo! To make matters even more irritating to the non-believers, as I’ve pointed on at least one occasion — the percentage of measured differences in resistance stated by HiFi Tuning are incorrect. As I recall 5% is the stated difference. In fact, percentages are much lower. Do the math. However the lower resistance is in the direction of best sound. |
the humble... @geoffkait 😛 Recall the data sheets from HiFi Tuning showed definite differences among various fuses for measured resistance. And the data sheets showed reduction in resistance for the same fuse following cryogenic treatment. 🥶 All fuses, including bog standard commercial fuses showed improved resistance values after cryogenic treatment. AND all fuses showed differences in resistance according to direction in the circuit 🔛All true however, in the interest of full disclosure, the magnitude of the total resistance is minuscule relative to the resistance of the associated wire in power cords, power supplies, etc. etc.....sort of like saying that adding a rounded grain of sand to the other sand below your beach blanket will noticeably improve your day at the beach. BTW, we are offering half-off pricing on rounded grains of sand this week, only $75. |
AhHa ... I thought so. Thank you, Mr. Humble, for that. So, there's the wire extrusion factor (which no one has commented on yet), and now we have cryogenic treatment. How many more factors could affect the "sound" of different fuses? How about the use of different materials like graphene, beeswax ... etc? Frank |
Yeah, it’s not obvious how much resistance a one-inch long wire could possibly have compared to all the wire in the power cord plus the internal wiring of the component. 😛 Recall the data sheets from HiFi Tuning showed definite differences among various fuses for measured resistance. And the data sheets showed reduction in resistance for the same fuse following cryogenic treatment. 🥶 All fuses, including bog standard commercial fuses showed improved resistance values after cryogenic treatment. AND all fuses showed differences in resistance according to direction in the circuit 🔛 Of course, the elephant in the room is how external forces like vibration and RF affect the signal through the fuse which is itself an electromagnetic wave. - Your humble narrator and theoretical physicist |
With these prototype fuses, I'm able to turn the volume knob down to a considerably lower setting and still get the same volume out of the system as before. Could some fuses be more efficient than others? Any science-minded folks want to chime in on that? And by the way, the system is sounding fantastic. Frank |
Geoff, go back to any or all of the fuse threads that I participated in and it should easily jog your memory. And, do you really think I was name calling? Meh. And your cheap shot with the comment on Al shows you to be having, what, a particularly bad day? That was low, even for you. All the best, Nonoise |
Geoff, your troll skirt is showing. I enjoy your banter but when to proclaim ignorance on something that's been repeatedly debated and to say anyone said that you said it, when no one did, is just deflecting, using the good 'ol red herring approach. And for your reasons as to why all fuses don't sound the same, I don't know of anyone who've actually heard them who would disagree. In fact, I've argued those points enough times to be weary of the subject. All the best, Nonoise |
I have no idea what the “it’s only a sacrificial device” argument even means. The fuse obviously prevents high current from going any further, regardless of why the high current is there. It’s irrelevant to the fuse debate how the high current got there. There are really only a few bones of contention for fuses. Allow me to quickly summarize them. Fuses do not all sound the same Aftermarket fuses as a general rule sound better than stock fuses There are easily identifiable physical and electrical reasons why some fuses are audibly superior to stock off-the-shelf fuses All Fuses are directional in the sense they sound better in one direction than the other In fact, it’s unnecessary to know why fuses are directional. So the whole argument about molecules and atoms is actually irrelevant. We already know all wire is directional. And have known for 25 years. I use the word we editorially. 😬 |
Even though what Al pointed out may be true, and probably is true, it actually has no real bearing on the case. You might as well say the sky is blue. If what was said is true, then it would have significant bearing on the case. Up until now, all naysayers have used the "it's only a sacrificial device" argument, which is not the case. If I remember correctly, even @auxinput pointed out something similar which was quickly and conveniently glossed over in past threads. All the best, Nonoise |
I would like for one of our professional metallurgist members to chime in here and share with us any information they may have about the way metal is extruded during the manufacture of wire, and how that extrusion would affect the direction of molecules, and subsequently the directionality of said wire. Frank |
Even though what Al pointed out may be true, and probably is true, it actually has no real bearing on the case. You might as well say the sky is blue. I could also point out that oregonpapa’s statement that all aftermarket fuses are directional is only a partial truth. Since all fuses -including stock off the shelf fuses - are directional. And all wire is directional - e.g., wire in all cables, interconnects, power cords, HDMI cables, Ethernet cables, transformers, capacitors, etc. Cheers everybody! |
Many thanks, Al, for your contribution to this thread. As you've stated (and if I properly understand), the purpose of the fuse is not so much as to protect from AC surges incoming and prior to the fuse, as some here have said. It's main purpose is to keep amp processes after the fuse from drawing too much current, making the fuse an integral part of the operation of the amp and therefore having more of a direct bearing on the sound, though it's exact reason as to why cannot be readily explained. It just does. All the best, Nonoise |
I have chosen not to participate in this thread because I've said all that I have to say on the subject in numerous fuse-related threads in the past. However I just want to state a point of information: Posts that have been made by at least three different members appear to imply that the purpose of an AC mains fuse in a component is to provide protection against surges in the incoming AC. While it is possible that an AC mains fuse might do that under some circumstances, that is not its intended purpose. Its intended purpose is to blow if a fault within the component causes it to draw excessive AC current. Thereby preventing **additional** damage to the component that may otherwise occur, as well as preventing the possibility of the component overheating or even bursting into flames as a result of the excessive current being drawn. Regards, -- Al |
Directional? I put them into four different components. I reversed the one in the line-stage ... and it sounded better. By "better," I mean more well focused. Same as all of the other aftermarket fuses. Placed the wrong way, the sound is slightly defused (no pun intended), like the system is out of phase. Placed in the proper direction, things just seem to snap into place. I know ... I know .. Impossible, right? Frank |
