I spent quite awhile in the Boenicke/Sotm room at the show and was quite taken aback on how musically engaging the W5's were. They ooze a musical timbre that was simply stunning. Considering how diminutive they are (no bigger than PC speakers) they produce a big sound stage. To my ears they are a true Hi-Fi bargain at a paltry $3600 a pair when they are compared to some speakers that cost many times more and are not in the same league as these miniature mighty marvels. There were a few speakers at the show that nearly made my ears bleed and my wallet to hide........
Hi I own a pair of Boenicke w5’s Rotel Ra -1572 integrated and matching CD player xlr interconnects Imac with (silver dragon)moon usb A To B cable Audirvana Plusmusic player and some cardas speaker cable
previous speakers Hale Revelation 3’s
my new little system hums ! its definetly a budget system that punches far above its weight and the Boenicke w5’s are Natural sounding and handle my diverse musical tastes with great finesse Do they play LOUD. Uhmm YES ! Are they fatiguing NO ! Did i prefer my Hales yes ..were the Hales humongous YEP Am I a happy camper ! Lets see with my ipad and the app for Audirvana Plusmusic player I get to sit and play what i what when i want ..without struggle Would i be Happy upgrading electonics YES ! Small budget small space ..Boenicke w5 are worth listining to for the right people ..far more ENJOYABLE than most similar sized and priced speakers ..for playing slightly less than perfect recordings of favorite music of all genres
I also was very impressed
with the Boenicke’s. I was very shocked to hear that much quality
sound coming from these small speakers. Another
company I was unfamiliar with, but was a stand out for the price was
Margules. They had a $12k speaker that
was fantastic for the money. In that
same range I thought the Focal Sopra 2, Legacy Focus SE and Marten Django L
were excellent. My higher dollar favorites
from the show were the Magico M3, Rockport Cygnus and with a somewhat lower
price, the Tidal Piano Diacera G2.
My Treo's in the CT version go for 8k I believe. They would go against the W11 and cost a bit less. I'd love to hear them in a similar system. I may seriously look for a dealer in NYC. Does anyone know of any?
One could pay a shed load more of the green paper and get (musically) a whole lot less. I failed to mention the pairing of Sotm gear running with the W5's. It was a completely random pairing, and I think they paired very well together.
I had to read some reviews before posting. Being an open minded individual and based on what I read, they seem to be priced appropriately. The way they're milled is rather impressive in itself. Thanks for sharing.
I have a lot of Vandersteen friends if you would and a few have mentioned the Boenicke as speakers they would have on their short list a long with the Vandy's. I'll get to hear them one of these days. Personally, I can't live without a full range or nearly full range speaker anymore. Once you have it, you want it. I'm listening longer than I ever did when I has stand mounts even when they were larger boxes.
First off why are you yelling? This thread is on the second page so it's been going for a bit. Where is the other thread? Many of us don't just look at all the threads to see where there are extras. Usually once a thread makes two pages, it has a life of it's own. Just saying.
interesting read. Bass is the most expensive part of the spectrum to properly reproduce. It just is for many reasons. I read someone above talk about adding extra cone area to produce more sound pressure, but that does add so many more problems. I'm sensitive to coherency problems in speakers and once folks add the larger cones, they rarely are able to keep the coherency and if they do, it's going to be very very expensive to do so.
We all know that folks make trade offs when designing speakers. I've learned as have most that you can't go into things with preconceived notions. I'm personally living with an incredible pair of Vandy Treo's that I NEVER was going to let in my house. I hadn't heard them in over 20 years when I was upgrading the system and I was forced to give them an audition. Legacy was another brand that I was asked to listen to at another store and I hated the model they auditioned, but then they put on the newer model and I really liked them a lot. It was their newest tweeter vs their older one. Harsh is the word that came to mind. I hurt my ears on the older one, lol. The one I liked, I couldn't afford so it was a non starter.
I was always a monitor guys, but every time I listened I felt I was missing the foundation of the music. I love rock as well as everything else. That's why I like what Vandersteen does with his speakers...he gives you trade offs that the majority of folks can easily live with and most enjoy. You can go plenty deep and get the air in the room to move, lol.
