Should I steer clear of class D amps


I’m finally upgrading my amp. I currently have an Onkyo TXNR 636 which has served very well but it’s now the weakest component in my system.

I’ve a budget of up to £1200-£1300 and been looking at the NAD C3050.

I was initially drawn to the NAD C3050 when I saw the VU meters but these are not deal breakers if I can get a much better amp without them, but I really do like them. I spoke with a dealer and he mentioned all NAD amplifiers are now class D and that’s now where I’m stuck procrastinating my purchase. My understanding was class D never really took off, despite the power efficiency due to the HF noise caused by the PWM. Times change things improve but I can’t find much about how they have mitigated this, in fact an article in EETimes refers to how the tests performed for THD etc are quite irrelevant in a digital amp and quoted figures may be very different in real life. In essence, the way of testing makes them look better than they are. This may be true but do they sound good? We all know vinyl is technically an inferior medium but I certainly prefer it’s sound.

I am listening to classic/ heavy rock and a mixture of lossless streaming from a NAS into a Cambridge Audio CNX V2 and vinyl off a Technics 1500C with a Pro-Ject DS phono stage all into monitor audio bronze 5s. 
 

I need a new amp. I need slapping out of my indecision but it’s not an insignificant amount of £££ and I want to get it right. Should I stick with AB ? My electric bill can’t withstand class A or valve regardless of sound quality. 

Also what’s the thoughts on NAD in general, I’m my youth they were good amps, but then so were Pioneer. 
 

nosleeptilldownload

I bought a ClassD amp mainly because I wanted an amp I could lift. I was dubious at first but took the plunge and got a Nord Purifi dual mono Class D with Spargo op amps putting out 250wpc. I got a huge surprise when it had burned in for about 100 hours. It was dynamic, open with a solid bass and transparent without glare. My conclusion was that it was as good if not better than any amp I have owned including some ARC, Rogue, EAR and Krell models. As you seem to be in the Uk call Colin North the CEO at Nord Acoustics. He is knowledgeable and easy to talk to and has models well within your price range. Ignore the Class D naysayers on this forum and try Class D for yourself.

From posters above it sounds kind of like if it is too good to be true, then Class D may fall in that category.

 

I think in this case "too good to be true" would be if Class D was hyped as the best sounding amplifiers always. None of us who think that the current crop of Class D amps are very competitive say that. Personally I just feel they’ve reached a level of maturity in the performance that it’s no longer possible to distinguish them as anything other than amplifiers.

If you try to prejudge them by class you’ll do yourself a disservice. As I pointed out, I have had and have left Class D amps. Not because of the class but because of the amp.

What?

Class D" always sounded a bit like snake oil to me. The data seems to show it.

 Unfortunately, as mentioned by @ghdprentice"everyone realized they just didn’t sound that good", including me

out of context?

I've no familiarity with current NAD products. Those I owned were excellent values. "Class D" always sounded a bit like snake oil to me. The data seems to show it.

As to tubes sucking up power, I recently installed a vintage Sophia EL 34-based amp (35/channel) and noticed no change in my electric bill. Remember to trn off the exhaust fan when you leave the bathroom.

Had I the $ I'd have bought this: https://www.primaluna-usa.com/primaluna-evo-100-tube-power-amplifier or, since I know an excellent tech, this: https://www.amazon.com/Willsenton-R8-Integrated-Amplifier-Headphone/dp/B08133TH98/ref=sr_1_3?hvadid=604661045408&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9007539&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5062205048887958487&hvtargid=kwd-1326307720789&hydadcr=14359_13354852&keywords=willsenton+r8+tube+amplifier&qid=1687221053&sr=8-3&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.765d4786-5719-48b9-b588-eab9385652d5

 

From posters above it sounds kind of like if it is too good to be true, then Class D may fall in that category.

Do not fear Class D, they are not like the days of yore when D sounded harsh and bright. Some really good stuff out there and as @ghdprentice did you need to hear them in your system. I love the look of the 3050LE but I am yet to hear one.

 

I've been using a Pass X250.8 and recently XA30.8 over the last likely 8 years or so at this point.  I really liked both amps.

Recently I wanted to try a Class D GaNFET amp and tried the Atma-Sphere Class D monos.  I've had them for about a year and ended up selling my XA30.8 for them.  They have a very 'Pass Like' sound, midrange centric, natural tone, a hint of warmth, no fatigue, great imaging, etc...   I was amazed how similar they sounded to my Pass amp.   I think they do some things better and I also liked a few things better with my Pass amp, but in the end I found them similar and when you throw in they do not even get warm, weight like 14 pounds, I was happy to keep them.     

If you have not heard the latest Class D offerings, it is worth a listen at least.   You still may not like them, but after owning two others over the last 10 years (one for likely a week or two as I couldn't stand it), things have definitely changed.   I would love to hear the new Hypex Nilai and the latest EIGENTAKT modules.

