I don’t need to read reviews on Tektons. I used to own them. The Double Impact Se. For a whole three months
@olesno
@olesno
Road trip to demo $10,000 speakers
I'm going to take a several hour road trip to the Washington DC/Baltimore area to demo some speakers in the $10,000 range for a once in a lifetime purchase. I plan on listening to some Magico A3's, Aerial Acoustic 7T's, and Spendor D-9's. One of the dealers also has Paradigm
Persona 3F's on the floor, so I'll take a listen to them too. While I'm up there are there any other speakers in that price range you'd recommend I try to locate and take a listen to. I'm open to and welcome your suggestions and will take the time to research each one as well.
I'm not in the market for used equipment. Thanks for any and all suggestions.
Mike
I'm not in the market for used equipment. Thanks for any and all suggestions.
Mike
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Thanks Jafant. I've got another longish thread going in the Audiogon Amps section trying to learn the ins and out of integrated amps, and what models to look at. That's another steep learning curve. Chriissian, I don't think I was the one making the Chinese junk statement, although it sounds like something that might come out my mouth. I've been burned so many times by so many Chinese products of all sorts, I'm leery of spending money on anything from there. I've no doubt your Revels are of the highest quality, and the F228BE's were high up on my short list. You know the expression, "once bitten twice shy". That's where I'm at with any Chinese products. It's definitely not all junk, but so much of it is, you can't possibly ignore it. As it is, I may, end up getting a Chinese-made Hegel H360 amp in spite of myself, not yet having found a suitable alternative in my price range. I'm not done looking yet though. And I've no idea what may be going on over in Indonesia either, other than the poor orangutans are in rough shape. Enjoy your Revels, and take it easy. Mike Time for this thread to RIP. Thanks again all. |
I just looked on the back of my Revel 228 be and it is made in Indonesia, which is not China. I can only think how much more expensive they would be if made in the USA. It would still be cool to have a handmade speaker from California, like they used to be, and Magico still is. I love the construction quality of every Magico I have listened to. I think Magico, like Revel, can sound awesome or awful depending on set up and the gear behind them. Low distortion speakers are usually like that. |
Well Magico is a very well made speaker so congrats on your purchase. I do have an issue with the statement "junk sourced from China " remarks about the Revel, it is unfair and discredits a very, very good speaker. The new f228 be is astounding for the price, and I am very familiar with the highest end audio availible regardless of cost if that means anything. I can listen to hundred thousand dollar plus speakers and have access to systems that excede half a million dollars when ever I want. I am not trying to one up anyone or brag it's just the truth. The R&D that went into the 228be and the measured performance is world class, not just for its price point but regardless of cost. |
I guess Jafant had comments on the Aerial 7T and Revel. The Aerial 7T is going to be a very smooth and forgiving speaker, somewhat laid back. If you want detail, this is not the speaker for you. They are radically different than the older generation Aerial Acoustic speakers. ---- I heard the new Revel Performa Be (beryllium). I think they are excellent sounding. Excellent resolution!! and much better than the previous generation Revel. They did not have the brightness issue from the older Revel metal dome tweeters. The newer Performa Be also had some amazingly deep and strong bass -- I was extremely impressed. At $10k a pair, I would actually put this in my own list, that is if I ever decided to move away from B&W D3 and Revel came out with a Be center channel! lol. |
I have heard the Tektons. For the value, they are excellent. However, be aware that it is a large number of drivers (on double impact, it is 11 drivers per speaker). At $3,000 retail, you are basically getting a lot of cheap drivers. If you're not hung up on individually driver quality, this speaker will definitely belt out loud music. Overall, it is pretty darn good, but it's not the highest resolution sound and does have a somewhat dry character. ---- For the money, I would rather get some of the upper end Elac speakers in this price range. I have heard Joseph Audio and they are awsome, but seriously expensive. I actually built some speakers using the exact same Seas Magnesium drivers. For much much less, you can look at Tyler Acoustic Classics. Or Salk makes some speakers using the same Seas magnesium drivers. Those Seas Magnesium drivers are ultra high resolution, and many people don't realize how much of the midrange driver does the high frequencies as well. ---- Other speakers I have heard that are excellent are Audio Physic, B&W D3, Sonus Faber. I heard the Spendor and was not impressed at all. Very blurry sounding, but nice if you want a warm speaker I guess. |