Shows are the worst environment to listen, but you can get an idea of sound signature and if you are able to be one of the few in a room, you can get a much better idea. Some vendors are always getting chosen as best of show. Go and look at the old show reports from STereophile or TAS or the multitude of other sites that you know and trust a bit and you'll see what reviewers like and often even end up owning for their personal systems (many aren't even allowed to talk about what they personally own believe it or not). I know a few guys who talk about their personal 'ref' systems they use, but actually are using someone else's speakers for their OWN every day listening when they can. Always politics, lol.
Well, I'm in the hospital recovering from surgery and am posting way too much, lol....sorry......I've heard a lot about the W5's, but not sure where they are even sold in the Northeast.
Now of course people who hear a product and it leaves no impression or a bad one are not likely to report or start a thread unless asked. . But still every good review counts for something though ymmv.
I really need to get out more. There are so many speakers/products that I would love to hear. Being out of the hobby for so many years before deciding to put together a system I have missed the evolution of music reproduction. The Boenicke W5 seems to represent a big move forward in the quantity/quality equation. With WAF and small listening spaces considered, something like these just might be an option when they send me to the old folks home. Hopefully they put me in the section with the hearing impaired.
Bruce, Your sonic description of the Boenicke W5 is consistent with what others who have heard them report (exceptionally high sound quality). It’s the timeless quality vs quantity debate. The value of an audio product is judged individually and reflects on how much listening fulfilment and long term joy it delivers. Each one of us have our own criteria and goal. Happy listening to all 😊 Charles,
Not gonna harp. Everyone made their points. That’s what forums are for. They look like a quality product. Just add a good sub or two if needed. Or do like many happily do and just go small and don’t give that often problematic bass a chance get in the way of the other glorious things .happening.
I have a similar size speaker in my office at work. It is very enjoyable. Sometimes I hear things there that I don’t in a bigger setup simply because some other things are just not there.. Of course I hear things in the bigger setup I don’t hear on the little speaker as well. Its all good.
They maybe small in stature, and price lol, but they, when heard no way portrait the traits of a small speaker, I know someone will harp on about size, graphs, the laws of physics etc blah blah blah......., but they are the consummate bargain for their quality of sound, excluding the bottom octave. $3600 is a lot of money for single component in the chain, but when one counts the many hours of happy listening, the price Is not an issue.
Hi, I heard the Boenicke W5's at the Tokyo Audio Show. In a giant room. I am still amazed, weeks later. They truly shocked me with their tremendous soundstage, clarity, and softness (I don't know if that is the right term but I felt gently enveloped by their sound). By far the best speaker I heard. It was magical. There was no forwardness. No assault on the ears. And they filled the entire room with beautiful music. I could not believe that all that sound was coming from such a tiny speaker. In Japan they cost the equivalent of $7,000 for the pair. As I dream of owning them at the US retail price (and the quality electronics to go with them) I'm encouraged by the fact that they would be easy to smuggle back in my suitcase. Bruce
Hello Dentdog, I trust your ears and judgement. Same with other Zu owners whom I hold in high regard. Germanboxers, 213 Cobra,gsm (gary) Spiritofmusic. You'd think that once or twice out of 5 listening encounters they'd sound reasonably good, not yet.
It is puzzling as other brands have managed to sound very well under the same show environment constraints. I like their design concept of high efficiency and wide band drivers. Again this is why I relate to Gawbless's comments. When you're in a room with exceptional sound you know it.😀. Charles,
The surprise factor of an ultra small speaker talking big can be and probably is an element in the wow factor experienced by the OP. Admittedly, to get some great timbre and believable music from such a small package is quite remarkable. The price-well if you look at the offerings on this site 3.6K isn't otherworldly. Gawd is just saying, in his view, they outperformed their price tag. We all listen to each other in attempting to dig through price/valuations etc. charles 1dad, I have two sets of Zu speakers. They must be dialed in and other factors must be dealt with, tubes etc. But I assure you they have a 'they are here" quality and can be balanced to give an eerily real presentation. In a hotel with two days prep? Maybe not.