I have owned a Rogue and a Carey Integrated. Both class D and both were sterile and uninvolving. After that, I stay away from class D amps.

FWIW currently using a Luxman 505UX Mark2.

Just my experience.

Regards,

John

 

@ghdprentice +1, very good answer.

A few years ago, I moved from some nice sounding class A amps to Bruno Putzeys' Class D NC1200 monoblocks that were all the rage at the time.  Unfortunately, as mentioned by @ghdprentice, "everyone realized they just didn’t sound that good", including me.  In essence, they just did not sound natural to me wrt high frequencies, decay, and spatial ambience of the venue and between musicians.  Those amps made me think of individual musicians each playing in their own isolated sound booth. 

I have nothing against class D, but have not heard any examples perform at the same level as the better class A and AB amps I have owned.  However, I do like them powering my subs.

You clearly know what you like - "I currently have an Onkyo TXNR 636 which has served very well."  Therefore, take your time, go listen to some amplifiers, and then pick what sounds good to you, not what others say you should like, or what has the coolest-looking VU meters.

 

If you can certainly audition especially at your rig.

I ran a PS Audio S300 with a tube pre with much satisfaction. Moved to class A/B just to give it a try as I found a deal on a good amp and my speakers are bit sparkely at high levels. But would not hesitate to go back as most of my listening is at lower levels these days. PS Audio has a try and by in the USA but not sure about across the pond. Read the reviews on the Wyred4sound offerings as they have much experience with class D implementations and have units in your price range.

 

I have even seen the PS Audio M700 Mono blocks used in your price range.

My S300 ran really cool temp.

 

Also, being that you appear to be in the UK see if you can get in front of a Quad Artera Stereo amp. They can be had used , in the USA anyway, in your price range. Class A/B, but great bang for the buck amp.

Class D is good stuff these days. Try it and find out for yourself if interested.

I started with Class D about 14 years ago in part as an experiment prior to adding more tubes and never looked back. It’s even better technology today. All tubes are now gone. No regrets.

I run a Cambridge Evo 150 and an older Bel Canto c5i. Both are always dead quiet …zero noise issues if that helps put your concerns to rest.

Have heard other NAD Class D and can highly recommend.  The new integrated with the meters caught my eye and looks way cool. 
 

I am an old audiophile and must admit to being suspicious of this completely new class if amp when released, particularly as they a flea weight.

 

When first released there was a lot of hype about perfect sound and then a collapse as everyone realized they just didn’t sound that good. Then year by year they got better sounding. I have heard some contemporary Class D in my system. They can sound very good.

But the thing is, it depends on exactly how much you have to spend, your musical taste and system. Say you have $X to spend… maybe there is a class D that would be the very best sounding amp for you… but had your budget been $2X then some class AB would have been the best for you.

So, I would not stay clear of Class D. You need to carefully audition any high end amp to be sure it has the sound you want and fits in with your system.

OP:

Well most of your post seems related to Class-D in general, and the title was about Class D, not NAD, and those hesitations and questions are roads well traveled here.

NAD has promoted a hybrid-Class D in some amps, but not others, so I’m not sure if it was an experiment that didn’t go far or if it’s become core, or if there wasn’t enough benefit vs the basic Hypex Class D amplifier designs they are using.

Honestly I thought they did a poor job of promoting the hybrid part. My desktop 3020D for instance is one of those hybrid designs and it’s great but I don’t really challenge it.

My suggestion, which was implied in my first post, is to ignore 100% of the literature on Class D and actually listen to the amp you want to buy, preferably with the speakers you want to buy.

If it helps, I went from Parasound to Class D to Luxman.  At no point in using the Class D amp did I think "Oh, well this is a problem unique to class D", or "this sounds like class D."  so I encourage anyone thinking of buying to stop thinking Class D vs. the world and focus on budget, features and sound quality that you can actually hear. 

Check out the Music Fidelity 2si.  A good sounding line level integrated amplifier in your price range I believe. Class A/B. 

Very true and I am looking back but this amp only hit the shelves a week or so ago, Cambridge audio recently introduced some tech called Hypex Ncore (the word hype isn’t lost on me) nothing more than sales pitch about that, nothing meaningful.

Im not being lazy, this is a new amp and despite asking NAD a bunch of questions via email I’ve had no response. 
Ears do trump all but due to personal circumstances I really want to limit having to return anything, I also am unable to go demo one.

I’ll look into the hybrid tech you mention, I didn’t know about that, thanks for the pointer, it’s not mentioned in the blurb for the C3050 though. 

You joined in 2017. There have been dozens of threads on this subject since then which I encourage you to read. There are some points I want to make:

  • Your hearing trumps all specs and arguments and critics
  • I like some Class D a lot better than I like some megabuck Class A
  • Last I looked, NAD was using a hybrid Class D amp in some models which is quite innovative. It’s almost a class H amp, with a little Class A in the middle.