I don't have the answer at my fingertips, but I'm positive that you could tailor the output of your reel to fit this;
https://www.gearogs.com/gear/54893-parks-audio-budgie-tube-phono-preamp
Reel to reel
I’m entertaining the idea of purchasing a reel to reel to record my albums on and also use to possibly soften the digital age a bit. Does anyone know where or if NEW blank tapes can be purchased? Are there any thoughts on a resurgence of R2R and if blank media will become more easily accessible?
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Silly question possibly but.....Often there is. As I mentioned earlier with most consumer decks the output is calibrated to 1 volt. But they can do more than that and there is usually a potentiometer that is used to set the output voltage. You can probably guess where I'm going with this. The problem is volume control but there are solutions for that. With some tinkering you might be able to install a volume control on the deck itself (it it doesn't already have one). |
While achieving your goal of increasing the output would not be too expensive, it will require some brain work and experimentation. https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/blog/voltage-multiplier-circuit.html |
@Uberwaltz, if you choose to pursue Ralph’s good suggestion, you can find the service manual for your deck at hifiengine.com if you register there, or if you are already registered there. It is linked to on this page: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sony/tc-377.shtml On page 20 of the manual (per the page numbering of the manual itself, not the page numbering of the pdf) it is indicated that R316 and R416 on the "Playback Circuit Board" adjust the maximum line level output voltages. A photo illustrates where those pots are located. There is no indication, though, of how much range those pots provide. If your deck is presently adjusted per the procedure the maximum output voltage is 0 dbu, which is only 0.775 volts. And that is with a 100K load impedance; if you are driving a low impedance such as 10K or 20K (10K is the recommended minimum) that voltage would be a bit less. Another possibility I thought about but rejected, btw, would be driving your amp from the deck’s headphone output, using an adapter. However while there is no indication of how much voltage the headphone output can supply, at least one of the two headphones recommended in the owner’s manual has an impedance of only 8 ohms, which I think makes it unlikely that that approach would help. If the deck were designed to drive high impedance headphones the maximum voltage of that output might have done the trick. Best regards, -- Al |
Al Yes I did find Ralph's suggested method to be a good place to start and with the info you have provided it should indeed be possible to see if there is any more voltage to go. As far as headphones go I did think of that as well but as with my easy to drive cans even at full output the volume was still low I discarded it for same reason. This is a project I will undertake tomorrow morning and hopefully the pots are not maxed out. I doubt it as it looks like this deck has seen very little use or even been opened up. Thank you! |
For the last few days, I have been listening exclusively to the reel with tapes recorded at 7.5, and they sound just fine. I've got some new tape ordered, and when it arrives, I'll record at 7.5. Regardless how good 15 IPS sounds, the time is half as much, and the cost is twice as much; I can live without it. Enjoy your reel. |
The more things change the more they stay the same! Sometimes wish I could just stop and settle at one project at a time but alas no! What am I babbling about? I was the member who Ralph shipped the Revox b77 too for just the cost of shipping. I had every intention of placing it into a home worthy case and getting it running correctly and to this end I was communicating with an eBay member in Switzerland who had a stock case. Well one thing led to another and he offered me a mint B77 high speed unit for what I considered a very fair price considering he was shipping it from Switzerland to the USA! So with that being said I feel it is only fair to pass Ralphs B77 onto someone here if they are still interested. Obviously not looking to make any money on it but not looking to lose any either and I did pay $85 to have it shipped so I think that plus actual shipping to you is reasonable? I did manage to check a few things out on it, ff and play seem to work well, one meter does not work, rw is very slow and I had headphone output in both channels so as Ralph said it likely will not take a lot of work. It is in a flight case right now and that is how it will ship inside another cardboard box just for a bit of extra padding. Message me direct if interested and my apologies for possibly taking it from other members in the first place, it was not my intention to have it end up like this. Ok thanks! |
Bottlehead on Bainbridge Island makes some nice preamps just for your intended purpose....and they know great sound being the guys behind the Tape Project Tapes... Uber IMO a nice Revox A-77 is the perfect low end deck you are talking about..they can be had in working shape for $200 ( or less as I recall Ralph just gave one away ).... nice carry handle built in, gentle tape handling, great sound..good enough for the Band and Dylan re The Basement Tapes.... what would you like to talk about ? I use one when scouting a new acoustic space on visit #2, after the Zoom6 |