Firstnots, woud have liked to have heard some Joseph Audio speakers, but the closest dealer was in Pennsylvania, too far away.. I'm in SW Virgina. I'd be curious how you thought the more expensive Joseph speaker you listened to compared to the Magico A3's if you track a pair down to demo. Those Spendors D-9's are hard to track down to demo too. Their USA distributo, Bluebird something or other, was not very helpful. After two contacts with them I gave up. A couple of days ago a dealer in Richmond I was talking to about amps, said he carried them, but I'm not sure though he has them on his showroom floor for demo. I'll check if I go up there as they were on my short list to have demoed. Good luck on your search. The Magicos might be worth the trouble of tracking down. I sure liked them. Gosta. Thanks for your input on the Tannoys and ATC's, but I happily purchased the Magico A3's Wednesday. Mike |
I'm in here late but ATC SCM100 and/or Tannoy Kensington GR and be done with it. They will sound better than anything on good recordings and very revealing of bad recordings. But there are a lot of good stuff to listen to... Look for the brands that music is produced on. Avoid speakers that try to flatten the sound and make it always enjoyable or are specifically voiced for one type of music They're never good enough. Just my opinion. Have a nice time! |
Allangard. Magico does make a unique and good looking grill for the A3's. Costs $600 a pair. I ordered them at the same time as the A3's at Command Performance who had them on their demo model. Check out this link. Give the page a second to load before you scroll down:
https://www.magico.net/product/a3.php Mike |
Thanks Thomas, I'll google your amp. I've got a thread going on amps now so I can start to sort that subject out. Thanks Steve, there sure were a lot of recommendations as you say. I did research each and every one of them though. Hmm, Alon Wolf recommends the $6000 h360, but then demos with the $15,000 h30. Lots of used car type salesmanship in the audio market I'd say. There's a couple of Hegel dealer hereabouts in Virginia, within 3 or 4 hours anyway. I hear what you're saying about saving money from your retirement fund, as the Magico's depleted mine by $10,000+. I'm still good though. It would have taken forever to save up for them on Social Security and a pension, so I'm glad to have them now while I can still enjoy them for hopefully another twenty years or so. A $15,000 amp however is out of the question. I can still hear my late wife grousing about my new tractor purchase when I retired. Here's hoping she doesn't read Audiogon in heaven and finds out about the ten grand Magico's. Take it easy Steve. Mike. |
Congratulation on getting Magico A3. It could be speaker for your life. Since it is back-ordered, you have plenty of time to get the amplifier. One nice starting point is Rogue Cronus Magnum II with tube 100w power. With some tube rolling it is very good for the price. I had been happy to use it with my Lansche 4.1 speaker for 6 years. Good Luck! Thomas |
Ozzy, you’re right there. The Magico A3’s can really put a spell on you. Good luck and have fun. Jafant, thanks for taking an interest. And thanks for describing your listening experience with the Aerial 7T and the Revel. I usually like to be thorough researching and checking into any product I’m buying, especially at these prices. I really should have been more OCD and auditioned more speakers after the amount of reading I did on each of them. Your statements about those two models makes me feel a bit better about not having done so. Those Magico’s did grab me though. Do you still have Thiels? Shame they went out of business. Would have liked to have heard them. Well, it’s on to researching integrated amps next. Mike |
Outstanding! MikeI enjoyed reading about your Speaker trek. You did not miss out on the Aerial 7t model, a few years ago I was sorely disappointed. Turned out to be a great move, as I discovered Thiel Audio. Revel was a disappointment as well. Much Thanks for listing the dealers/retailers visited. There is nothing wrong about citing a poor experience w/ any Audio shop visited. Enjoy the Magico A3. Happy Listening! |
My apologies fsonicsmith, don’t know what I was thinking. Everybody misspells my last name, O’Neill too, so I’m usually conscientious about that type of thing. I won’t fail you again. Tomic601, you’re lucky to have seen the Pretenders live. The closest I’ve ever come is listening to a drunken Clyde McPhatter and the Platters sing "Yes, I’m the Great Pretender" on stage at my college at a golden oldies show. I always figured the Pretenders named themselves after that song. Thanks prof. I was actually quite influenced by your extensive post and reviews of so many speakers in that price range. Your post helped narrow down my search considerably. I read you review of the Magico A3 , Vandersteen and the Devore speakers twice. I couldn’t get past how well the 50’s jazz selections sounded on the Magico’s. Just the right sonic qualities for my listening taste I suppose. I hope they sound half as good at home, especially until I can upgrade my old, but still functioning Phase Linear 400 amp and 4000 preamp. Another thing I liked, having nothing to do with sonic qualities, is the Magico A3’s appearance. They seem to be designed to blend in with a decor, not be a jewel in their own right as some are. I’ve antique furniture pieces in the same room and I don’t desire twenty-first century modern design speakers competing with them, or drawing attention to themselves. Instead, blending in as much as possible is the goal. That being said, the A3’s do look good in their own right with a stylish subdued industrial look that should fit in with my other electronics, and provide a pleasing contrast to the mahogany wood in the antiques. We’ll see. My old Dahlquist DQ10’s were admittedly always an eyesore in this room and referred to as "big black holes" on many occasions I did not thoroughly enjoy. I wish the old Thiels were still being manufactured. Your’s sound wonderful as described. I talked about them with the Vandersteen dealer. Mike |
