So you think wire conductors in cables are directional? Think again...
Here is a very relevant discussion among physicists about the directionality...the way signal and electrons should flow... based on conductor orientation. Some esoteric, high-end manufacturers say they listen to each conductor to see which way the signal should flow for the best audio quality.
Read this discussion. Will it make you rethink what you’re being told and sold?
LOL...We ALL practice psychology everyday. Professional, licensed psychologists are just like every other paid profession. Some are very good...Some are not, and shouldn’t be in the profession...because they're in it simply for the money, and to practice control of the needy. Just like some cable manufacturers.
Some of those very good psychologists you seem to have "scientifically" qualified with that statement would have a field day with you. Maybe even write a thesis on their time interviewing you.
But wait, would you demand a double blind interview, with you and a ringer behind a curtain, speaking through some form of Autotune to mask your voices so as to sound the same?
All the best, Nonoise
You love to make assumptions and statements that make zero sense.
Some psychologists are far more competent than others. You think that's incorrect? Or are ALL licensed professionals of the same level of capability and intelligence?
Then forgot all the part of my post about cables manufacturers and psychologist.... i can aknowledge when i am wrong easily and i am wrong here .... I react to speedily to your rant....😊
Why insulting someone who give a coherent point like the past poster pointing to the fact that many people are perceiving this direction in cable?
Insults and arrogance are not good points in a debate...
Then forgot all the part of my post about cables manufacturers and psychologist....
Why insulting someone who give a coherent point like many people experience is perceiving this direction in cable?
There are quite a few commenters in this thread that didn’t pay attention to the question/idea/premise of my thread on conductor directionality. It was either avoided, or the subject changed to how the cable is terminated, or have been led down the primrose path by the cable manufacturer’s "claims" that the conductor is directional by the way the wire was drawn.
It’s just not possible...especially at audio frequencies.
You love to make assumptions and statements that make zero sense.
Some psychologists are far more competent than others. You think that's incorrect? Or are ALL licensed professionals of the same level of capability and intelligence?
You still don't get it. That, and you're starting to remind me of some homeless guy I blew off today. Kind of felt sorry for him afterwards. Best to not talk to you anymore.
nonoise7,066 posts05-19-2021 10:09pmYou still don't get it. That, and you're starting to remind me of some homeless guy I blew off today. Kind of felt sorry for him afterwards. Best to not talk to you anymore.
nonoise7,066 posts05-19-2021 10:09pmYou still don't get it. That, and you're starting to remind me of some homeless guy I blew off today. Kind of felt sorry for him afterwards. Best to not talk to you anymore.
All the best, Nonoise
How you treat your fellow humans, whether homeless or filthy rich, says quite a bit about your character. Since you simply chose to "blow off" the homeless guy, rather than give him a hand up...tells me all I need to know about you.
OP it speaks to anyone’s character when people "TALK". Because I converse with someone is not because I have something to offer or visa versa. It could just be out of mutual courtesy between two human beings in passing.
While being homeless can be a burden to some it is the ONLY way others will live. Being homeless is a temporary situation ANYWHERE in the United States, including all the U.S Territories.
The U.S. is a place where if you choose to be homeless or CHOOSE to be a billionaire, YOU or I have a choice none the less.
What is a "hand up"? A hand out? What’s a hand out? What YOU want to give. That’s right.. What does anyone need at anytime?
99.9% of the people wouldn’t have given a homeless guy a second look but somehow YOU would have changed his world had YOU been there?
I admire your intent if that is what it truly is. You would invite the guy home and give him a bath, feed him, washed his feet, clothed him in the finest duds in town and called him brother? Take him to his next NA/AA meeting and made sure HE was ok because you were looking out for YOU, so you could look out for HIM... Really, are you that person?
You’re a better man than me or are you a mere man? I would have HAD to "AT LEAST" known the guy from somewhere in my past. Yup better man than me.. Angels walk amongst us. I’ve spoken to one a time or two..
BUT I know which direction my cable point, and there is a reason for it.
Just like this thread, we all have choices and it’s not up to others to make or decide for us. Either you know what you know or you don’t. Pretty simple.. BUT I’m just a common man that happens to be a retired heavy equipment mechanic. That and 5.00 dollars will get me a cup of coffee. That's a fact if I leave a 25 cent tip..
@oldhvymec, Thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy of his statement.
Having to twice quote me, first with a "I'm rubber, you're glue" childish retort, and then to be so patently opportunistic and hide behind a holier than thou comeback (probably thought of it right after posting his first) speaks volumes to his character.
That homeless guy I blew off was just a casually dressed, middle aged moocher, hanging around the gas station. Not anything like the ones I see on my morning walks, looking like they belong in an institution. Too well dressed to actually sleep on the sidewalk, but haggardly looking to suggest he likes his vices.
Then we have to deal with someone, here, who's losing an argument and just can't move on.
I presented an honest query as discussed by physicists. Many commenters twisted the meaning of said query...you being one of them...and in pretty short order, the whole thing has turned into farce.
Apparently asking people their views on something that is seemingly controversial gets interpreted as trolling. And BTW...you're one of the facilitators of denying the science...and when you personally don't like my comments, you simply delete my posts.
And...did you ever answer my query...or just avoid the subject due to conflicts of interest?
Speakermaster, you actually have it right. Engineers are almost always blinded by equations. Engineers always hide behind equations when they don't understand the "unknown".
