Room tuning or listen to as is condition?

I have Revel Salon 2 speakers in a small 12’x 13’ room and I get great bass. I sit approx. 8.5 to 9 feet from the speakers. The bass is not absolutely perfect in my room, but it’s close. I’m totally thrilled and blown away by the bass quantity and quality I’m getting out of the magnificent Salon 2s. Years ago, in a previous residence, I got a pair of Salon 1 speakers to work in a similarly sized room, and, as with the Salon 2s, I was totally blown away at how tame the speakers were in that room. So happy that I don’t have to go the more traditional route for my small room by settling for trying to integrate a sub or two with a pair of small, stand mount, bookshelf speaker. In my small room, with the Salon 2s, powered by the super awesome and powerful Hegel H590 integrated, I get true full range, absolutely phenomenal sound, that sounds great even at low volume listening levels. My audio system, with the Salon 2 speakers, takes me to another stratosphere of musicality.

@jjss49 I cannot agree any more. Learning a lot lately. 

@mike_in_nc I just love Revel speakers. You don't go wrong with them. But also a fan of YG, Magico, Wilsons, Devore, etc. I wish I can own them all!! Haha I am so glad you found the reason and treated it. That's exactly what I went through with my new office set up with Mon Acoustic SuperMon Isobaric. Totally different from AXPONA 2022 room. 

@spenav your room must be big. 4 subs??? I envy you. I want that kind of sub set up with 14-16 speakers for Dolby ATMOS. And THANK YOU SO MUCH for letting me know about the tutorial thread for posting here on Audiogon. I will find it over the weekend and share the measurements. 

@panzrwagn can you elaborate more with your system set up, please? I think it would help others reading the thread to be very fruitful with your knowledge. 

@serjio Haha, I think at certain point of your audio life, you hit the wall with what kind of house you are living in. Then there is a desire of bigger system and even bigger ambition of moving into a bigger house. 

@pedroeb After treating the basics, I am afraid to add more acoustic tuning to this room. But I just received MiniDSP SHD Studio, so I will play around with it with different speakers.

@kevinzoe 15 sweeps? I recommend at least 30-45. My friend told me about circling mic measuring technic. I was sold. Great Great writing. I think you can start your own blog. One irony I had was, I wanted similar look and design theme of tuning materials... and I realized some don't really have effects like they advertise, so I am little puzzled by the current interior look. Sounds pretty good, but the look is little off. I have to admit. 

@jw944ts Surely, you can find a tuning material to improve, or even EQ it? Add a subwoofer, if it doesn't bother you. Nothing wrong with adding a sub to 2ch audio. 

@holmz Not sure if you have read my previous replies in previous discussion topics. We are in serious discussion with the owner of the brand to publish measurements. Not every brand starts off with great funds or with a prominent financier. Mon Acoustic Audio is a small hand built company, trying to scale up. We will be publishing graphs :) Bear with us. Also I will be looking into how to publish images here with URL. (I think I am getting old, not familiar with this kind of thread). 

It is due to this exact type of thing, that makes me angry when someone comes out bashing certain equipment like bass speakers (drivers). Of course on that note, I also have to consider the designer when a certain driver fails in a DIY build. I have a Sub that I designed 20 years ago and it can't even be heard in the center of the room, but put it into a corner, forming a horn effect, and you have to turn the AMP almost fully off. I think half the fun of High-End audio is in the perfection of the system, which includes the environment it resides in.

@soixI usually try to gather the best information from all over the world... In this matter, I was shaped by Floyd E. Toole's lectures on electroacoustics... the opinions of professional builders of the best halls in the world (e.g. Vienna State Opera, Moscow State Tchaikovsky Conservatory, Carnegie Hall in New York) ... The opinion of a person who has been tuning home audio for many years (MLSSA measuring complex, 32 band equalizers, measurements and frequency response correction in the listening area) ... own modest trial and error experience over 35 years in a hobby ... common sense ...

@jjss49 , I listen true nearfield, unable to modify 

room for my Revel Salon 2, and my bass sucks

Nice to see that room treatment is becoming significant in the audiophile community. And if you are lucky enough to one day have your own listening room, you can do whatever you want with it.

IT SERIOUSLY PAYS OFF! Worth every penny to my ears.

@serjio Who taught you how to set up speakers?

even that is overkill

@pedroeb an empty rectangular room - means nothing more ... extra furniture and other things that will interfere with the sound ... This is the starting point. Do not distort. Of course carpet (if needed) or heavy drapes are part of the setup...
Fanaticism (various special bass traps), in my opinion, poisons the hobby - everything should be in moderation ... everything should be as simple and convenient as possible for life.

" So please share your story on what procedures or what steps you go through when you set up your system. "

Here goes . . .

