Should repaired equipment be stated in the ad??

It's always best to be honest about repairs.

I believe that is not so important what I think but rather what possible buyer might think. I don't want anybody to feel bad after purchasing things from me, so I would reveal what I know.

If I go by what I think then we enter dangerous territory - one might sell house that was rebuilt after big fire without disclosing it because it has, in his opinion, even greater value.

hi Kijanki, that's not what I said. If you read statement once more - I said

if a component was recently serviced by the manufacturer or reputable tech, it may indeed have higher value (eg, an older amplifier newly recap'd) than one that is original/never serviced.

read that it MAY have, not DOES have

So to answer your question, I would pay more for a unit that has been repaired, than for one that is broken. And, I *may* pay more for one that has been recently serviced (ie checked out, biased, etc) by the manufacturer than for one that has not been checked out in years by a qualified tech, especially if the alternative units available are in unknown, unverified condition. Example: a few years ago I did indeed pay slightly better than market price for a Bedini 100.100 power amp that had been serviced and recapped by Bedini 2 years previous. This is a 1987 vintage amp. In this case the seller did advertise the service. Likewise I paid more for my Electron Kinetics Eagle 2C amp than I did for my Eagle 2A - the difference between them being that the 2C had undergone a refurbish/upgrade. I paid more than 2 times as much for it, and would do it again.

So, as I said, I think it depends on the equipment.

It can be a plus but it depends on who does the work. ARC still services everything they have ever made and any piece of their used gear you send to them will come back sounding as good as it ever did unless they tell you ahead of time that it can't. VPI, Well Tempered and MIT pretty much the same in my experience. Likewise Vandersteen and Thiel, although it's not always worth repairing speakers.

For an aftermarket repair shop, by far the best I've encountered for electronics is Stereo Surgeons in Hartford, CT.

Then there are vintage electronics: I happen to have a Hickock 539C Tube Tester that was repaired and calibrated by Chris Haedt. Documenting his having worked on it would greatly increase its sale value today.

Bdgregory - So you would really select and pay more (worth more to you) for the repaired unit (everything else being equal). Are you serious?

Or maybe when you find out that you bought repaired unit you should call seller and thank him for that (higher value)?

According to this one should advertise repairs done to the unit since they increased its value. We don't have problem anymore.

Can you honestly say that you would buy repaired one of two identical units sold for the same amount on Audiogon??

I think it depends on the equipment in question. If it's a 1 or 2 year old component, very high end, I may be hesitant, especially if it wasn't the factory performing the service, or it was anything but a minor fix.

I'm somewhat of a bottom feeder and have purchased fairly old gear. (eg my B&K M200 amps - I had 8 of them at one time) I wasn't as concerned about repairs as I was current condition. And frankly when you're buying something from a second or third owner you can't truly know the repair record, although the fact it's not an original owner item will discount the value anyway. Further, if a component was recently serviced by the manufacturer or reputable tech, it may indeed have higher value (eg, an older amplifier newly recap'd) than one that is original/never serviced.

In any event, IMO, if repair record is important to you as a buyer, you should ask, and not expect it to be disclosed in the ad; and if you're a seller and are asked about the repair record, A'gon's etiquette policy should oblige you to answer honestly, accurately, and completely. (though the policy below may not be worded strongly enough)

Expected Etiquette:
All Audiogon members are expected to conduct themselves in an honest and civil manner.

That would be ideal, and I would personally feel ethically bound to do so. However, caveat emptor is applicable here. When you buy used you are getting the product for less than you could buying new. The risk of buying a repaired item or a defective item is part of that deal. You are not getting a dealer warranty and, in most cases, you are not going to get a transferable manufacturer's warranty. As with anything, there are pros and cons. I would not be surprised if someone sold a used item that had been repaired without disclosing the repair. There are of course reasons other than cost savings for buying used rather than new, such as buying vintage items that are no longer available. Same risk benefit ideas though.

Serviced or repaired, I don't know,
But I'll take a Threshold amp upgraded by Jon Solderbreg.
I also prefer a car with full service records!

People don't reveal repairs anticipating that somebody might be afraid of buying repaired unit. This person would buy something that has, what he considers, a hidden defect (loss of value in his opinion). The fact that they don't know about it doesn't change that they bought substandard (in their opinion) product. Therefore I would fully reveal nature of the repair and current condition and even sell for less if I have to (honesty costs).

There is a lot of factory refurbished stuff sold on internet with big discount. I believe that selling factory refurbished units as brand new is illegal but, according to many of you, factory repair doesn't change the value.

Can you honestly say that you would buy repaired one of two identical units sold for the same amount on Audiogon??
(everything else being equal). One person stated that repaired unit is even better - would he pay more? Seriously?

I would feel the same about a car.

I agree with Macrojack in that most people on this forum are overly picking about equipment purchased here. It is "used" which means just that! You can't expect it to be like new. Unfortunately, some folks just don't get that.
As was stated when you buy something used, you're usually getting it 40% off of retail. If you want all this piece of mind and guarantees, then buy it new!! When you buy used you're taking a chance, bottom line.
My rule of thumb is manufacturer reputation and service record.(example: audio research equipment is known to be built like a tank and has a very good service reputation) I ask for serial number and then contact the manufacturer to see if the piece has ever been in for servicing. That's all you can do and even that is not 100% foolproof because if the piece was repaired by someone other than the manufacturer, you still want know, unless the person divulges it. If they don't, then that's the chance you take.

If it's repaired, there's nothing broken. What is there to report?