It comes down to how the molecules pack when extruded. I had a discussion with a cable manufacturer on how his cables sounded so much better than the much more expensive ones they were replacing. We had a great discussion. He said he had trouble believing it because he was a physicist and the equations did not explain this, but the directionality of the wire was an observed, repeatable characteristic.
He hired a material scientist. The material scientist found out the packing of copper molecules when it was extruded created a definite difference in inductance. There were a couple other things like copper purity and b-field affect based on the casing.
I was trained as a physical chemist myself, and used material scientists to help me design polymer networks for coatings and other esoteric stuff like that.
this is a simple example on how molecular packing works. The effect of packing will have a very significant impact on final properties.
Engineers work with the known. Scientists work with the unknown. I have worked in both fields. The physics equations that describe sound are not be all, end all. And frankly, they do not describe the fine details of music well. The equations are not necessarily correct.
Now if you have total faith in your equations (and won't trust your ears), think of this. Newton was the most brilliant scientist of the last 500 years. His three laws of physics were probably the greatest scientific breakthrough ever. Kepler built on Newton's work and created equations to predict the motion of the planets. They worked on all the planets--except Mercury. Why? Well, the equations did not take into account of the spacetime warpage between the sun and Mercury. You need to use Einstein's relativistic equations since the mass differences between the sun and Mercury create spacetime warpage significant enough that Newton's equations (thereby Kepler's) do not account for, therefore will not describe the observations.
This is a great example where the accepted equations worked in many situations--but not all. Do not be blinded by science. It is not perfect!
It is a common fallacy that engineers fall into. They think if the observations conflict with the equations, the observations must be wrong. I suppose it is because the equations can work so well for so many things, and engineers spend so much time doing the known, that they can have trouble with the unknown.
Minorl934's list (among others, I am singling this post out because it was the last post to give a definitive list from physics) does not talk about molecular packing variants in his equation list. This is what happens when your are "blinded by science" and assume that what you know is all there is.
There are many other aspects of materials science that can affect sound quality of wires that are not handled by the classic physics equations.
Speakermaster, you actually have it right. Engineers are almost always blinded by equations. Engineers always hide behind equations when they don't understand the "unknown".
As a scientist can you tell us how science would go about creating test where we can " trust our ears"?
How do you do to be always beside the point of any post speaking about sound human experience even coming from a scientist?
Trusting our own ears to reach music sound experience is the crux of the matter.... Trusting his own ears dont means negation of science facts, it means only that technological measures SERVE the ears consciious experience...
Anyway science is NOT technology..... Engineering is NOT psychoacoustic science....They are correlated without being reducible to one another...
Technology goal is always related to the way we isolate a PART of the WHOLE to control it in an EXTERNAL way.... it is about efficient power....A piece of technology, a tool, must be isolated to be constructed and used properly....Even a hammer...
Science goal is always related to the way the isolated part is connected and inserted in this WHOLE, or how the part reflect internally or participate to this whole in itself.... It is about knowledge and consciousness not power....
Sometimes along the way men must choose between power and knowledge.... Sometimes we cannot keep the cake and eat it....Technology much be controlled by
We are at this moment in history....
Technology without science is death.....But much money is going to be made in the long agony for some....
He’s stuck on physics from 500 years ago. That’s all I need to know. His broadbrushing of engineers is also just plain wrong, ignorant and flat out dumb to make such definitive statements.
How do you do to be always beside the point of any post speaking about sound human experience even coming from a scientist?
Because no scientist worth a damn is going to accept anyone's word for their personal experience without testing it especially if they're taking anecdotal claims and extrapolating them to be quantified evidence.
It’s pretty simple , except for little Andy, if you claim to hear differences in cables based on direction, prove it, and proof isn't me and my buddies tried last weekend. It needs to be a properly controlled blind test.
All over the country, everyday, electricians run copper wire from panel box to receptacle or light fixture. If one day an electrician yanked the wire out going to a light fixture turned it around and proclaimed 'wow that lights brighter', I think it's safe to say all the other electricians are going to want more than one guys word. Yet here it's backwards world, I hear veils lifted and soundstages widen, How? I reversed a wire. Well, that's all the proof i need.
Before the advent of testing equipment, that's how the world ran, and pretty well too. Lots of science laid down to go by and all without a scope, monitor, or gauge.
Yeah, that's how they built the Pyramids a nearsighted guy on a sand dune saying , "no move that block a little to the right". We don't need no stinking measuring devices or levers.
nonoise7,074 posts05-21-2021 2:08pmBefore the advent of testing equipment, that's how the world ran, and pretty well too. Lots of science laid down to go by and all without a scope, monitor, or gauge.
He’s stuck on physics from 500 years ago. That’s all I need to know. His broadbrushing of engineers is also just plain wrong, ignorant and flat out dumb to make such definitive statements.
I apologized yesterday to you by distorting one of your post about some/all psychologists.... And you were right, sometimes we react not so cleverly than what we think...
I think your answer of this post is way more a distortion than mine was about yours...
I expect your mischaracterization like mine is an accident...
This scientist DOES NOT stick to the newtonian paradign in his post.... Suggesting the opposite is not faithful to his post...
Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.
I’m not saying to measure anything. Just don’t cheat and use your eyes when trying to judge what you’re hearing. That’s all.
djones apparently doesn’t know how the brain functions in term of localizing a sound source. Both eyes and ears are needed for the brain to process and localize where the sound is coming from.
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