Well I don't know what facts you are referring to. Anyway I've stated my viewpoint, Gawbless simply posted listening impressions of a speaker that sounded very good to him at RMAF. His post was interesting and insightful. It's really nothing more then that. Charles,
Mapman, Yes yours is a rant, Gawbless is stating a more logical point and observation. At least that how the comments come across to me. Larger is not better by default, no way. It clearly depends on one’s needs and desires. This seems a simple and practical perspective Gawbless, "paltry" has triggered an alarm it seems. LOL. If 3.6K dollars can provide someone the equal satisfaction of a 20 or 30K dollar product,then 3.6 is paltry in relative terms. Charles,
Gawd you just demonstrated my point again. $3600 would be a paltry sum to get the sound and performance possible for $348,000. You also likely need a very large room, maybe an auditorium or sports stadium to be able to say $348000 is a paltry amount to spend for speakers.
Anyone can look up the average cost of speakers of various sizes and level of performance. $3600 for perhaps one of the smallest speakers out there might well be justifiable for some, but its not paltry.
Its all a metter of expectations I suppose. People in these parts expect to pay more for top performance. Paltry to those perhaps but get real not to 99.9% of the real world. Just like $100 freakin fuses.
Charles, I heard the Raidho 2's at the show? they were big speakers anyway at the show, whilst I liked their sound and stayed for a whole song, the ahem W5's were musically better, in that the Instruments and vocals sounded more real with an uncanny timbre (as I mentioned before). Did they have more bass? Course not, but its not all about the bass, statistics and meaningless graphs or cups with water in, its all about the ears and musical emotion. After all one could buy a sub or two, or move up the Boenicke range to their floor standers. Jeez, anyone would think I am a salesperson for them. I don't know why the *p* word is so upsetting to some. How else could one describe the difference between $3600 and $348,000? close?
The size of some of the models mentioned may be paltry but the cost is not. That’s the point. Has nothing to do if they are judged to sound good or not. What is so hard to understand?
I’ve heard the Magico Monitors and yes the sound was superb. If I had a smaller room and a considerable budget I might consider owning them. But I would not call the cost paltry. They are in fact quite expensive and frankly the sound can be matched for much less. Especially if same 6 digit set of electronics used to drive the competition.
Gawbless, The wisdom of the reviewer is evident given some of the responses here and is why I found his assessment so on the mark. Such strong opinion stated without any listening whatsoever. To look at a speaker's size and then assume so much isn't a demonstration of substance or much thought. Two speakers could have identical dimensions and yet be worlds apart in sound quality. Raidho and Magico have mini monitors that are in the 25K USD range. They may or may not be superior to the 3.6 K USD Boenicke W5. Who knows? only by "listening" can these issues be settled. Looking at pictures doesn't cut it. Mini monitors can range from true state of the art level to subpar. You have to hear an audio product. No one claims any mini monitor is a full range speaker, yet they can be superb in their own realm. Charles,
It explains well why size matters but not all drivers of a particular size are created equal.
The OHm Microwalsh speaker is an excellent example of a smaller speaker driver that can deliver a lot of sound and bass for its size. Its cost is about half the Boenicke W5 I believe but its volume, which matters as well when it comes to bass would seem to be greater.
Another excellent small speaker I have heard in this regard in similar price range way less than W5 is Totem Arro.
So W5 is not paltry even by smaller speaker standards. That's all.
Charles, The only thing I would take exception with is comparing them to much larger and/or expensive speakers and calling the cost paltry by comparison. it is not paltry for speakers that size. just like a $100 fuse might be worth it to some but the cost cannot be called paltry except when compared to what people spend on their hifis otherwise. That’s just marketing, nothing of substance.
if it turns out the expensive small speakers are teh best fit in ones case, that’s fine. Let’s just be real about those things that are concrete and measurable, like size and price, both of which are always perfectly clear and measured and always matter rather than opinions which are just that.
Hi Charles, I have not read the 6moon review, but I will for sure. I think darts are being thrown without a dart board in sight with regards to some posts. It is good to have a lively debate on a subject closer to our hearts rather than our ears. Its what this forum is for! The W5 on MY listening experience without the law of physics, or any other law other than my own ears, is that the W5 is a speaker I could live with if my living situation were different. All I will say is if you can listen to a pair take the opportunity, you maybe be as surprised as I was.
Kaliki- I believe they can hit 93db without strain. Hardly a small room SPL, there goes that dart again.................*smiley face*
Here is the last two paragraphs of the 6moon review.