as far as output level, as several posters already noted, the consumer output level was established as -10db, while the pro level was established at +4 db. so considerable difference. if you plug a pro level deck into a consumer level pre amp, will have to lower the output a tad to make sure you don't overload the input stage. and yes, 1.0volt into a phono input is way too hot for most preamp phono stages..... but if you side step the playback electronics on the deck, you can come off the tape head and go into a phono stage. The eq willl need to be changed from RIAA or NAB or IEC, but the gain will be similar. happy reeling. |
Well one thing led to another and he offered me a mint B77 high speed unit for what I considered a very fair price considering he was shipping it from Switzerland to the USA!A capstan adapter can be used to change the speed on a deck. A number of pro audio decks use this to do 30 inches but it can also be used to go from 7.5" to 15". If you've ever wondered why many machines (such as Ampex) have a threaded hole in the top of the capstan, its there for a capstan adapter. You might run into an issue with equalization but NAB 7.5" and 15" EQ is the same. |
Opened up the Sony today and the output pots were set at approx 2/3 of available span. Did not bother to hook up a meter to check if it was actually 0.78v as still low even if spot on. Cranked them both to max then backed off both a hair and then retried playback. A fair increase in volume relative to volume setting on my amp without any distortion or artifacts I could hear so a win I would say. Thank you Ralph and Al. |
Getting the most out of your reel requires dedication to maintenance. Fortunately it's not at all difficult, but it should be done frequently; what you can't see will hurt you; "magnetism" is something you have to be aware of. I'm a fanatic when it comes to demagnetizing the heads; after every two reels of recording, that's what I do. If you're not doing any recording, and just enjoying playback, this isn't necessary. If you just purchased a reel, buy new rubber rollers; these are essential for high quality recording and playback; also buy rubber roller cleaner, and head cleaner. If my rubber rollers get a little bit shiny, I clean them. These are the things that will guarantee the best results from your reel. Today, I'm going to make two posts, the next will be about how I used the new blank tape that I recently purchased. |
Happiness is a good working reel to reel recorder. Recently, I purchased 4 blank 10 inch reels of tape. Initially I planned to record at 7.5 for the sake of economy, but an audiophile demon caused me to set the speed at 15; "The devil made do it". Recording at 15 IPS causes "hyper awareness, this had better be good"; clean and demagnetize heads, go through record collection, select only the best. As everyone knows, sometime your favorite record has cuts you don't like, be ready to hit the "pause" button. In regard to the results, no matter how magnificent, the playing time was too short; after I got comfortable, and into the music, it stopped. If only I had a butler to put on another reel; or ten machines in a row, plus remote controls to start another machine as soon as the music stopped on the one before. |
Thank you for your thoughts on recording Orpheus10. I believe I will stay with 7.5 ips as well when I make my playlists. 15 ips does use up a lot of tape in a short amount of time. I'm sure the difference in speed will be of little consequence when recording my favorite LP's or HiRez (dsd or flac) music files. Recording a playlist is mainly for convenience and the pure joy I get when I hear my favorite music coming from that big tape deck with the turning 10.5" reels and busy VU meters. Of course, playing pre-recorded tapes at 15 ips is a different animal. I'd guess that speed is required to experience the full dynamic range of a dupe of a Master/Safety master. I finally mustered the courage to order my first one.. once it arrives and I get a chance for a first listen, I anticipate it will either be a revelation or a bit of a let down. But I prefer to be optimistic as most who have experienced a Master tape dupe played back at 15 ips through a proper r2r deck and a system worthy of same, are duly impressed. btw: The recording I ordered I have on LP and CD, so an a/b/c comparison should be fun and quite revealing. It will help me decided if the high cost of this format is worth the entry fee. I will report here when i have experienced my first listen. |
I've been going back and forth between TT and reel today, and discovered something no one else has mentioned. This is specifically in reference to 2 track, not 1/4 track; that's because the head is wider. When comparing tape sources: cassette deck, 1/4 track, and 1/2 track; note the different size tape heads. These heads have different qualities that I call "forcefulness" for lack of any other term. Why this "fact" has not been noted and given a name is beyond me, but I will describe it's effects on audio. The largest, the 2 track heads create a "forcefulness" in the audio that might be akin to a more powerful amp, because it makes the speakers appear to be larger. This more forceful sound also corrects "room anomalies". As I was going back and forth between the reel and the turntable, I had to change the preamp for the turntable. Inna and I have the same problem; one channel sounds louder than the other "from the listening chair". No; one channel is not louder than the other, it just sounds that way because of the room. If you have twin volume controls, one has to be turned up in order to compensate for this. The "forcefulness" of the 2 track reel audio, overcame this "anomaly". When I went back to the turntable, I had to turn the left channel up in order to center the sound stage. The quality I speak of, would be even more pronounced in a reel that used 1 inch or 1/2 inch tape. Is there anyone qualified to speak on this issue? |