> the room accounts for at least 50 percent of our sound quality so don't ignore it,  Either sit near field to minimize needed acoustical treatments or be prepared to treat as much as is needed for far field listening

> you need measurements but use your ears for final tuning.  I go around and place tape on the floor for every possible spot where a sub could go and take about a 15 sample avg of its freq sweep response measurements per spot,  I then review all to find the best 2 spots for my pair of subs. Then I use the 1/3rd guidelines to place the main stereo speakers away from the front wall and I sit 1/3rd from the rear wall.  Again use measurements to find the most even freq response measuring just one main speaker at a time and be sure to mark the floor with tape and include the tape number in your file name so you can match the freq response chart with the positioning,  Look for the smoothest response above  about 100Hz as your subs will play below this mark,  

> play the left main and left sub only simultaneously to integrate the sub  Use an assistant to turn the sub's dials as your watch real time freq response, assuming you are not using an active digital crossover or FIR convolution files for digital room correction.  Personally I use a 8 channel DAC so I have the flexibility to control each speaker and sub individually via FIR correction filter.  Repeat for right channel

> use impulse response of only the main speakers to time align them at the mic position. If one speaker is slightly ahead of the other then you'll see two impulse response peaks, so move one speaker fwd and/or the other backward such that the two peaks become a single peak

> identify frequency response problem areas using at least 1/24th octave smoothing on your freq chart.  Play with acoustical treatment locations and take before and after measurements.  Very iterative and time consuming however.  Take RT60 decay measurements to see if your room is too alive or too dead and use absorption or diffusion accordingly.  Make sure you sit far enough away (i,e, 3 wavelengths from the lowest note it diffuses effectively to) from a diffuser and in smaller rooms use 2dimentional diffusors like Skylines as just about 50 percent of the diffused reflections will be scattered horizontally

> Use DSP parametric EQ to cut peaks and use as few filters as possible as it messes up the phase.  Better yet use a tool like Audiolense XO to generate a FIR correction filter for your digital sources as it really works wonders.

> work with music on time aligning subs with each other first then with main speakers.  I use reggae music with a very pronounced downbeat from the drum and equally strong upbeat from the guitars or other instruments.  Listen to just the closest sub first to familiarize yourself with the bass beat then add the second sub and when its delay is best they both sound like the single sub did.  The time aligned subs are your baseline to then introduce your mains and add delay to the mains such that their upbeat is in beat with the sub's downbeat. 

phew , , , that took a while to write,  Hope it's helpful to someone , , ,

Surely the reverberations in an empty rectangular room with a hard wood floor and stone walls would be horrendous.

I always say - unless you have an empty rectangular room with a hard wood floor and stone walls - DON'T SPEND TOO MUCH ON AUDIO COMPONENTS - it's money out the window.

Yes good for you. Ma y people get upset when a person mentions  even a basic set up item. Glad you are experimenting  and using your ears. Enjoy

1) What you hear in the nearfield is dominated by the speakers input input into the room. 2) What you hear in the farfield is dominated by the output of the room - the early relections plus the reverberant field. 3) In most domestic rooms, the critical distance, where the level of the speaker and reverberant fields are equal,  equal, is closer than you think. 4) If you want to hear the speakers, not the room, acoustical treatment of the room is mandatory. 

i very much agree with this

of course, for statement #4, the alternative is to sit in a true nearfield setup if one won't or can't treat the room properly...

I am fortunate enough to have had formal training in architectural acoustics and learned a few fundamental truths. 1) What you hear in the nearfield is dominated by the speakers input input into the room. 2) What you hear in the farfield is dominated by the output of the room - the early relections plus the reverberant field. 3) In most domestic rooms, the critical distance, where the level of the speaker and reverberant fields are equal,  equal, is closer than you think. 4) If you want to hear the speakers, not the room, acoustical treatment of the room is mandatory. 

For frequencies between 20HZ and about 250HZ your room will be the dominant factor. Although I use an array of 4 subs, I still used REW and some room treatment to get the best bass my money can give me. Strangely, getting the bass right did a lot for the mid and high frequencies.  Go figure. By the way, a square room can be a nightmare when it comes to bass. 
Also, there is a thread where the admin explained how to post pictures, videos and graphs. Do a search on it and you will be all set. 

About 20 yrs ago, I had a small windfall and bought the most costly speakers I've owned -- Revel Ultima Studio. (I am a scientist, not a doctor, lawyer, or tycoon -- so no Wilsons or YG or Magicos.) I got them delivered, and they sounded just like the old cheap speakers.

Somehow, I realized the issue was room acoustics, and I got a plan from ASC. I wound up spending about 50% of the speakers' cost in acoustic treatments, and the improvement wasn't 50%, it was 500% in clarity, smoothness, and evenness.

I have never gone back and make room treatment a priority in my audio room ever since.

getting the room right pays endless dividends

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I need to learn how to post with an image here. I wanted to share my measurement graph from REW, not sure how to do this here.
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Without the graphs this is as interesting as your web site…

Please figure out how to get those images placed in, so it is not a story without the proof that what happened was a thing of goodness. It will greatly improve the experience for many here to do that.

You probably need them posted on another URL service, and then that link is inserted here.

Room tuning first.  A well behaved room is a lot more speaker friendly and will make you happier with a lot more speakers.