i am also from Ohio...my recollection is the song aint all that glowing...something about “ parking....spaces”.... funny story.....i was trudging past the reader board for Mershon auditorium on High street and a gal was changing letters to act a new act she had spelled out The Pre i asked to solve the puzzle...yes..The Pretenders at Mershon ( small seats like 600, typicality classical, light jazz, ndver Blues, seating staff wear tux’s....my first thought is unpublishable...my second thought a booking mistake...no way !!!! next stop ticket office...max out my student cub scout VISa...ask forgiveness later.. omg did they freaking rock that place band hung out at Agora ballroom across street afterwards.... ”my city was gone” |
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Congrats skyscraper. I've heard the Magico A3 and although in that audition they weren't my cup of tea, the showed lots of promise and had some stunning sonic qualities. I came away thinking they had to be one of the great current audio bargains. Like you, I used to go on extensive speaker auditioning journey's. I'm in Canada but would make trips to NYC, Buffalo, sometimes LA. I was insatiable once I was on the hunt. It's good you managed to find your speaker so quickly. I look forward to your impressions of the A3s once you own them. |
Thanks Tomic60. The Magico purchase saved you a trip flying out to Roanoke to set up Vandersteen Treo’s. The Treo’s came in a close second to my ears, and were great recreating vocal performances. Don’t see how anybody could go wrong with them. Larryi, I’m sorry I missed my planned third stop at Deja Vu. I got so excited after listening to and buying the Majico A3’s I completely forgot my planned stop there. I had a message from them when I got home, so I called them back today and offered my apologies for standing them up after they had set up the ProAc’s for demoing. The good news is I still get excited about audio equipment at age 66. I’ll be sure stop to at Deja Vu next year when I’m auditioning amps, since you’ve made them sound so intriguing. Mike |
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Congratulations on a successful trip. I like the approach of not fretting over hearing all of the alternative out there (an impossible task) and simply buying something that pushed all your buttons. Command is a great place to buy something; they will provide you whatever support you need. Still, I do wonder what you might have thought of the completely different sound you would encounter at Deja Vu. Of course, there sound is far from pleasing everyone's taste, but, a surprising number of listeners find it to be almost a religious experience--they are shocked at how much more they simply enjoy the music. Their sound is not for someone who "analyzes" the sound and looks for extremely deep and tight bass, extended highs, etc.--it is all about connecting musically and uncritically. They get a lot of "wow, I've never heard anything like this" reaction. |
Kalali,, you're right about dealers using the music streaming services. But that's not what I was asking for since I don't use streaming myself, instead mostly vinyl records, some CD's. I don't know what happened to the "customer is always right " axiom. Calvin j, thank you. Steve59, Thanks for your suggestions, but the the method you suggest while having a lot of merit is impractical for my location and access to dealers. And I honestly don't want to be buying, shipping and selling used equipment for demo purposes at my home, or to be taking a year to do this. Call me crazy or lazy, but I'm not that ambitious. I'd give you credit if you've gone to that extent. My upgrade path ends here too. My DQ 10's lasted me 40+ years. At that rate. That will make me age 106 before needing new speakers again. After upgrading my amp/preamp, I plan on spending money on source material instead of upgrades, until I hit 106 that is. Jones4music, If I had PeeWee's bicycle I'd pedal that over to the dealers to complete the picture. Sounsrealaudio, I would llike to take in The upcoming Washinton DC audio show. It would be nice to audition all eleven of the speakers still extant on my list of possibles, all recommend by you all (or youse, as we say in NY.). Jafant, I promised you an update when I got back, so here it is a truncated, but still long, version. After a lot of research, I narrowed down my search, from the eleven possible speakers on my "not so short" list. Some were eliminated due to aesthetics, some to being ported designs less favorable to the close to the wall location my listening room requires, some such as the Spendor D9 and Lawrence Audio not being available anywhere close enough, the Revel F228BE's because they are Chinese-made and I'm too leery of the quality control issues endemic to Chinese products of any sort, and the Magnepan's becaus they wouldn't fit or go well in my listening room. I was also disappointed to eliminate the Aerial Acoustic 7T's and Monitor Audi PL200 II's I had hoped to listen to at Evolution Audio before dealing with the aforementioned problem with that dealer's service yesterday. My new short list became the Vandersteen Treo, Devore Gibbon Super 9 , the Magico A3's, and the ProAc D48r. The Vandersteens Treo's, first up at Gifted Listener, did best on realistically reproducing female vocals. I brought along Chrissie Hind's "Learning to Crawl" Pretender's album to listen to "A Thin Line Between Love and Hate" which I love, and listened to a live Alison Krauss record they had on hand . Both