I generally agree with this. I think it's expecting a lot to have a policy of disclosure in the ad (and it's unrealistic to expect it to be followed). That said I think a request for service history (ie during negotiations) should be responded to completely and honestly. If you think it's not full/honest disclosure walk away (btw, A'gon DOES have a policy on this). Your description of the terse response you received is familiar to me - when I think someone is not answering the question asked I walk, unless I decide I'm willing to take a risk on a deal too compelling to pass on.

Like I pointed out above, there is not necessarily a negative stigma attached to service history. Vintage equipment needs caps replaced, tuners need re-alignment, old tube gear often requires cleaning of oxidation and can benefit from new wire.
Do you consider these to be repairs or maintenance? And what about mods? I see many ads crowing about mods having been done.
If it was factory R&R what is the problem? Items that didn't get caught by QC the first time through are returned to the factory for individual attention upon failure. These, I suspect, leave the factory better than new having received individual scrutiny.

Why so anal everybody? I buy used stuff aware that it is as likely to fail as new gear. The difference is that I bought it for hundreds or even thousands less than the original price. That leaves a lot of room for repair dollars in the unlikely event that they are needed.

Another point I might make is that most sellers on this site are overly concerned about their reputation and will bend over backwards to accommodate an unhappy buyer. As in any other area of transaction, you will find a degree of risk, but it seems that many of you are over-reacting to a problem you haven't even experienced.

Remember that you are doing this for fun. You have enough other things to worry about, don't you?

Well said Chadnliz .

I cant believe so many dont think it matters if a unit has had a major repair......do you feel the same about a car?

Tvad
but I suggest disclosing full details of any repair or service in private emails after an initial inquiry has been made.

I can go along with that, but I did ask in a private email and was told " I have tried to list everything about these in the ad"
That statement turned out to be dishonest as I found out later on the Audiogon forum's.

So even disclosing that in private emails will only work if the person is honest. In my opinion, If they don't put it in the ad they probably wont tell you in a private email either. At least in my case they didn't.

Echo Waveman.....

I would tell everything I know about the equipment regardless of the consequences just for peace of mind. Some people have an easier time sleeping at night. The Golden Rule rules. Dan

A repaired piece of equipment should be worth more because it will likely not need to repaired again for a while more than one that hasn't been serviced, as Macro stated so eloquently.

Should I sell my car, I would not hide the number of miles or the vechicle, nor would I if the stereo gear was repaired. Besides, for some, repaired gear, rated properly may have a higher value. In that there may be less of a problem in the future, and the gear may last that much longer for the new owner.

I have found that there is so much anxiety about a miniscule scratch that if you said something was blown and fixed that you would have a tougher time selling . Many see repairs as a sign of abuse but it is not always the case.To the finicky it is a sign for a potential flaw.
To do otherwise, however is just to dishonest for me having been on the buyers end I appreciate an open seller. I will trust that person more than the guy who has used equipment that he always rates a 10 or at least 9.
As stated above a -non lemon- one time problem, resulting in a trip to the factory authorized repair center will usually end up as a full overhaul. The amp or other components usually sounds better than ever.
With speakers it's bit murky if you get a pair with one driver replaced there is asymetry due to break-in.
Most people don't reveal issues but I try to be as upfront as possible.
It is very easy for me ! I just keep everything I buy. The house is a bit overstuffed right now so a purging is in the works. The whole truth and nothing but!

Honesty is the best policy. Hiding the repair is not disclosing all the truth. Do unto others.................

Maybe we need something like Vehix.com where all repair shops report repairs done. Just put in make, model number and serial number and you get a complete fictional, fabricated reassuring history. Or you get a dirty laundry list of replaced resistors and caps and tubes and face plates.

I just got my vintage KT 917 tuner back from Stereo Surgeons complete with before and after specifications and a professional evaluation. If I were to offer it for sale, I would not attempt to conceal this info. In fact, I would consider it a selling point.

Buying something that is still supported by the manufacturer seems a sensible precaution when buying high priced second hand audio items, IMHO.

Otherwise, I'd suggest to go for "bargains" only and accept that there is a high degree of risk - especially as audio users damage things quite often (a blown tweeter, a fried amp or a bent stylus being par for the course for anyone serious at this hobby...in fact most loud house parties will usually blow a domestic speaker, as they just aren't up to that kind of abuse)

I asked a seller recently is there was anything I should know about on a item he was selling and his response was " I have tried to list everything about these in the ad"

When I was searching the forums I saw a thread he started asking how to get this particular item fix and who could fix it " Long story, but I fried the upper mid left channel on my pair " stupid error " occurred.

I think this should have been in his ad,if not he should have at least disclosed this to me when I emailed and asked "is there was anything I should now about"

Just my opinion that's why I am curious what others think.
Thanks

If it's repaired, there's nothing broken. What is there to report?

If it is currently broken or defective, this should be reflected in the ad and in the Audiogon rating so that the purchaser can make an informed decision.

In general, I would agree with you. (Although, as long as they discuss it with you before purchasing the unit, I don't think it HAS to be in the ad itself.)

(Also, I would be more forgiving of a lack of such an admission if the work was done by the manufacturer. Replacing something small that fails, such as a capacitor or a resistor is not that big a deal, IMHO, especially if done by the manufacturer.)

I would also think that any upgrades to the unit should be mentioned as well, and especially if they were not done by the manufacturer.

My two cents worth.

I believe most people won't for fear of not selling it but sometimes if a component is older it may give some peace of mind to the buyer that it's been recently serviced.

I sold an amp a while back and it worked to my advantage that I stated that I had replaced several resistors and caps when I retubed it.

I think it is the ethical thing to do but let's face it, used electronics are a lot like used cars.