No more monkey business. Its compact size and driver artillery pass right under macho radars of course. As anyone visiting Sven's Basel showroom would see, these things can flood a huge space at solid levels without flinching. But few will have faith without such proof. Here dealers won't exactly do themselves favors either. Playing these will risk having far pricier fare look and sound antiquated. Not that this review will make much of a dent. Preconceptions about loudspeakers and what's actually required are too deeply engrained.
The W5 is ahead of that curve. Prospective owners thus must take a leap of faith. Even auditions can bring up reflexive doubts when accumulated audiophile knowledge refutes the naked evidence staring it smack in the face. Those into monkey coffins must continue their sad ways then. Happy trails. But to appropriate from a famous Zen koan about a goose in a bottle, with the W5 now the monkey is simply out. And like it says on the terminal plate above, that leaves us with Swiss Happiness in a—tiny—Box. Why put the monkey back in?
Mapman, That’s the point, Gawbless wasn’t challenging the laws of physics or implying the speaker has no limitations (all speakers do). He simply wrote that they sound good. Of course reviewers offer opinion (just as you, I and everyone else) no dispute there. At the very least he heard the speakers which is a meaningful point. Listening trumps assumptions . Anyway Gawbless is more than capable of explaining his thoughts. It seems some are offended that he compared them to larger speakers,heaven forbid! Charles,
No limitations, well almost, down to 25 hz we go in an orderly fashion, anything less is not acceptable. What I have now is more or less balanced down to probably 35 hz - not good enough, not bad though.
Its a preconceived notion based on the laws of physics and having heard many speakers both large and small that have no choice but to always abide by those laws. Not just whimsy or speculation. Its how things work. Whereas a reviewers review is merely an opinion based on whatever happens to be the reviewers motivation.
I’m sure they sound very good within their limitations. If those are the limitations one chooses to live with for that price along with the rest than so be it.
Erik, I agree with your logic. All Gawbless said is these Boenickes were really quite good and impressed him more than some larger and more expensive speakers under show conditions. He never said they're the speakers he's ever heard. Let's have perspective and appreciate the context. Charles,
Your observations are correct. Speakers with less bass extension get into trouble less frequently than larger speakers.
The further down you go, the more likely you are to excite a room mode and get outrageous or no apparent output.
This is why a good 2 way with extension to 40-ish Hz are the best compromise and easiest to live for most music lovers.
Now, for those who really will do whatever it takes, spend any amount, well, there’s ways, many ways << evil laugh >>
Unfortunately music lovers think the solution to all bass problems is just to add cone area, and that's where things go south. A 2-way speaker like I described is like the girl (or guy) next-door. Easy to get along with, always up for a trip, movie, or baseball game. Subwoofers are the schizophrenic neighbor who you wake up one day and see screaming at an oak tree and attacking it Don Quixote like with a rake. "Full range" speakers that go lower than 40ish Hz are going to be somewhere in between.
The last time I checked, the law of physics was still alive and working. I have no doubt those little speakers would have sounded awesome in my college dorm room but I bet the guy who invented them was not even born back then. That aside, let's get real and compare apples with apples. Money no object, it is quite possible these may be best sounding speakers if someone is looking for speakers for a small room. I bet I would have been a lot more popular if I had these speakers in my bedroom back when I was single.
This is why I agree with the 6 Moons reviewer regarding preconceived notions. I just believe that you have to listen to a product before you can form any "meaningful "opinion. That's just me. Charles,
Come one, $3600 don't even buy top of the line cable, any cable. Talking speakers, I pay attention to nothing less than $10k unless perhaps they are sold only direct. And size does matter.
Regarding Zu speakers I greatly respect the opinions of several folks who post on Audiogon and happen to be Zu owners. I've heard various Zu speakers a total of 5 times and each encounter was disappointing (CES and RMAF venues). Perhaps they don't sound their best under show conditions (although I have heard numerous brands that manage to sound good at these shows). It may be the tendency to play them loud for demonstration. They just haven't sound very good so far in my experience. Charles,
Hi Gawbless, Professional review of the Boenicke W5 do concur with your listening impressions. Interestingly The 6 Moons reviewer notes that some audiophiles will dismiss the speaker outright due to the cost and small size. À big mistake he said, you must actually listen to them. He is very enthusiastic about their sound quality.
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