sound full bodied and beautiful. The Treo's were a little light on the bass response. Gerry Mulligan meets Ben Webster's remaster CD sounded wonderful too on the Treos, but the Cannonball Adderly Rudy von Gelder remastered Something Else CD (with Miles Davis as a sideman) sounded so muddy I thought I brought along a poor CD for auditioning. I have to mention the dealer was gracious and helpful at Gifted Listener. Next stop was Command Performance to listen to the Magico A3 and Devore Gibbon Super 9. Again dealer service was excellent. The Magico A3 did not do as well as the Vandersteen in reproducing Chrissie Hind's voice. She sounded less full-bodied and real, even so far as feeling further back in the track's mix. On the other hand the Cannonball Adderly was outstanding. The instruments were well defined and articulated. The bass (Sam Jones) was crisp and not boomy, and Milles Davis never sounded better. What a difference. Maybe it had something to do with the amp too. I had also brought along an obscure ECM world music recording, Brazilian Egberto Gismonti's "Sol Do Meio Dia, album because ECM records have their own distinctive open, clean sound. That recording also makes the VU meters on my old Phase Linear amp recording jump around wildly. That recording sounded great on all of the speakers demoed, and a $40,000 Focal they let me listen to for fun. The Devore's sounded more smooth than the Magico's, somewhere between the Treo and them. I also listened to my all time favorite Rock n' Roll album, the Stone's poorly recorded "Let It Bleed". The Magicos revealed it's every fault. Mick Jagger sounded like he was singing with a garbage can over his head. The album sounded poorly on all speakers. On the other hand Los Lobos remastered "Kiko" album's driving "That Train Don't Stop Here Any More" sounded great on all speakers, but particularly riveting on the the Magico A3's. All instruments were crisp, no boomy bass. The midrange had punch. All in all, I really liked the Magico best. For instrumental music it had the most detailed, well articulated sound at various volumes with a good soundstage. I listen to a lot of 50's jazz, more than vocal music, no offense Aretha, Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald or many others I love to listen to. The Devores had a smoother sound and undoubtedly would lessen listener fatigue. They sounded somewhere between the Magico's and the Vandersteens. The Magico's were so good at revealing each instrument I had to have them. So I plunked down a check, blew off the ProAc demo in my excitement, and traveled home. Others must like the Magico's too because I've got to wait until February to get them, they are so far back-ordered. Can't wait. Thank you all so much for your guidance and education on buying these expensive speakers. I could not have done this without all your help and the knowledge you've shared. I had not even heard of most of the speaker's brand names before. You're the best. Mike |
I would take a road trip to one of the audio shows around the country. 10K is more then a few dollars. You might as well listen to more then on or two pair. My first trip to the CES was all planned out. Listen to the speakers that the reviewers suggested. Well that was a bust. Those guys are just like the rest of us, or maybe not. I did hear some very good speakers but none were on the " list" |
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I expect the speakers we read the most mixed reports about, say persona 3f goes from both ends of the scale some saying it's bright and unlistenable to the best speaker they've heard for the price to mean those are more room dependent ie less colored than other more consistent sounding speakers? that may sound idiotic but I still think you're crazy shelling out $10k for speakers you can't hear in your own room first! the odds speakers you hear at the showroom will sound the same when you get them home is unlikely. again, use local dealers to make a small list, buy used here and of the list the ones that sound right in your room return to buy new! I't will take time but you will know you did it right and a $10 k pair used will cost 1/2 that used so you could home demo the 2nd pair while reselling the first, 'coarse the process will probably take a year or more but for many of us the upgrade path never ends. |
Calvinj and kalali, wish I had time to track down a copy of Toussaints "Bright Mississsipi’ but I’m leaving early tomorrow to audition speakers. Thanks for the recommend anyway. I’ll try and find it before next years amp buying tour. Twoleftears, I’m on it with the notes. Good point about earlier speaker demos being at a disadvantage. By the way Evolution Audio indicated they couldn’t be bothered with "lugging turntables or CD players around the store" for demos. It was streaming or nothing. I let them know they could go with the nothing. Too bad because I would have liked to have heard the Aerial Acoustic 7T’s there, as well as the Paradign Persona 3F’s. I might be able to catch the Paradigms in Richmond and the Monitor Audio’s back home in Roanoke. Amazing how someone will blow off a potential $10,000 sale. All the other dealers were quite gracious in contrast. There’s a lot to be said for good service. Might be able to do the trip in one day now is the silver lining. Ozzy, the Magico A3’s will likely be at my first stop tomorrow. I’m looking forward to hearing them. The dealer did warn me that orders are back-logged through February, Jafant, I'll post my results soon as I'm home. Thanks for asking. Mike |
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