The quality I speak of, would be even more pronounced in a reel that used 1 inch or 1/2 inch tape. Is there anyone qualified to speak on this issue?2-track 1/2" tape at 15 inches is amazing. But be forewarned- you won't want to listen to 1/4" tape after that... 1/2" 2-channel is a common mastering format. |
That's the problem, when you hear something which is much better it is hard to go back to your usual sound. It is the biggest reason why I listen to computer with headphones only. Computer cannot compete with my all analog main system. Well, if you get $15k streamer and $20k dac it might approach but still analog is analog. |
2-track 1/2" tape at 15 inches is amazing. But be forewarned- you won't want to listen to 1/4" tape after that... 1/2" 2-channel is a common mastering format. Atmasphere is quite right. I only have a handful of 1./2 inch 2 track 30 IPS masters -stunning. But a 1/4 inch 2 track 15 IPS tape with Dolby SR comes pretty close. |
I can see the dilemma, Inna. This one tape's cost of admission is $200, on sale with free shipping for the sale. I am quite aware that this tape may make it difficult to go back to LP's, but alas, saving for retirement limits that kind of discretionary income purchases to no more than a few a year. The good news is my Yamaha A-S2100 finally arrived and it will inserted into my system and thoroughly tested and "burned in" (I doubt there is such a thing with SS amps, but what do I know?) by the time the 15ips 1/2 track tape gets here... I'm on pins and needles.. :) A review will be forthcoming soon. |
We have been discussing an aspect of R2R that only those who have had considerable experience are aware of, and that is the tape width and head size in relation to the audio. The effect of this is incredible; when you tell someone that it makes your speakers sound larger and more forceful, they respond with disbelief. How do you quantify this phenomenon? There is frequency response, wow and flutter, distortion and noise; but where is this tape width thing quantified? Without a doubt, this takes you beyond the most expensive cartridge, TT, tone arm, phono pre combination. While you need all of that to record to the reel; after it's recorded, the reel takes you a step further. This is a good place to be. |
Actually Orpheus, you really do NOT need to have considerable experience to be aware of that at all. As long as you have knowledge of the some of the workings of analog tape recording and mastering this is something you will be well aware of. Not the same as having to had experienced it yourself for sure. As to the WHY, that I really have no idea of and that I believe is the crux of your questioning yes. |
BTW Jacintha at 15 ips is good, almost as good as 45 rpm.....but for less money because a well tuned B77 Mk3 ihalf track is a formidable beast BTW if hitting your own tape, buy the calibration tape and learn how to adjust your machine...and she will drift..... have fun enjoy the music....or the gain.... or the music |
don't forget, 30ips half inch was the original standard on Ampex machines back in the early 1950s, 15 and 7.5 came later. And yes, 30 ips is very nice. I have a few masters of 1/2 inch at 30 ips, and they do sound wonderful...The big drawback is 10.5 inch reels are not large enough to record more than a few tracks. Its about the same as running 7 inch reels at 15 ips. The tape goes quickly. You really need 14 inch reels, which will hold 5000 feet of tape...or twice what a 10.5 reel holds. Only a few decks out there can handle 14 inch reels though. and with 30 at 1/2 inch you also pick up quite a few db of signal to noise improvement. |
tomic6012,520 posts04-20-2019 12:45amAnybody do the free experiment yet ? tomic601, not sure what you are referring to... I enjoy a good experiment (as long as it's nondestructive to my gear) and free? You have piqued my interest... Of what do you speaketh sir? |
How do you quantify this phenomenon? There is frequency response, wow and flutter, distortion and noise; but where is this tape width thing quantified?Width allows for a wider track, which means the head can have more output. So you get lower noise and greater headroom both at the same time. Higher tape speed allows for greater modulation as well and also gives you greater bandwidth. These things are quite measurable- it should be no surprise they are audible as well. |
orpheus10 We have been discussing an aspect of R2R that only those who have had considerable experience are aware of ... Without a doubt, this takes you beyond the most expensive cartridge, TT, tone arm, phono pre combination. While you need all of that to record to the reel; after it's recorded, the reel takes you a step further.If you really want to know what reel-to-reel can do, record your own music live. If all you do is dub from LP, you have no idea what tape can offer: You're limited by the quality of the LP, and the small amount of noise and distortion that tape will inherently add to it. |
